Gopher74

How quickly we forget last year. It did dawn on me watching the game today that perhaps it was a bad idea to stick with Riske, but it was a 4 run game when he came in, just two days after we blew a 3 run lead with 0 outs. This is the Cubs. I didn't have any problem with him going with Riske for multiple innings. I also don't think Riske's as fragile as some on here seem to think. He's gone in the 70's most of his career, throwing 69 last year likely as much because the Royals weren't winning as anything...not to mention, their pen was probably the strongest part of that team. But man, it's never too early, or going to good to hate on Yostie, is it?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AfjeEZY39Do&feature=related 36 seconds in this one. I don't know, he probably wouldn't have caught it, but I think that it hits his glove. If not, it's withing inches. Either way, maybe, maybe not. I hate the Cubs, not a big fan of men who piss on their hands...while sober, and love Steve Bartmen. Plus, this was 5 years ago. The only cool thing about this story is that it gets Cubs fans going again. Apparently not the "real" ones...which must be about 2 of them.

The replay shows it coming down almost directly over his glove. Go to 18 seconds on the video right there. Now his hands are in the stands,and he may have dropped it, but it definitely wasn't too far in the stands. Edit-Bartman's hands are cupped with the ball in there touching Alou's glove. There's no way you can say that it was too far in the stands.

Ok, I've got absolutely no stake in this, and think it's beyond ridiculous with all the events that happened afterward to blame it on him, but how exactly is a guy who sticks his hand out and touches a ball before it can come down where at the very least it's NEAR Alou's glove had nothing to do with it? Don't understand that one at all. He clearly interfered with the ball. Unless you're saying that other Cub fans would have touched the ball as well. In which case, I'd agree with that. There were a lot of hands in there. It's just sooo sad that our good friend's glove was juuust beneath them. I still cry thinking about that.

A lot of people have made that same claim. That an everyday player will be missed more than a pitcher who throws once a week. And I think Buster Olney has a pretty good idea what he's talking about, whether you agree with him on this one issue or not.

And there it is. I always thought that some people thought they'd be better making the decisions than the Brewers front office, I'd just never seen anyone come so close to actually coming out and saying it. It's amazing that people are better than one of the best teams in baseball in terms of scouting and player development right here in our midst.

I get the feeling you didn't read the link. Sure I did, but I'm quite capable of making my mind up on my own. The link also says that walking the next hitter decreases the chances of a run scoring? So I'm not really getting your point here other than it's some vague insult.... Had this particular link that used 3 years of stats said that the other was true, would that then mean that under no circumstance would it be better to do so?

Yea, he should have come out and said, "I'm sorry for taking steroids" rather than a vague and non-commital apology that everyone with a clue knew was about. That way he could have been suspended. YEA!!! Then I'd really fawn all over him. So what do we have? He signed a contract. Kinda a must, and sure not his fault. 2 and 3 are numbered as such in order to make it seem as though there are really more things to complain about, and he did NEITHER with the Berwers, so I don't know why you'd say this is his "resume with the Brewers". Those are things that happened about 3 years ago now. Let it go. Move on. He's always been a good pitcher save for about 6 innings in Boston(that he was bad, I think it was 18 2/3rd overall. And why I do I suspect that regardless of what he does, you're not going to like him? Moreover, why do I suspect that we're not going to hear much when he has a great month and hopefully half and then year? But hey, he probably should have said, "Oh...golly Mr. Melvin, it's awful nice of you to offer me this 10 million dollars, but I really just want 35 K a year and some meal money". This is baseball. To take it out on Gange? Hmm...

I don't know why you think it was not very close. Alou's glove looked like it would have at least hit the ball. It is very true that if it had not been for Bartman that several other Cubs fans would have touched it. What's also forgotten is that this was Game 6, I don't believe that a run had scored yet, Alex Gonzalez had an error after that, the Cubs gave up several hits, and they lost game 7. But hey, it's easier to blame Bartman. Poor bastard.

No, that's definitely not true. Saying any ball that isn't scooped by the first basemen ends up being an error is like saying any ball that falls in the OF ends up being an error. There is so much more to it than that. For instance, a SS going in the hole who picks it and throws it like Escobar did this year, Prince takes a big stretch and he just can't quite get it as he gets in in between hop. You're telling me in a scenario like this, Escobar would get an error? Definitely not. On routine players, or throws that should be made that the 1st basemen doesn't scoop they'll be called errors, but a high pct of the balls that are missed aren't called errors.

Yea, again, I understand that it's almost always a bad idea. Almost being the operative word. In a 0-0 game on the road with no outs, and your 2-3-4 coming up, it's not. Then it's a very good idea. You play for the one run there. Getting the 3 was huge of course, and ended up being vital, but you play for the 1 first and foremost. A sac bunt in the top of the first inning is obviously a poor idea, but this wasn't in the top of the 1st. I think everyone understands that it's not always a good idea, but clearly there are times where it's just common sense. As for the IBB to Prince, that was also pretty obvious right there. You set up the DP, and you face the right hander with the righty on the mound rather than the lefty.

What, you don't think Matty tried to get his fastball past 'em?

Hell, if Weeks took 2nd, I'd still want Gwynn to move him over there. Probably more so than if he didn't. Then you just need a fly ball to take the lead there. You're playing for one run in a 0-0 game in the 9th. Gwynn has a good game and you translate that into fearing that now Melvin will suddenly rush to give Tony a big long term deal that buys out his arby years and first year of free agency? Yea, I don't know why you'd even think about signing Gwynn long term. Heck, even if he becomes that player that I think it's possible he becomes, he'll never cost a lot of money. I'd have to say that on our list of who to sign to buy out arby years, Gwynn's right behind Jeffress and LaPorta. In other words, it hasn't crossed the Brewers mind yet. It would be nice if the Rangers were convinced that he could be their CF'er of the future and we could pick up a guy like Benoit for him, or Wilson. Sure, we've got a nice pen right now, but I'd take either of those for the long haul.

You're on the road there. Why wouldn't you play for one run? Yea, I understand the idea behind not giving up outs, but there's also times where it just makes baseball sense to move a guy over, especially when you're guaranteeing that at least one of Braun and or Prince are going to get an AB with a RISP. Had Hardy been hitting in the number 2 spot, or even Hart, they would likely have also bunted them over. I agree with who said why can't we just let the kid play for a little while before we make these absolute statements about what his ceiling is or isn't. Yea, I wouldn't hand him a starting spot right now, but, as I argued in another thread, if he's able to hit like he did in AAA, then he's going to be a very solid option to start in CF, and he can do many of the little things quite well for you. It's as if both sides on the Gwynn debate absolutely have to determine what this kid is right now. It is possible for some guys to develop a little bit slower and despite their projections, actually exceed them. Again, not saying he will, and right now, he appears to be a 4th OF'er, but he continues to improve, and may end up being a bigger part of our future than many seem to think.

Gopher74, I'm entitled to my opinion as much as anyone else is to theirs. Never even suggested you weren't. I did call into question riping a guy and essentially calling him an idiot because he cant' throw strikes. I'd imagine there have been quite a few pitchers with good velocity and movement on their pitches who can't always throw it where they want it. What I saw when he was a The Royals are not stocked with exceptional pitching, yet they let him go for nothing. Yea? I'd never argue that they were. And the issue is neither talent nor "stuff." That seems pretty clear, then, where the issue lies. Simple control's not an option? The only other option is that he's stupid? Hmmm... Again, you don't have to agree with me. That's just how I see it. Yea, got it. Again, I'll just stick with control. The kid's 26 years old. I just look at it like he's had control issues like hundreds of other pitchers with talent have had. Namely left handers. But since I don't know him, and don't know a thing about him other than his numbers, I don't have an option beyond the simple fact that he doesn't have control.

What's more important: a)what sportswriters think or b)performance on the field? We're talking about the sports writers who gave Raffy that Gold Glove when he played about 25 games in the field, right? Definitely the sports writers. They know what they're talking about. I mean, they gave Colon the Cy when he clearly was the best pitcher, right?

Woah, I don't know if I'd compare that situation with Braun to this situation with Gwynn. We all KNEW without doubt that Braun was going to be able to hit at the big league level. At this point, we're hoping that Gwynn may develop into a serviceable offensive player, which he has not proven he is or can be at the big league level yet. I think this is a long cry from the Ryan Braun situation last year. In a best case scenario Gwynn has a good 25 games, and then is out of there and likely back in AAA.

Well of course he's still going to try to locate, but I don't see a pitcher trying to be as fine on 3-1 or 2-0 with Cameron for fear of walking him and putting someone on in front of Prince. I don't think protection matters a whole lot for the Princes, Braun's, Pujols' or the world, but I think it does for the guys they protect. Look at Ray Durham's 26 HR's in front of Bonds a couple years ago and tell me that protection doesn't matterhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif Obviously that's just one example to the extreme, but I think it's going to have a large impact on Cameron just like it did on Gross last year(for the short time he hit in front of Prince). ------------------------------------------ http://www.brewerfan.net/images/icons/lock.gifLocked and superseded by a new designated Yost thread: Rotoworld has a memo to Yost --1992casey ------------------------------------------

Hehe...hey, I respect you for trying. I'd have done the same. Though, in all fairness, my sport of choice, the Gophers are among the nations best(Wrestling).

Sadly...yea, average is good enough for 7 million dollars. Jason Marquis coming of a 6+ ERA season got 7 million dollars, so I'd say that we absolutely got 7 million out of Suppan. And how about that other 35? I think it's entirely possible that he not only bounces back this year, but that we don't have to pay him the last couple years. This contract was structured in a way that I believe Melvin always intended to, or at least in the back of his mind held the possibility open to dealing him after the second season. His full no trade turns into a limited no trade to 8 teams, and his salary jumps from years 1 and 2. And while everyone seems so convinced that you're not going to be able to move him, I think that 2 years that'll be left on his deal will honestly won't be that big of a deal to a team like the Mets. I know I keep bringing up the Mets, but I see them as the perfect fit. They were one of the teams that he was initially rumored to go to, and I believe they're going to have some rotation issues behind Santana next year. But in any event, even if it's not the Mets, I believe there will be a handful of teams that will gladly take him off our hands. You're not going to get Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin, but you'll get rid of his contract to possibly re-sign Sheets.

Great post, just a few points- Overbay was a good guy and a solid producer but he didn't have a place to play here and so we took Koskie (a salary dump), Bush (a guy with high upside) and Jackson (a prospect with some upside). Koskie came over from Toronto later on. Gross was the third player in that deal, though some have argued that without the first trade, the second wouldn't have taken place. The Gagne deal, while only for one year, could backfire quickly if he plays like he did the second half of last year in Boston. It could, but the risk is only a one year deal. It's absolutely about as risky as one year can be, but still, it's just one season. I think going into the season without a more established closer like many feared he was going to do would have been a worse idea. The Suppan deal was horrible. I had made the case when it was between us and Pittsburgh that if we couldn't outbid Pittsburgh for his services that it said something about how much money we would spend and how much Milwaukee's prestige as a place free agents want to come to has not increased. I agree that I don't like the deal, but there were a couple other teams in on Suppan. I know the Mets were very interested. As I said, I don't particularly like the 42 over 4, but it can only be a "bad" deal if you overpaid in the market, and when Lilly gets 40/4, Marquis 21/3 and Meche 5/55, it's hard to argue you overpaid for Suppan. Not to mention that we gave up Will Inman and Joe Thatcher for Linebrink who didn't pan out and we may well be kicking ourselves for giving up Thatcher even considering whatever pick we get out of Linebrink signing with the White Sox. I'm of the opinion, you can only regret giving up a situational lefty so much. Yea, right now it looks like we may have given up too much since the move didn't work out and he didn't stabilize the BP like we'd hoped, however you get 2 picks for Linebrink, a Supplemental 1st and then their second rounder with which you can likely grab two players superior to what you gave up, so in that regard, I can't really complain too much about it. Perhaps if we'd known how well Thatcher was going to perform down the stretch for the Padres, we'd have insisted that we throw someone else in, but maybe it was SD that was pushing hard for Thatcher? And based on Inman's AA numbers, I'm not real disappointed we gave him up. I think the one we may end up missing the most is Garrison. Neither has been particularly valuable recently and both have had drug suspensions. Cameron had a little bit of a down 06, but even then he still provided value, and was very solid in 06. I understand that the suspension is hanging over his head, but it appears to be for about as minor infraction as can get you suspended with the prevailing thought being it was a supplement. Mota on the other hand will be interesting. Everything sounds good from the spring, and he looked like he was pretty crisp. If he can come back and have a good year being the 5th guy out of that pen, he could really help this team out a ton. Melvin's succeeded at getting a good year out of a retread in Turnbow but he's self destructed since. This is the part that I have the strongest disagreement over. Turnbow's been a lightning rod for the criticism here, but he hasn't been nearly as bad as fans would like to portray him. Last year he led the league in scoreless innings, and forgive me as these aren't exact numbers, but his ERA in 70 of his starts was something like 1.55 while it was about 77.40 in his other 7. Yost was unable to identify when Turnbow was struggling and left him in the game too long. Certainly some fault has to be laid at T-Bow's feet, however it's a managers job to be able to know your players, and he clearly did not last year. I think where Mota, Riske and especially Torres come in, is giving Yost a few more options to go to when Turnbow starts losing it a little bit this year. He can hopefully have a quicker hook and preserve his psyche as well as the lead. Also, this is a little picky, but Turnbow's been in two organizations, so I don't think the term "retread" is necessarily appropriate for him. Not to mention we have nothing to show for Carlos Lee now that Cordero has moved on. We'll, we've got two drafts picks, a 1st and a 2nd that could very well turn into two key players of the future. Torres may not have a whole lot left. Kendall seemed pretty washed up when the A's gave him up for peanuts to the Cubs last year. Yea, that's a concern as both are in their 30's, Kendall I believe is 33 and Torres 36, but both had very good seasons up until last year where Torres had a little nagging elbow injury and Kendall put up atrocious first half numbers before bouncing back with the Cubs a little bit. Theo Epstein may be the best GM in the game right now and he has made his fair share of mistakes (J.D. Drew/Julio Lugo). Nobody's perfect. I agree. I love what he's done in Boston. He talked about a 100 million dollar player development empire a few years back when Boston and New York were just buying any and everybody they wanted, and he's since developed several key pieces to what is IMO the best team in the league right now, and the defending World Series Champs. I don't know that he's a "better" GM than Melvin per say, but he's got more resources. Melvin's got almost no room for error when he makes a big move whereas Epstein has plenty with his insane moments when he gives Julio Lugo 9 million dollars a year for 4 years, or JD Drew about 14 a year. But when you have Ellsbury, Pedroria, and Lowrie, you can rebound from that awfully quickly.

Kind of like the Minnesota Gophers. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif No, the Gopher's are a terrible team. I hate the Gophers. I was a Badger. Truth is, this name is from another web site when I was thinking about where I was going to several years ago. I went to sign up here, and I put in my e-mail and it said I already had an account on Yuku or whatever it is exactly, so I was stuck with "Gopher". I can't tell you the guilt I feel everytime I post under this name. I feel....dirty....but all the showers in the world don't get that stink off....http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/embarassed.gif

It doesn't matter who is behind them? So for a hypothetical. A pitchers falls behind 3-1 on Cameron and Khalil Greene is hitting behind him. You don't think the chances that he just puts him on and goes after Green are better than if Prince Fielder is behind him? I don't think that's the case at all.

Just to clarify, I'd love to pick him up in a trade, and I do think that we'd have to give up a lot in order to get him, I just took issue with the players that were being suggested(Hart/Sheets). I do think it's interesting that LaPorta was so highly thought of in a very deep Fall League. Too bad he couldn't catch again, huh? That'd be real nasty with him behind the dish, and Cameron still in CF? How bad could he be, right? I mean, hell, we dealt with Estrada's "hustle" for a year.

You can pretty clearly feel the excitement when he speaks, and it even comes through in print, such as with that article that was posted about Jack Z scouting out in Cali. I feel that the expectations for the draft are almost like the expectations for Braun this year. Both have done such a fantastic job, you expect maybe unrealistic things out of them. I'm looking to add 5 or 6 top 25 prospects with Jack Z's abundance of early pickshttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif(I'll let him miss on 1 or 2). I think Melvin is setting Jack Z up for hopefully that same type of situation with Gange's contract, and possibly Sheets. We could find ourselves again having 6 picks in the top 70-75 of the draft next year as well. I just hope if that's the case(which would be a little disappointing because it'd mean Sheets walked) that we still have Zduriencik in charge.