brewcrew7

Condescending to who? I didn't direct a comment towards anyone. Condescending is when you direct a comment towards someone. I said that I couldn't understand the hate for Hart and that they must be fans of another team. There are comments like that all over the forum. I honestly don't know what the problem is here.

By me being dumbfounded and saying that the people who say these things about Hart must be fans of another team? What is wrong with that? I can't disagree with anyone?

There hasnt been a situation on Earth where a restaurant has offered 200k for someone spilling coffee on themselves. If you are referring to the infamous MacDonalds case, the woman in question only asked for compensatory damages for the skin grafts she needed on her lap from the hot coffee that McDonlads was warned was too hot and unsafe previously. It wasnt until they went to trial - for those medical bills - that the jury was so disgusted at McDonalds for not heeding warnings about the fact that their coffee was 20 degrees hotter than what was safe for consumers and basically telling this woman to go pound sand that the jury awarded punitive damages to her as well as her medical bills. She never rejected anything and even in your hypothetical, by rejecting the 200k, she would have risked losing everything, Hart was guaranteed a raise even if he lost I wouldnt call Hart's raise undeserved. He is decent, 20/20 talent isnt readily available off the shelf and a player who is arguably worse than he is - Jeff Francouer - got 5 million. If there is any problem with the arbitration system, it is that besides a player getting his feelings hurt, there really isnt much downside. I cant call Hart greedy. I can call him average, but even an average major league right fielder can get 7 million on the open market.I didn't want to get into this argument but it is completely out of hand. First to label Hart a below average right fielder is wrong. Take a look around the league and see what is out there. In the NL maybe you are looking at Pence, Upton, Hawpe, Werth, Ethier. In the AL you have Markakis, Ichiro, Dye, Abreu. Hart was in the class of some of these guys prior to having a down year that included an uncommon injury. To say he is below average because of this is just wrong. Second, this argument should be over just for the fact the way baseball is setup. Players play for well below what they are worth for their beginning years. The explanation used before should have settled this argument but apparently some people are really upset about this and will not let it go. Fans get mad when a player asks for money during their current contract but when they try to get more once they are open for arby is wrong as well? Is it then also wrong when they try to get the most in free agency and might not accept a solid offer from their current team? Because fans get mad at guys for that as well. But fans also get mad at management when they don't offer enough money to keep guys Or they sell off a player because he is set to make more money the following year. It seems to me that some just like to complain about players or management depending on which way the situation is going. Is Prince going to be a bad guy when Boras begins shopping him around the league for the most money possible and he snubs milwaukee? We are talking about Hart here, and at some point last year this negative vibe has begun with him, and we are talking about a minor raise in the grand scheme of things. Hart has reached his time of arbitration and has an all star appearance next to his name now, and it is one that the people of milwaukee gave him by voting him in. Now they have completely turned on him due to his one bad year and they is just straight hate. I don't get it just always come back to how people feel about a player in good times and in bad. People would have fought to the death about JJ and he had a completely ridiculous year last year. As you can tell I am dumbfounded about the conversation that is taking place here and the people that are bashing him cannot be brewer fans because he has never done anything to piss anyone off and is a great guy. And he is also not a butcher in right like some would like to describe. Again look around the league and look at what is playing right field. I am completely lost as what else to say. My mind is spinning and can't understand at what some are looking at with this talk. Having the appendectomy was his fault and he is now a terrible person becasue of it. And no player on the brewers besides him had any bad stretches last year? Everyone has bad times. And that includes Prince and Braun. But that is always overlooked because of all the good they do. Sorry, everyone cannot be elite and every team has average players on their team.

Hart + Hawkins without question. Solid bullpen arm and a solid RF. Cameron is getting up there in years and as we saw he goes through some very tough times as well. But he is a player that is liked so he doesn't get the same heat for some reason. Hart as least had surgery. Cam was flat out bad for stretches the last couple years.

4th and 5th place teams in the conference and both ranked teams. And the home team wins. Who would have thought? Good one.

My question with these topics is, do posters on the internet fully understand what goes into an arbitration hearing? And the answer is probably not. Players make lower salaries until arbitration and then slowly get an increase based on performance. I don't find it hard to believe that Hart won the case. He is still making a very manageable salary for a starting player. Had he had a good year last year he would have made even more. And I believe he can do more than the broken down options that some are saying he should be replaced with. If we remember back a year plus, this guy was a player with quite a few tools. Now he has a down year and we are ready to throw him away because he is making over 4 mil. I seem to think this is a bit rash and look for him to do some good things this year.

I cannot believe this is getting this much of a reaction. It's not a ton of money and don't really care what he gets paid. He had a bad year. Move on. JJ Hardy was a complete joke last year and people used every excuse and gave him every chance possible. Even when he was traded there was still a group that was upset we cut ties. And JJ will make 4.6 this year. What's the difference? Hart isn't the heart throb JJ is? Hart can at least run a bit and create something if allowed to. Again, I can't understand the outrage for a small amount of money that is not yours.

Still waiting on those conference lists from you. Otherwise, please just stop talking about the Big Ten.http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html Well here is all you should need to know. I told you they would not do very well if they stepped up to another conference and if the top teams in this conference lose a few more games the conference could fall below the A10 or the mountain west. The big ten is a battle but that is because it's an average conference.

Ya they never talk about Michigan St. Give me a break. And Purdue gets some credit as well. But the big one, Indiana, could be an average team and they would be blowing them up. And besides those two, what is there really to talk about the Big Ten? Lucky they are even talking about these two.

Why is Illinois now a serious team now because of this win? They are tied for first place. I think this is where the dillusion comes in. They beat Bucky, on their home floor, and are ahead of them in the standings. How did today make them a contender but Bucky was this great team already? And how am I trolling? Because I know that teams in the Big Ten, Duke, N. Carolina, W. Virginia, and Texas are teams that are not really that good? I think people watch a bit more ESPN than they should. Have a thought of your own. The media likes the big names to have good years and just kills the topic. Heck, they are still talking like Carolina is on the bubble. 13-10 and 2-6 in conference. That is how bad the media is these days. None of these teams are any good and will not provide any excitement come tourney time. And for what it's worth, I don't think Kentucky will make that deep of a run. Just so I have it all out there. We will see how I do come tourney time but I have done pretty well in the past and I will be back and own up to these predictions.

Tonight pretty much tells you what the big ten is. A big mess of average teams fighting it out. The badgers dropped to 5th in the conference today. That is how slim the margin is of being a good team and being a second thought. They will lose another game and that will kill their NCAA seed. But none of these teams will not scare anyone come tourney time.

Ok if you want a list go to each of those conferences and take the top 5 teams. If the badgers had to play a schedule in these conferences they would not be in the top 5. That is the list. I watch college basketball more than any sport and before the season, if all of you were polled, you would not have picked the badgers very high, just as most of the so called experts. Now, just because they are near the top of the big ten, there seems to be this idea that the badgers could go to the final four. I will say they are playing better than expected but the big ten is a bit down from what they expected as well. Mich St has gotten hammered by a few teams, Purdue went on their run of losses, and Wisconsin is what is being debated here. And I believe they are simply a good team but nothing special. And as Bruce has said, I was not discussing last year or any other year. But you can be sure not to book any spots for any of these teams in the final four this year. Be happy you get one or two to the sweet sixteen and call it a year.

I don't need to list. My stance has been that they would not finish top 5, this year, in either of those leagues. They have played a few tough games this year and have only won a couple of them at home and lost everyone on the road. And now they have nobody else to play until the tourney. Must be nice to have a month long bye.

No I am not saying that. But none of them are going to make that deep run or have anyone shaking in their boots. And I will love to hear that when you have those teams in the sweet sixteen, which I doubt will happen. But it's also glad to know that the big ten is excited to get a few teams to the sweet sixteen, which means you beat a couple of very average teams. Unless you are a low seed. So I guess the expectations of fans is the same as mine, low.

So because they beat one team, at home, they would finish well in a different league? Now that's funny. And if you are going to use the Mich St win, they lost their best player durng the game as well. Not that they were going to win anyways. All teams lose guys so stop making excuses. It doesn't matter if all Big Ten teams had all their guys, they are not a threat to win anything this year in hoops.

I don't know where the Big East debate came from either but Wisconsin would not finish top 5 in either the Big 12, ACC, or Big East. Sorry to burst your bubble. But in any conference you are going to have some awful teams at the bottom and seeing the Big East is so large, you are bound to have a few in there. But overall I don't see how you look at the Big Ten and say that it is a grueling schedule. The teams play very hard and good team basketball but that is because they are all below average athletically. Which usually means they are not serious threats in the end.

Well first of all we are talking about this year. And second, you mean the team that was not even competitive in that game? Anyways, I know I am working with a bucky bias here but look wherever you want and the Big Ten is, at best, the 3rd best conference. And I have seen them below that. Can you really take the Big Ten seriously? Iowa, Northwestern, Penn St, Indiana, and Michigan are byes and Illinois and Minnesota are just above them. The conference is Mich St, Purdue, Ohio St, and Wisconsin. And if you asked anyone before the year, the badgers were not going to be very good. But beating up a bunch of crappy teams has people believing I guess. And the badgers beat the better teams at home and lose to them on the road. They are playing great at home but are just not that great of a team. All of the big ten teams are simply not a factor when you talk about getting deep in the tourney. Who out of this group could win 5 or 6 in a row against good teams? None

Especially if Lucas is out for any significant time for Sparty. They've got a bunch of good players, but he's their leader. Especially since the big ten is simply an average conference and really won't matter as far as the big dance. Yes, they beat Mich St, but what does that say? State has lost to all the goor or semi good (Carolina) teams they played. The badgers are a surprise but doing well in this conference does not say alot.

If Melvin had gone after Vazquez instead of Wolf, he would have spent more money for 2010 and would have had to give up talent. All for a year when the Brewers hope to be competitive, but aren't in a year where they should really think about going for it. Now this is well said. We need to shed these bad contacts and try to have a good year. But taking on Vazquez and his money this year plus giving up players is silly. Plus seeing Wolf deferred money this year makes everything a bit clearer. But in the end I think Vazquez has been blown up into a great pitcher while Wolf is looked at as a middle of the road guy. These two are much closer than people like to think. If Vazquez is so great why is he always moving to another team?

I don't understand what all the fuss is about here. Most would complain if we gave up a bunch for a rental player again even if it is for garbage. And the difference between Wolf and Vazquez is not that great. Doug has looked at every pitcher that was on the market and was rumored to be shopped. Sometimes you just don't have anything a team wants. He had to move before the market started moving and players were gone. He saw a good option and had to make a decision. If he didn't get Wolf and waited, and then was unable to get Vazquez, things would really get ugly on here. We can still make a move and things may change a couple times in the next month or two. I just think it is a bit early to tell yet and to bash Melvin for not getting a one year rental is a bit silly.

I'm fond of the career 3.39 ERA and 1.24 WHIP. Spectacular pitcher. The difference between a special player (Harden) at a team-friendly contract (1 year, $7.5 per) and a pedestrian player (Wolf) at 3 years, $9 per is such a monumental difference. It's like the deals happened in two totally different environments, yet they happened on the same day. I can't fathom it. Paying a premium for 200 innings of merely average/good pitching instead of much, much less money for 140 innings of very good pitching makes no sense to me. We'd be far better off right now if we had Harden at 2 years, $14 million than we are with Wolf at 3 years, $30 million. It's heartbreaking. If your idea of a special pitcher is Harden you need to watch some more baseball. A guy who can only go 5 innings is not special. He does walk and strike out alot of guys and can be special at times. But with our budget we cannot committ 7.5 to a guy we will only have in the rotation for 75% of the year and that might be a high estimate. And I think everyone got tired of our poor starting pitching killing the bullpen last year. We do not need a 5 inning pitcher that is for sure.

People are always going to overvalue their players. JJ would not bring any pitcher worth while and that is fact. So we traded for a cheaper position player so we have some money for a potential pitcher. I have always said that in our size market we need to have as many cheap options in the field and a majority of our money needs to be spent on pitching. We have two studs in the lineup and I really could care less who else is in the lineup. At least we will have some speed and can maybe create some runs that would not have been there with JJ clogging up the bases. Pitching wins and we need to clear money in order to get some of it. This is the beginning of it. Whats not to like?

I am fine with the trade as well. Reading thru this thread is migty tough. I have no idea what people were expecting the crew to get but they are putting JJ's value much higher than it should. From the reaction in here you would think we were expecting a top notch player for him. Teams know that we wanted to get rid of him and he had an awful year. We were not in the best position. And one thing that really got in the thread. People are thinking JJ is so good but then are ripping Melvin for not knowing the right time to deal him. So what your saying is that JJ is a good player but Melvin was supposed to know that he was going to suck? Geesh. Must be easy to sit and say all this stuff after the season. However Melvin has to do it while it is going on. I think we did just fine here and got a young player and saved some money. We had no use for JJ so what were we going to get? But Weeks, Escobar, and Gomez could do some damage on the bases if they can get on base. Should make it interesting at least.

You have to remember that you deal with people who are alot more casual of fan and that can cause them to make opinions that will stick with them for a long period of time. That is why you have some who ripped Prince last year and any other player who does poorly for a stretch. In this situation there are still a large group who will love JJ to the death. I know a bunch of them and they still thought he was just amazing. It all depends on what colored glasses you wear. I look at each player as an individual and dont really have a favorite brewer. But I love your example as he is definately a guy who never really did anything amazing at the plate. I like Escobar for his speed and defense alone. And for those who say if he ever gets on base. It doesnt take a many hits to hit like Hardy has and he should be a great baserunner. Not sure how that alone should be good enough to give him a go here. Can't wait to see him.

This shows me how much love there there still is for Hardy. People are banging away on Kendall, Hall, Hart but still say this is a dumb move. Regardless of service time you have to produce and he has been nothing short of awful. This should of been done some time ago but they were trying to build some value for him but it never came. Seeing he wasn't going to be our SS next year, I think we need to get Escobar some playing time at the big league level to get him somewhat prepared for next year. We tried to wait but enough is enough already. Finally we decided to look past the money and get rid of players based on performance. I now have renewed interest to at least watch the remaining games even if we have little chance of making the playoffs.