SoupTown

To be honest, there should be three errors on the play. Castro's error gets him to 2nd, Rizzo's nap gets him to third, Rizzo's throw gets him home. How can you score an error to Rizzo for refusing the pick the ball up and look back toward the infield. I mean how do you write it. Because letting Shaf just run from 2nd to 3rd on 'indiffernence' IS an error.

Interesting that Doug today said we have been a .500 team for a while. And .500 teams make the playoffs in NBA and NHL... but not MLB. So, it seems, hopefully, that Doug's goal is not for us to be happy to be a .500 team.

I read the full conversation and was interested in Doug's shortest term for a rebuild (4 years). He says if you dont start soon enough you end up with a six year rebuild. And it seems they cannot start until 1 July, give or take. As other teams dont want to take on salary. HINT TO DOUG: if you pay some of the salary, you can get the players traded sooner. So, it seems to me, that Doug is setting himself up for a 'relax' from 1 July 2015 to 1 July 2019. Nothing expected from him in terms of results. In any case, when we are thinking about who to trade and who to keep, you can see if Doug does rebuild, his time frame is that we will be good starting in 2019 for a couple of years. So, when we propose A and B and C, then dont think about 2017 or 2018. Well, I think we can be FUN from next year. 2016-2017 young and cheap and high upside prospects. So I think we can be good in 2018. Doug gives himself to 2019. And Doug did indeed throw Mark under the bus: 'Mark has never been through this before, so...' Note that Doug said he thought 2011 and 2012 was our last window. Well if you add Doug's 4 years to 2012, then you are in the game in 2016/2017. But Mark got way involved in 2013 and 2014. Doug has indeed driven the bus over the inexperienced Mark. Why oh why did Mark not just trust Doug. Hmmmmm. Doug's bum well and truly covered, hey.

Paul, I interpret the quote quite differently. To me, it is realistic, in a mid or a small market/payroll, to run the franchise on waves. That is, you peak, then you cannot afford to keep all your wonderful players. So you trade them for prospects. If you do it correctly, 50% of the time you are in your window, and 50% of the time your team is not in the window... BUT, that not window should be fun to follow... as it should be full of young, high upside, cheap talent. Doug is pretty much saying (I think) what I just wrote. What concerns me is that his actions do not match, in any way, shape or form, what he says his thinking is. We seem to think (likely from Mark's interference) that we can get the left overs of free agency and use the left overs past glories to plug into our predictive spreadsheet and we will have a winner. The more I think about Mark the more worried I get. Was he not the front runner for Suppan. Yet Suppan's career was much more modest than his series MVP. Yet we paid for the MVP - not the career. Later when we buy guys that has a down year, it is because their career prior was good. I dont get it. Which is it? And the more I think about Doug's quote... he has actually thrown Mark under the bus. Doug' realistic wave approach or Mark's spreadsheet we can win every year approach. I do have some Enron shares left over. If Mark looks at what they did year after year - and averages it out - I think he will want to make me an offer.

I was on board with our management team's assessment of our situation. I mean they convinced themselves, the fans, and me that the team was constructed well. The swan dive of September was a one in a million fluke. Well, management were completely wrong in their assessment. They should admit (at least to themselves) that they completely misjudged. The problem then, is we have a management group that do not know how to evaluate talent, plan for the future, spend money wisely. Now, if this team were travelling really well, then the management group could pat themselves on the back. I posted pre season, if this 25 man did well, then great... as 2015 players are almost all here for 2016. But, we have seen this squad of players is not capable of competing. It is beyond a cold streak. What is odd, is I do not know how to explain how the entire team was HOT at the end of spring training. Then when day 1 of the season came, they ALL became cold (except for Lind). What is with that. Is there some motivation problem in the organisation? Anyway, back to my sad point. Have any of our management team succeeded in their jobs? I was prepared, this one last time, to give them a fresh look. But this management team have produced the same old same old. An old, expensive, declining talent, losing team. And we somehow expect the same group that got us here to get us out. Doug Melvin has been doing this job for decades. What does his CV look like? With Mark, we might as well simply put Boras on the management team and give him GM authority for signing old, washed up, expensive vets. RRR. The players like him. I wonder how they feel now that RRR is throwing them under the bus. Our management's cry that 'we have assembled a good team, but it is up to the players to perform'. So Broxton is choosing to not be his old, cant touch self. ARAM is choosing to not play like a 28 year old ARAM. Management have declared the PLAYERS are the problem. How does the saying go. A poor tradesman blames his tools. Well the players are the tools our tradesman management chose to use. So management blames the tools. Even though management chose these tools. Let us see what happens. Are we going to rebuild properly. Or are we in store for five years of .400 baseball with management blaming the players. And our management team is so thick together - they are the ones who decide if they should have jobs and how much they should be paid. I hardly think they are going to fire themselves. Yet they should.

Thanks for the Rogers comment, Brew4U. Generally one can 'see' if a guy is overwhelmed or 'fits in' in The Show. It seems your call is that he fits him. So, he should play. He is a first baseman. They should trade Lind. Lind is the bright spot for us, this year, but we dont need it this year.

I agree there are more players than those 'listed' that can be / should be traded. Lind should be a great get for somebody. Garza is NOT overpriced. He is a solid get for a team. I am excited to hear Parra mentioned. I dont know why Gomez would be mentioned but not Lucroy. KRod is a good get, honestly. I am surprised Davis is mentioned. I would like to let go every player that does not have possible high ceiling. Garza I keep as we can have him through 2018, I think. And he can flash brilliance. He does have a no hitter, does he not. Maybe I think somebody else. If you dont think Scooter has a high ceiling, you trade him as well. I sure hope Mark does not do a 'part rebuild'. Let the entire team consist of youngsters for the next two years and see who sticks. Heck, we did not even 'find' Davis until RRR was forced to play him. I really love my boyhood team (these Brewers). And we not need be afraid to prune. It is win win. Our vets go to teams who are good and want them. And we get the future. Right now all is terrible. Our team is playing terrible. The players surely dont like it. AND we have no hope for the future. AND we are paying $105 mill payroll. ouch, ouch, ouch, and ouch

Our management have ear marked the aging, overpaid, down trend vets. The only team that would value them to give up something for is.... the Brewers. Our only hope is some teams are desperate for an average contributor to fill a gaping hole. Then we get a couple A prospects. Sort of like the Bandera - A ball 'maybe' we gave for Parra. And it looks like we gave away quite the talent. So, when you are trading old vets, it is a lottery who you get. I actually wish they would add Gomez, Lucroy, Segura, Scooter, Lind to the list. I will be insane with sadness if we decide to do a 1/10th rebuild.

I am excited to get an eyeball opinion from a respected poster here - TheCrew07. He says the eye shows this guy is the best CATCHER he has seen in Wisconsin for a few years. So I take notice. No guarantees, but let me add SOLLVVVDDD to Brew4Us WOOOOOOHOOOO

splitter, the sadness is this: their plan was all the guys they signed would have average career years and they would be contenders My plan is to jump from super model to super model - and have each of them pay me a few million because after I have decided their looks and nocturnal performance (heck, even daylight performance) is not satisfying to me. And they must pay for not being what I desired. Is my plan realistic? Was Doug's (no holes in this team) and Mark's (everybody will do career norm even though they are old and/or untested) and RRR's (I like this team, I really like it) plan realistic.

The problem we have is that I dont think our management have any plan. Are we punting 2015... well, not yet. Are we punting (full rebuild in 2016 and 2017)... well who knows until we have decided what to do with 2015... which we dont know and have no plan. We are in wait and see mode. Note that Mark says he ran a spreadsheet taking the guys average MLB production to work out that we were a contenting team for 2015. ARAM he expects to return his career average. Same with Braun. Same with Lohse. Mark does not seem to have much understanding of how baseball players perform... even to the extent that most have peak years (that 26 to 29 year old range). So he is waiting for ARAM, Brauny, Lohse to go on a one or two month tear... as, of course, their end of year numbers MUST be their league average. Are we SURE this guy is a successful business man? Does he not buy business low and sell high. Why does he not think Apple and IBM and GE and FORD will do the exact same thing year after year? So, before one knows what actions to put in motion, ones goals must be laid out. I think I even read about Lucroy, himself, wondering of he was a trade piece, since he is only here two more years. My plan is is to punt 2015 and 2016. You flood the 25 man roster with as much young, possible talent as you can. And you see what sticks. And you hope in 2017 you have a couple of the oldies left (Lucroy, Braun, even Garza!) and a few youngsters that have blossomed (Clark, Rogers, Sardinas, Kneble, etc) and a few newbies that have killed it in the minors for a couple of years (Arcia, Coulter, Wang, etc) - and are rookie ready in 2017. That is my plan. And what the heck is this about HAVING to spend ALL MY MONEY ($105 mill) EVERY year. Cant we be cheap for 2015 and 2016, then back to the $105 mill in 2017, then in 2018 and 2019 spend like $130 mill because we saved $30 mill year in 15/16. I just do not get the NON PLANNING and ROSE COLOURED GLASSES our management do and wear.

Segura I think is 0 for his last 9. But I am not sure how he has 'looked'. But went from .330 to .270 in a hurry. I really would like them to trade him ASAP. I dont think he will be a future all star. He will be an average MLB shortstop. I think we have three of those at least behind him with no service time. Thanks for Jimenez comments. He needs to play a bit to see if he can bat. But if he LOOKS really bad, well... he wont be able to bat. So he must go. I had high hopes for him. But we gotta play some young guys to find out who will be useful in 2017 - 2019. This year and 2016 are going to suck. So we need to suck young and suck cheap. And we have these two year to really work out who can play. We must find a couple or three all stars, somehow, somewhere. Now if Braun actually returned to over 850 ops, then great. Honestly, I hope Doug and Mark are not treading water to 'see' what will happen. Gallardo trade was very, very good. We need three or four of those ASAP. HOPE for the future covers losses. If we lose with old, washed up... or soon to be gone guys... well that is STUPID.

Can we change the thread title from worst contract.... to best contract. I have done the maths, and if we rest Brauny 2 games a week (that seems to be the key) and let him play four, and he hits 6 home runs in those four, he will be about 80 homers for the year (playing the four days a week). Let me see.... 20 weeks left x 4 = ... yes, that seems to be 80. 80 homers a year until 2020. Lucky us.

Why do all the pitchers we face pitch so well?

Braun says he is 100% now. He has said that multiple times recently. I find it odd RR sat him (I think on Ryan's request) a couple of days in a row. Now, we will never know REALLY the facts. So I propose we just view the evidence going forward. If Braun returns to even 90% Braun the evidence will show one thing. If Braun ends up being the Scooter of right field (no offense to Scooter intended)... well, the evidence shows another thing. .700 OPS vs .800 OPS. That is my deciding criteria... for me. I guess the bugger will put up .750 OPS for the next 27 years he is signed for, and the evidence will prove nothing. (please let me allow performance future to be my evidence)

Segura has shown he is quite a good D shortstop. And he has most value there. So if we have two shortstops, we get more value by trading one, rather than moving him to 2nd base.

I am trading Segura and Scooter as soon as decent prospects can come back for them. Sardinas goes to short and Rivera to 2nd. Arcia moves up to AAA. If you cannot trade Scooter (he plays bad on return) you option him back to AAA. Your next goal is to trade one of Sardinas / Rivera / Scooter (assume he was optioned back to AAA) off season Then Arcia becomes the shortstop from sometime in 2016 - even after the first couple of weeks. Whoever is 'left' from Sardinas/Rivera/Scooter is your 2nd baseman. Rogers / Clark are your platooning first baseman (both can play left field also) Jimenez is your third baseman... if no good, you just cut him. I assume at least one prospect we got back will be a third baseman. Now you have a cheap, with some high ceiling infield from 2016 to 2022. And, of course, if better guys end up coming through the minors, you trade and reload year by year until you see some hope. I sure hope we get a catcher prospect as well in trading Segura / Scooter / ARAM / Gomez / Davis / Lind / Lucroy.

I would contend, lcbh, there will be quite a link between Mark's money, Braun's contract, Braun's performance, the amount left to the rest of the team for salary AND...... your entertainment. In short, Braun cheating the club will cause your entertainment to be less for the next six years. re Brauns salaries, have you ever heard of the pre arby, arby, and free agent periods of a player's career. Look it up.

folly412: "and there isn't even young talent to watch develop" This is my anger. I assume Davis and Scooter will be averagish, low ceiling guys. Useful and if they can have great character - very valuable. Nelson we love because 'maybe' he will be really good. He is worth watching. Maybe Peralta.... but we end up with so few young, high ceiling hopefuls, that overall is little hope. Can you get behind ARAM or Lohse or Broxy or KRod for the future. Even Gomez and Lind and Lucroy and Maldy 'expire' in two years - so they only exist for us to get a prospect. Seggy, I think three years. I am not going to lay out what our management should do, IMO. Because they have already said what they are going to do... they are going to do nothing. They have clearly said 'this is our team, now it is up to the players'. So get used to seeing THESE players. And get used to going to the minor league forum and the link report.

I am a lot like you. He was a big fav of mine. Then I was line ball (after the PEDs). I conned myself into thinking the PEDs were a one off to fix some niggles. Yet, we have now have a $20 mill year player that could be replaced by any AAAA guy. If this year continues as it has started, and next year Braun plays similarly, I would actually CUT HIM and wear the cost and make a STATEMENT. However the three bozos in charge of this franchise currently would not have the nerve to make such a move.

And Mark said (paraphrase): 'there is nothing we (he, Doug, RR) can do at this stage; we have set the team; we have our players; it is up to the players to perform to their career norms'

I only now read the Mark Fly In Interview closely. I cannot believe the owner can speak so long about a serious situation and not give one intelligent insight. What scares me is the calculations Mark talks about that 'proves' the 25 man team is a very good team. He talks about career averages. And how MLB players do the same performance year after year. On that basis, he has used the wee calculator to -expect ARAM to have career average year -expect Braun to return to his career norms -expect Broxy to pitch like he did when he was a world beater And on it goes. So now you know why the Brewers, year after year, end up with vets on the end of their career. Because the owner, GM, and manager think a 37 year old guy will do the same as he did when he was 27. And note the dripping disdain for rookies by Mark. He notes we dont have 'newbies'. Did Mark just find out about the internet and he is catching up on the lingo. Just spending the last 24 hours having a serious think and read about this franchise, I can only conclude it is owned, run, and managed by baseball fools.

I am concerned that Doug put together this team with 'no holes in it' (his words). I am concerned that our manager was 'really happy' with the roster. I am concerned that the two guys who mainly put together the roster cannot evaluate talent. I am concerned that the main owner thinks he is Billy Beane or something and runs a parallel operation to the GM. I dont see how we have any hope for coming out of this death spiral with any of the three in charge of anything. Currently, the three of them are throwing the players under the bus game by game. 'it is the players who are playing' or words to that effect game after game. We had our brief rise when we got lucky with drafting a few batting studs (with really high picks). So, with the current trio we have in charge, our only hope is this: suck for a year or two more, then all the big contracts go away; the players left are poor so do not get big contracts; so we will stay really poor for, say, three or four years. Which means for three or four years we draft high. IF IF IF we are lucky, we draft a few studs, who, in another three years hit The Show. Then they have a couple years of seasoning, and we have our window. That window is in 4 years of sucking + 3 years of new players in the minors + 2 years major seasoning = 2015 + 9 years = 2024. The only thing that can speed it is the quality of trading current players. But will we do Sexson or Gallardo trades. The fact that we seem to have obtained 12 years of MLB talent for 1 year of Gallardo is quite OK. Also, a couple of other points. I thought the AAA squad would win games with all the 'could play in Milwaukee now guys'. What they are doing shows you how easy it must be to play for Milwaukee right now. When you consider Lind is clearly our best batting talent it makes you cry. A throw away, platoon guy, for the American league become our number one bat. That is how bad our talent is. Throw aways from other teams are better than all else on our roster. There is another possiblity intertwined in all this: teams do reflect their manager a lot; so either our roster is crap or our manager is crap (and good players are playing crap under his watch); heck, maybe it is 50-50

danzig, how do you know 'nor want any'? Maybe what you say is true, but when you come on and type like you just chatted with Bob over dinner, and you are giving a quote... well, that will make other 'firm facts' you state, re any topic, be questioned. 45 years is a long time to travel with a second class, non winner, organisation. It could be tiresome and emotionally not as fun as the odd season victory. Somehow this thread has turned into Bob's past achievements and lifestyle and how wonderful it is.

Amen to this thinking. We can even pay all the salary of Broxy. We are paying it anyway. Just get back some decent prospect.