slappzilla

Segura was MLB ready too. So was Thornburg. not

The Brewers are still a small market team. Stop the nonsense. Doug made that clear in that Bill Michaels interview. I don't know Corey Hart very well, but I do actually know his wife and kids, as I mentioned before they live in the same neighborhood as my parents and my parents live right next to the park where his wife and kids are always hanging out. My kids have played with his kids twice there, and I talked to Mrs. Hart both times. Never asked her anything intruding, just talked about the kids and the neighborhood and stuff like that, but I know she likes the neighborhood. The park they play at was just put together last year and she raves about how much fun her kids have there. I met Corey when I took my kids trick or treating there two years back and I've met him at a local restaurant. Just shook his hand and had minor convo. He comes off has a big family man. Like him and his family, but I've said this all before at nausea... I still think Hart goes where the $$$ is, even after what I said above. Just sayin...

With the news posted today (or last night?) about Greinke saying he misses Milwaukee and more news about Hart saying he wants to stay, I am actually coming around (just a bit, not alot, settle down) on the possibility that maybe one or both sign with the Brewers on the cheap. I'm still sticking with my guns on the whole "everyone says they like it here and want to come back but go after the $$$ when it comes down to it" mindset, but as more comes out about these guys supposedly really wanting to stay in Milwaukee, it's tough not to buy into it just a little. I maybe breaking my own rule and being naive though. Probably am.

here we go again...

yeah, as much as I keep saying next year is a "see what we have" year and not really a contending year, my post above sure makes them look like contenders if they fix the bullpen.

Someone erased the thread I started so I will just put this here I guess... Let's pretend I told you that at the beginning of the 2012 Milwaukee Brewers season, come Aug 28th... - Brewers pitching would be handedly leading MLB in strikeouts come Aug 28 - Brewers would be 4th in MLB in steals - Brewers would be 1st in the NL in HR's - Brewers would be 3rd in the NL in OPS - Ryan Braun would have 35HR's and a .985OPS - Aramis Ramirez would have 20HR's and a .890OPS - Corey Hart would have 24HR's and a .833OPS - Lucroy would be batting .332 with a .936OPS - freakin GoGo would have a .773OPS with 27 steals Now, if I told you all that, then followed it up with the question "where do you think the Brewers will be in the standings on Aug 28th?", what would you say? Of course you'd assume they crew had the division, right? Freakin bullpen, unreal.

Looper! WINS

was that supposed to be in blue? Didn't he turn down a bigger contract than that from us already?

That's nice how much you buy into what Hart said. It will be cool if you're right and he signs on the cheap. Won't be logical at all, and it won't follow any common pattern pertaining to the topic, but it be cool.

There's no difference, sorry. I'm not going to be naive to the fact. Again, if he signs on the cheap, awesome, I will love it, but to expect him to or to assume him to because of his PR rants seems more wishful thinking. Braun did it, and it honestly shocked me, so it's not like it's never happened before, but I just don't see Hart turning down millions of dollars to stay in Milwaukee. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not going to think different because Hart is following the leads of other big name FA's that said they liked Milwaukee and would like to stay here.

^ this He is insinuating that I did, but I didn't. I just said that in 2013 with a bunch of young guys in the rotation, there's just too many xfactors to expect the team to be a legit playoff team. In my mind, if just one of the young SP's pans out next year, along with Gallardo and Fiers, 2014 will be looking awesome, but you need to give those guys the opportunity next year to sink or swim first. Not giving them the opportunity and signing a FA or trading for a SP could very easily lead to what Monty is getting at. Maybe 2 or even all 3 of them (Peralta/Rogers/Thornburg) pan out nicely next year and the Brewers seriously contend, that would be awesome, but I think it's a bit too much to ask for or to assume for.

Why not see what you have in your min wage farm guys first? Who says Peralta/Thornburg/Rogers couldn't turn out to be studs like Fiers has shown? Trade or pay big $$$ for a big time FA and just not even give the young arms a chance? Not a very smart move at all for a small/mid-market team. After we see what we have in those guys in 2013, I'm all aboard with trading and signing FA's to fill whatever holes have to be filled, but in 2013, I want to see what we have with our tendered guys. Even if just one of them pans out big time it's huge. Imagine if two of them pan out? Think of the money that can be saved on an SP that could go to a lineup bat or somewhere else?

So what do you think Doug is going to do then? Let the young arms sit in Nashville and sign Greinke and Marcum? What doug said makes sense, that's why I'm going with it.

Ditto. I want the young guys to get out there next year so we can see what they got. Then in 2014 Doug can add however many SP's he needs too for a legit playoff run. Adding FA SP's for 2013 just means the Brewers will still have a bunch of unknown xfactors sitting in Nashville who are ready to come up.

..and that's exactly what I think Doug is going to do going off that interview he did with Bill Michaels.

No, but if you want to dismiss this, you DO need to go through a list of players who have gone so far out of their way to make it public that they'd take a under market contract for a shorter period of time(two years? If he has another good year next year, 30 HR's, .270/.340-ish, he'd get 4-5 years at 60 or so million) and THEN talks about how getting every last dollar isn't important. You take one line about how he wants to stay in Milwaukee and then you say, "pftt, others have said the same as well," totally ignoring the rest of the...really over the top stuff he says about staying here. If anyone's EVERY sounded sincere about staying here, it's Hart. He's come out and said it only has to be two years and he's not looking for every last dollar, AND that he wants to be one of the rare guys to stay in Milwaukee. It's almost like this incessant need to take everything and try and make it as negative as possible. You are still on record as saying we'll cut payroll nearly 30 million next year, right? Even with another 30 million coming into our revenue stream(at the very least)? CC, Prince, and Greinke all said it, but they didn't sound as sincere as Hart (according to you) so they don't count. Ok. You can buy into the "really over the top stuff he says about staying here" all you want. I'm just going to stick with the trend and base my opinion off that. If Hart actually signs for a discount, then the sincerity is indeed legit, and it will be great for the Brewers. The track record of guys saying they want to stay put, and hinting at taking a home town discount in order to stay put - who actually do so, is few and far between. Tough to treat Hart any different. I agree with this. If he actually does sign for a discount, I'm all about keeping Hart aboard, but even at market value (because of how jacked up the market is) I think the Brewers should pass on him (or more/less deal him) because of what they have in waiting.

Hey, if he signs on the cheap that's awesome. Usually the $$$ wins though. I don't have to go through the lists of other guys who said they wanted to stay in Milwaukee.

don't act like I said what? that I didn't think they would compete next year? I've said it 100x over. There's never been a change on opinion. I've never changed my stance. Search for whatever you want. I don't think they will compete and I've given my reasons at nausea on why. I think it's a "see what we got" year and sets us up to compete in 2014 and beyond. That's been my stance on the issue the entire time. The only difference in me saying "WE WON'T COMPETE NEXT YEAR" and "I DON'T THINK WE'll COMPETE NEXT YEAR" is context. If you want to push context, go ahead.

I don't think you got my drift at all, or you purposely didn't quote that whole quote to try and make it sound like I insinuated something I didn't. Here is the entire quote from the Wolf thread said post stemmed from another poster challenging me on this post... If you absolutely had to make a call one way or the other on whether or not the Brewers will be contenders in 2013 or whether they won't, what would be your call? Can they? of course they can, but would you assume they will going off of what you know now (going off what Melvin said) as far as who will be in the rotation and what will be on the field? No one said "2013 Brewers have absolutely no shot at contention". I didn't at least. Not having Greinke is hardly my reason either.

It never changed.

so you don't take Melvin seriously when asked about the rotation next year he said he was going to see what the guys in the farm system could do? I'd sort of consider that rebuilding, no?

I like how you bolded "CANNOT" as if I said there's no shot at all. Go back and read my post again. I simply said that if I had to pick the Brewers as either being a team that will contend next year, or being a team that will not contend, I would pick them as being a team that won't contend due to what Melvin has said regarding how the team will look next year with the young arms in the rotation. Could they pull it off and become contender, sure, but I truly don't see how any informative Brewer fan could come to the conclusion that they are more of a contender next year than a non-contender if you had to pick a side. If the bullpen is expected to be league average, I still don't see the Brewers has contending in 2013 because of the unknowns in the rotation. They will be a .500 team next year I think. If you think .500 means they're a contender, that's fine, but I don't.

next year - equal offense, weaker rotation due to unknowns (no one knows what young arms will do), and an unknown bullpen = not a team I consider a contender. You can say the bullpen will be better if you want to play the "well they can't get any worse" card, but the fact of the matter is the bullpen is just as much of an unknown as the rotation. To assume Doug will go out and sign a shutdown bullpen is asking a bit much to say the least. In 2013 the unknowns become knowns, and then in 2014 Doug fills whatever voids we have and then the Brewers seriously contend.

I like Hart. He lives in the same neighborhood as my parents. I've met his wife and kids many times along with him. I love him in the 5 spot in the lineup. I love his power bat in the lineup. That being said, it's kind of tough to give him the long term deal with Gamel and Morris in the system. The OF spots seem to be covered as well if you want to go that route. As a small/mid-market team, you have to do what's right for the team. Signing Hart to a 5 year $65-$75M deal is not what's best for the team considering the team seemingly has the positions he plays covered for the future for min wage. I'm not saying Gamel or Morris are a lock to hit for the same stats as Hart, but I'd bet either can come close enough to where resigning Hart just is not worth it. It just makes too much sense to trade him in the offseason or before the deadline next season due to what the Brewers have in their system.

As an informed Brewer fan, did you think the Brewers would contend this year? Just curious. yes, I did. I actually thought this years team would be better than last years team, as dumb as that comes off now. I didn't see the bullpen being so ridiculously bad nor the injuries of course. Not making excuses, just saying...