mattyo

Huge overpay.... even if he is somewhat above avg.... Even if he just plays to his career average it would be anything but an overpay

I'd take Sano off their hands ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My thoughts exactly. If we were gonna spend that kind of money, we could just sign Donaldson 4/10-110 mil and he'd be significantly cheaper, with similar production (when considering Arenado's away splits - for sure), all while keeping an elite RP in our bullpen.

Everything you've said here is an opinion. You list no facts backing up your absolutist statements here. There is no way you know that other clubs don't view Hader like we do, nor that the White Sox wouldn't deal the #21 prospect in baseball straight up for the best RP in baseball. If your cost controlled elite RP is not bringing back even 1 top 20 prospect (let alone straight up for one) why would you ever consider trading him? That is the point we have gotten to in this thread. We DON'T have to trade Hader. He can still come back and be the anchor for our bullpen that he always has been. Why would we trade that for a middling prospect return, especially at a point when we have a small window to compete? I guess what I am saying is if you have been following this thread, legitimate national reporters have stated Stearns asking price for Hader is rightfully huge. If that asking price is not met then Hader will not be traded, as he is under cheap control for many years. I highly doubt anyone in this thread, let alone the country, believes Hader with 4 years of control is worth less than at least 1 highly regarded prospect. If you want, check the trade comparables, they would all agree with that statement. Will he get traded for a Gleyber Torres? Almost certainly not. But even that trade is more likely than a trade in which we send Hader to a team for some low ranked throw-away prospects.

This is the same account that is the source of the Hader/Yankees "rumors." The guy is just throwing everything he's got at the wall and hoping something sticks. It's all a load of garbage.

If there is one thing that sticks out during this saga it is that Yankees fans are absolutely insufferable. Maybe we are lucky all we have to deal with are cubs and cards fans?

Based on what? This has been erroneously stated in this thread multiple times. There are no legitimate sources saying we are possibly looking to trade Hader. There are reputable sources saying Stearns is "willing to listen" on him, just as Stearns has been reported to be willing to listen on any single one of our players over the course of his tenure. Its his M.O. and that is a good thing. Doesn't mean we are looking to trade him, and certainly doesn't mean we are looking to trade him for Yankee spare parts like these anonymous twitter accounts would like their followers (and members of this forum) to think.

Hahahah "Cashman being a tough negotiator". How much more obvious can it get that this is a load of crap?

If this was true, I have no idea why the Mets wouldn't have pulled the trigger. The Mets best ranked prospect is #80 on MLB pipeline, and Smith/Matz is hardly a haul. It's not homerism either, look at the responses to his tweet, echoing the same sentiments. Again, I'm gonna wait for confirmation from a legitimate twitter source (the Rosenthals of the world) before believing anything. I would be shocked if Stearns was locked into a trade like that. Because Betances just cost money and a one year deal? I think what the Mets turned down is more in line with what a Hader trade would look like. Betances is also coming off two of the worst possible injuries for pitchers to have, and might not even be ready when the season begins. Betances is a complete question mark and Josh Hader is coming off back to back reliever of the year awards.

If this was true, I have no idea why the Mets wouldn't have pulled the trigger. The Mets best ranked prospect is #80 on MLB pipeline, and Smith/Matz is hardly a haul. It's not homerism either, look at the responses to his tweet, echoing the same sentiments. Again, I'm gonna wait for confirmation from a legitimate twitter source (the Rosenthals of the world) before believing anything. I would be shocked if Stearns was locked into a trade like that.

Funny. LOL. However, I will say that I am appreciative that we have discussion in the off-season. I, for one, am happy for that. I hope it keeps rolling into spring training. Let's keep talking ball into the dead of the winter. Agreed, quite enjoy it when it gets to this point honestly

My favorite part of the offseason is when we start discussing GM trades

Or we could hold onto a crucial piece of our MLB team for a couple more years of our "contending window" and get the same value as these trades when Hader only has a few years of control left. If these are the "realistic" trade options, I'm praying Stearns isn't looking to trade him.

1) Because Stearns doesn't have the $$ for it - (In this scenario, Attanasio is cutting budget and doesn't want any other big contracts) OR 2) Because the Brewers internally do not value Castellanos as someone worth what he is projected to make in this market - 4 yr/ $60 mil. I get your point, and its a frustrating one, but one that comes with being a fan of one of the smallest markets in a rich market's league.

I've said this before, it feels like people here have seen rumors and gone into "we have to trade Hader this offseason" mode. Which, obviously, is ridiculous since hes under cheap control for 4 years. If they Yankees aren't willing to give up huge value to pry away the best RP in baseball from a "contending" team, then you tell them to pound sand. "The Yankees will never trade X" "THey would NEVER give up X". Their loss - kick rocks. Also to the people saying we should trade Hader because he "might not be elite" next year - The exact same could be said for extremely volatile MLB prospects, most of which never pan out, let alone reach the level of Hader. Furthermore, Hader at this point has a pretty extensive track record of dominance. Its confounding to me the undervaluing of one of our best assets. Do people not remember the insane trade proposals people came up with for a half season of Jonathan Lucroy? My god its like everyone in that thread deleted their accounts and its all new posters in here.

This is just some random twitter account with 1k twitter followers. Better off ignoring it until we get confirmation from an actual account with new information.

This is an easy answer due to who it includes. You stick with Arcia's defense and weak bat. Reason being he can be batted 8th or even 9th. Andujar is not a top of the order bat. So he's going to bat 5th or 6th maybe even 7th since he's returning from injury and not proven that he deserves a top 6 slot in the batting order. So his weak defense that is on display for 9Innings a game vs Arcia who provides the defense 9innings in a game and bottom of the batting order hidden offense. I think if this were a Trout with his immense Offense and he came with Andujar's defense you are going to choose Trout becase he can bat 1st or 2nd and provide that positive far more often. Essentially it's something like batting: 1st sees 750 PAs 3rd sees 716 PAs 5th sees 684 PAs 7th sees 647 PAs 8th sees 627 PAs 9th sees 608 PAs That's about 18% less than 1st for an 8th in order bat. At 5 it's about 9% less. You can't hide him on defense that due to age likely worsens, whereas Arcia due to age can improve on his batting. You would have to think Andujar has a Lux type of ceiling and that is hard to do when he's a .736OPS career minor league hitter with .866 at AAA. I mean it is awful to dream on Andujar who is a DH only player moving forward in return on a Hader trade. How about Houston. Ask for Forrest Whitley, Cionel Perez, Abraham Toro, and Jordan Brewer as a throw in. That is #1, former top 10, #5, and the throw in since he's a "Brewer" actually interesting has a tie to the Badgers as a potential recruit. this sounds like a Monte Harrison type player needing lots of baseball experience. Toro is a switch hitter 3b/1b only 22. Perez is their #5 prospect of 2018 who starts done in the minors, but has pitched (poorly) as a brief RP for Houston thus far having lost his prospect status. 23 yrs old and Lefty, kinda a replacement for Hader in a couple seasons? but maybe he can be a starter too. Whitley is a guy dreamed as a #1 starter and had a poor season in 2019 reducing some of that shine. You know how a few of these have gone, Lucas Giolito/Tyler Glasnow. Live up to that #1 status and it's a steal for Milwaukee. Why would Houston do this trade? Lost Will Harris, Roberto Osuna has 2 years left on contract. Whitley may never have this kind of value as he does still. Perez/Toro are lower in their pecking order. Fans can be happy that they traded back for Hader. This is an interesting suggestion, well done. Whitley of course has the upside of a future Cy Young type starter, but had a pretty poor 2019 by his lofty standards. I think this is much closer to realistic value for Hader than anything the Yankees would offer, and would love to see Whitley as a return, though it would be a significant gamble. I would way rather do this than any trade centered around Andujar and overhyped Yankees garbage.

Let them push until they give the world

By all means, please offer up your own suggestions. And no, the Dodgers aren’t trading one of the top three prospects in baseball for a reliever, so... Then you tell the Dodgers, or whatever team not willing to give up actual value, to piss off and you keep your elite RP for the next four years. That was easy, wasn't it? It feels like people here are married to the idea that we need to get rid of him, despite the fact that the only reports have said that Brewers are "willing to listen" on Hader. Well, if you have followed the Brewers since Stearns has been in charge, that is his M.O. on every single guy. We aren't trading our best RP for scraps. We aren't trading our best RP for "equal value." And of that we can be sure, it's what Stearns does and is why I feel very comfortable in saying 90% of the trades proposed in this thread are too little and completely improbable.

Yes, I think thats been made clear over the past 10 or so pages of the same trade being proposed, and they should complain.

I'm having a very tough time figuring your valuation of Hader. You proposed a trade for Smith and Matz (way undervalued), then Syndergaard and Familiar and Correa (overvalued). If we traded Hader for Smith and Matz I would chain myself to Miller Park in protest of the worst brewers trade in the franchise's history

Except the Yankees have had more discussions with the Brewers for Hader than any other team. So Stearns must like the Yankees as a possible trade partner for Hader. Just because we have only heard tweets from national reporters saying the Yankees are interested in Hader doesn't mean the Brewers are interested in working out a trade with them, nor does it mean the Brewers haven't discussed Hader with multiple other teams.

Maybe not as big a number as the market so far might have suggested.

Stearns should be fired on the spot if Andujar is the main piece of any Hader trade. Absolutely ridiculous that he has been targeted by these national writers as a guy that could be the main piece of a Hader deal. I get it, we don't have a third basemen as of today, but what the hell makes someone think we MUST target a third basemen in a trade for an elite RP with 4 years of control? Especially if that third basement had 1 above average season and coming off major surgery. Its insulting. If he is a part of any Hader deal, there better be a second piece at least as valuable coming along.

Cmon man this is the optimism thread