OnTheBlack

Yes Please! Boy, I'd hate to give up on Burnes, as I still think there is so much potential there, but we need a guy like Bauer that can lead the rotation for a year and a half and give us a couple of opportunities for a title. It's really unfortunate that Zack Brown isn't having a good year, because it would have been great to put together a package of Brown, Turang, Ashby - which might have helped us hold onto Burnes. I think I'd almost put Turang in the same group as Burnes as guys I don't want to see touched. It's a very small list. Hiura and Turang in the minors and most of the young guys in the bigs.

I do not want to give up either of those guys. The Brewers don't have a great system, but if they can produce a star every couple years and then keep churning out good role players, I think they're alright for now. I think Turang could be a star at SS and Burnes...well, we've all seen how talented he is.

I had trouble logging on the past couple days, I'm guessing others did as well or this thread would be overcome with the panic(by a few, but vocal) posters who just saw another contender at a CY YOUNG WINNER! Keuchel's good, just not a huge fan and not all that confident he's going to add much to your team this year. He's already a soft tossing lefty...which is not the worse thing in the world, but adding him would have likely nearly if not completely closed any other options. I think at the end of the day, BP help and MAYBE a big bat will be more important. I wanted Kimbrel on a deal like this(not for 16 the next two years) but not Kuechel as much. I like our current rotation. Even with my heightened level of skepticism with regard to Nelson. I want to see us add some arms to that BP. Givens from the O's for whatever is reasonable and then try to move on to Will Smith. Those two arms shouldn't kill the farm system, shouldn't kill the payroll, but along with possible reinforcements, should help out our pen enormously. Plus, Givens, he's had a few blowups vs the Yankees that pretty much every pitcher has this year(9 of his 15 ER's) but a pretty strong history.

I think it's pretty obvious we win that series. I don't think we would have played quite like Tor is in the finals, but this would have been Giannis' coming out party and with the way GSW are playing defensively, Giannis would be putting up 40/15/5 in his first finals and....and I don't want to keep playing this hypothetical because it's making me sad.

I'm just eager to see how invested these owners are into winning. I understand they put up a lot of money for both the stadium(300 million IIRC with 100 of that coming from Kohl) and the team not that long ago, but if we're going to go off that Daryl Morely, "5 pct" rule, meaning if your team has even a 5 pct chance of winning it all, you have to go all in on that season, then the Bucks should be willing to do pretty much everything(yes, including signing Hill). I'm thinking they're probably taking a long term view more so than just looking at this season. The worst thing they could do is take a David Stearns like approach to these FA's though. Put a value on them and refuse to go above what they think said players value is. Makes absolute sense when Stearns does it with FA's, it would make zero sense for Horst to do it with his FA's.

I can't resist the temptation to type VanFleet every time. But he was THEE difference in that series. Without him making an absurd number of shots, the Bucks win. If Kawhi just doesn't get those 4 bounces in game 7 vs the Sixers...if the Bucks just hit a few shots or Giannis isn't called for a garbage 6th foul in OT, if...if...if. So close this year to being the Bucks finishing off a Warriors dynasty that's not even limping, more like crawling along at this point. That's alright though. Bucks time is coming.

That's a great point. I don't know if we have the assets to other than potential salary relief to offer for a legitimate superstar like AD, but in future years this could become more important. A Mike Conley/Chris Paul type of player/deal could come up if a superstar doesn't. Players who are a little overpaid but still have value and fit in well. Mirotic on a shorter deal could become one of these types of options if he signed a 2-3 year deal with a Hill like final year. 2 years/24 million 3rd year option for 15 million, 14 of which is guaranteed.

No, but there's a looong way to go for that to happen, and those who advocated signing Keuchel(I wasn't among them) were doing so because he had a proven track record and in spite of his diminishing FB velocity. Very few guys who are 4 year college guys add velocity to their FB. Hopefully we got one as he's just one year removed from TJ. I see what you're saying, I just don't think it's a fair comp. Compare the 4th year Jr with the 18 year old Prep kid with 4 pitches, a 65 fastball that touches 97 and scouts think will add a MPH or 3 yet and could be a future ace, and it's easy to see why he was the "exciting" pick.

They all say that, except for like top 5 picks. Re: the notion that Small is a "boring" pick: 83.0 IP, 1.84 ERA, 0.810 WHIP, 2.4 BB/9, 15.1 K/9! Boring, ok. FB-86-92. I think that's pretty much the extent of where the idea comes from that he's boring. But if he adds a few MPH on his fastball and sits closer to 92-96 with the way he hides it, his delivery, questionable secondary pitches. Sounds vaguely similar to a current Brewers who's been pretty important to our current success without starting for them. I would have taken Malone just because he sounded like a guy with a higher upside, but you can't argue with those numbers in the SEC and a lefty who racks up strikeouts is exciting in and of itself.

Sure he is. He probably should't have been with his frame, athletic ablity and first step, he should have been an edge rusher, but he's not. He's a LB'er for Minnesota who rarely rushes the passer...which is vastly under utilizing his skill set. He also extremely up and down and apparently came back to Minnesota rather than leave to play OLB'er for the Jets. But he didn't, he came back and he's played LB'er his entire career. Also, being as instinctive and as smart as Martinez absolutely makes up for a ton in the NFL. No possible way to argue otherwise. But as someone pointed out, he's not this terrible athlete. He's a 4.70 40 guy who's instinctive, makes plays behind the LOS, has a good feel for blitzing. He's definitely an asset to the Packers defense. The problem is they don't have anyone to play next to him. I'm trying to think of the list of complete non-edge rushing LB'ers who do everything well in the NFL. I'm coming up with Wags and Kuechly. Telvin Smith is a pretty complete LB'er, but there are very few.

That was kinda what I was thinking. I wonder if they had a framework for a deal in place. All I know is when the Brewers take a guy that everyone seems excited about, it'd been a bit of a bust in recent years, the guys who don't get praised as much by the pundits seem to end up having more success.

Nobody, you don't win a fight about an opinion You lose an argument when you tell people you're more qualified than they are without having a clue as to their life experiences and then you misrepresent what they said and then, in my opinion, get extraordinarily condescending. Perfectly stated. I’ve coached linebackers & mostly inside linebackers for over a decade & was completely dumbfounded by the assessment of Martinez. Now granted, Martinez athletically or play style doesn’t jump off page.... but he is a very good linebacker. Now I will say I agree he isn’t elite at taking on & beating blocks. He just isn’t explosive or strong enough to be the imposing LB some want. He is a far better scrap linebacker vs a plunge linebacker. However, he isn’t some bum at it who can’t get off a block or take on guys at all. He’s just a natural Mike vs Sam backer. He is outstanding at getting reads & shooting the green to the ball (the lanes the naturally open between a defender & ball carrier). He is highly intelligent which to me is arguably one of most important qualities for a linebacker as it has ability to mask many other flaws they may have. When you can read what the play is & react correctly at the snap of ball you are at huge advantage. Instincts are so crucial for the position. He has outstanding motor with enough athleticism to close & make plays. He is leader of defense, makes all the calls, adjustments, and knows exactly where everyone needs to be. Pff had Martinez ranked 17th amongst linebackers in 2018 & top in NFC North (not saying too much however, North doesn’t have very many great ones) he is in no way a liability to this team & is a big part of our future success. He doesn’t need to be elite, a player who is almost always in right place at right time play after play is a huge asset. Problem is Packers don’t and haven’t had another linebacker to complement his skill set. Matthews was such a perfect match next to him but they didn’t stick with it. They had their explosive, mean, plunger and their Uber intelligent read & react scraper. I assume that there are a lot of former athletes who post on this board as well as a lot of coaches, so the "I'm an expert" thing kinda irks me as well. I agree as well, he's not a great athlete, but setting aside the elite LB'ers in the NFL, very few are. You have Deion Jones who is awesome vs the pass, but he gets knocked over by a soft breeze, or Daron Lee who was mentioned I liked coming out but was awful his rookie year, better last year. But there are very few guys who are as instinctive as Martinez as you say who are also at least competent in coverage. The part in bold though says it perfectly. He's also pretty athletic. But his instincts and the way he can make plays in the backfield, that's what makes him a good MLB'er. The position is a huge question mark because you don't have a 2nd MLB'er that you can count on for anything. Not even for Jake Ryan type production. You're hoping Burks can step in and play that role as nickel LB'er. He was a big, physical with good athletic ability who hasn't really been available to show much yet.

If Mirotic would have duplicated his success from the post-season last year, the Bucks would be in the finals, and he'd have likely priced himself out of Milwaukee. He went from a guy everyone was talking about how much it'd take to a guy people are kinda writing off. I'm kinda torn on this one. DJ Wilson has hit 3's roughly as well as Mirotic has, though obviously at a significantly lower volume, he's younger and I think will be a better defender and is a bit more athletic. I be in favor of bring Mirotic back at ~9-10 a year. Retaining Lopez or even using a draft pick on a big body who's a bit more athletic and capable of defending other bigs, both near the basket and a guy like Gasol/Ibaka in space a bit more could have an impact on this decision. With Houston looking to re-tool(foolishly IMO) and reportedly shopping Capella, I wonder what they'd be looking for in return. My guess is far more than we have that would interest him, but he is the type of guy you could see them possibly being interested in. I just can't see any package going back that would be worth it for us without a Brogdon type going back. And I don't see the point to that.

Was it that Malika Andrews story on ESPN? I hope that was because Giannis was annoyed by the BS reporting and not because it was something that leaked from his camp. Though I really don't know how big of a camp he has that decides such things as he seems to keep things pretty close to his family.

Agreed. But this is also why I think it's SO important to re-sign Middleton and Brogdon(and frankly Mirotic despite an awful series). They had to focus on Middleton, but as Giannis continues to grow, just as a 24 year old LeBron had to continue to grow, and he starts hitting his jumpers, they'll have to play us differently. I like this team and I like the future of this team a lot. Ideally I wouldn't pay Middleton the max, but if the choice is overpaying by 4-6 million a year or trying to find some vet to take his place along with Sterling Brown, Snell, DDV, I'll gladly take Middleton being overpaid. What I don't agree with is that this team needs another superstar. I don't believe that at all. We've seen plenty of teams win without a 2nd superstar, but a good, deep roster and one dominant player so long as those other players work well with that dominant player. Now if Houston wants to trade Chris Paul to Milwaukee for Middleton and Mirotic since Paul is utterly wasted in Houston, I'd be on board with that, but since he's 35 and that's almost impossible, I'll just be happy watching Giannis HOPEFULLY mature into a player who can lead a team similar to this to NBA ChampionshipS in the future while dealing with how much this completely sucks right now.

The Brewers loss last year to the Dodgers hurt, but I think their chances were low to win the World Series anyway. The 2001 ECF's hurt because I thought we were better than them and should have won the series, but again, we were waiting for a Juggernaut in the finals. The Packers blown NFCCG's hurt, the Seahawks in particular. The loss to the Giants with the halftime hail marry stung. The loss to the Falcons hurt, but we had just nobody who could cover. This ECF's hurts as much as any of them. Within 15 minutes of the loss there were articles about Giannis potentially leaving Milwaukee if we don't give him the best chance to get to the finals based on "reporting" from his camp...which I basically take as "he really cares about going to the finals and being a winner" and then being twisted around. But they had the Raptors on the ropes several times. They were WAY less experienced and they made a lot of mistakes, but they still had big leads they blew in multiple games and they lost in OT when multiple Raptors fouled out. The Bucks were a few shots away from probably putting the Raps away in game 3(and then they likely come out flat in game 4) and they let it slip through their fingers. Ever great team has to go through it and every great player has to deal with it, but it doesn't make it any easier to deal with as a fan.

Jennings vs LHB last year: .226/.266/.304 There were a lot of people not happy with the move when it happened. Cedeno got them out too. The question is why did Stearns feel the need to take a valuable draft pick and spend it on a guy that should only face left handed hitters when he had two that he got rid of already and when LOOGYs just aren't that valuable to begin with? So because we've missed on some picks we should just toss them aside? Maybe the Packers and Bucks should do that too? And we're not really getting a contributing big leaguer right now. Also, this decade we've gotten Jimmy Nelson with a pick in the 60s, Haniger at pick 38, Woodruff in the 11th round and Burnes at 111 and that's with piss poor drafting for most of the decade. We still managed to get some quality around (and later) than where that pick is going to be. Not to mention dropping us to the second lowest bonus pool in the draft. It was a trade that didn't make any sense at the time and now that Claudio is being used as a pitcher that he clearly cannot be, it's even worse. Exactly. But at that time, we saw lists that showed how similar he was(or at least how he wasn't THAT far behind) guys like Kimbrel, Knebel, Jeffress and Hader because he served as a loogy for a bad team. It was a bad move then, it's a bad move now.

Respectfully, I disagree. He made adjustments. He benched Mirotic, he changed up the D, he had Giannis attacking from the top of the key far less, he had a much quicker hook with Bledsoe. The Raptors have been in this position for the last 4-5 years and it took flipping their future in Derozan for a rental in Kawhi to get it done. They'll be the Grizzlies next year and an also-ran. Kawhi will sign the max for an LA team and miss half the season with a bunch of maladies that the trainers cannot identify.

That's ideal, but I couldn't sit up there for a press conference after a big loss like that. A heart breaking loss that we choked away. Edit-I'm not saying you're wrong, I just honestly understand it, and it doesn't bother me as much as you because that's part of what gives Giannis that "edge."

VanVleet followed that up with 4 of 5 from 3 tonight. And those WERE contested shots or they were from well behind the 3 point line for anyone who wants to keep parroting that the problem was the Bucks giving up open 3's. For that matter, almost all of Kawhi's 3's were contested as well. The only guy who regularly got open looks was Gasol and you can't cover everyone when you've got to worry about a superstar.

The Bucks scored 100 points in regulation just once in the final four games. The game they lost by 22. It was 100 pct the Bucks offense and absolutely NOT their defense.

That matters? That Mirotic missed 3 point shots? Yeah, it did. Here's the thing though. I won't say that the Raptors shooting worse from 34 pct from 3 when they won game 4 by a blowout was the difference when the hit 35.7 pct in game one and lost. I won't look at the stats and just ignore that they're reality. I also won't say Giannis missing 5 FT's cost us the series or any ONE thing did. Frankly, I think you'd have to be clueless about BB to think there was ONE single factor....save for MAYBE Kawhi and say, "this is why we lost the series." The Bucks defensive effort was NOT the problem whatsoever though. The Bucks offensive execution WAS the problem. A lot of things go into that. The aforementioned Kawhi, Bledsoe not playing well, Giannis not having a great shot yet, etc..etc...NOT the Raptors 3 point shooting. At least not until the end of game 6, though you've been harping on this and NOTHING else since game 4 when it was that much more ridiculous. And again, were you not the one who had the Bucks losing in 5 games to Boston? Just stop already.

I think Golden State will win, but I don't think it's going to be as one sided as you do. Green and AI2 are going to have to have big series. Kawhi is going to make life miserable for Klay and Lowry isn't going to be able to check Steph, but he can make it tough on him. Serge and Gasol will also make life tougher on them. I think they'll get crushed. We dont have shooters half as good. Toronto's lane blocking won't save them when Steph and Klay are chucking bombs over it. If KD is able to play, LOL. I'm biased. But I think a series with the Bucks would've been a lot more entertaining than the fart we're about to get. Well....I totally agree with you on that. They have a very good defender in Iggy, but no Kawhi. I think Giannis and the offense have a much easier time vs Golden State. Curry is going to have to carry them though if they put Kawhi on Klay. He's not going to shut him down like he did Midds at time, but he's going to slow him down quite a bit. Green is better than Serge, but Serge can offer some resistance. VanVleet is going to go back to choking.

Yeah, I just feel better about extending the game. They shot roughly the same pct we shot from the FT line this game. And when Pascal got the ball, I was really hoping they'd foul him. You're right, it worked, but they DID get the rebound, and that's another part of the risk you take. I take your point though. I guess if Kawhi was REALLY as tired as the TNT guys keep claiming and as injured as he tried playing it off, you SHOULD feel good about him going to the line late. Of course I took all that with not a grain of salt, but a giant bag of it.

I don't really buy that. I think they did a nice job of bringing in role guys but nobody on that team is that great. It's Giannis and guys who can play but that's it. I mean yeah, Brogdon and Mids are good players but Giannis is the gas making this thing go. Part of this is replenishment too. There are guys on the roster with futures as productive players who don't play a whole lot now. There's always going to be turnover but in the NBA if you have a Giannis you're a top 3 seed. They'll figure this out and have a very good team whether it's this group or a tweaked one. One thing I know is Giannis is hurting right now. He will take those missed FTs harder than anybody. He'll keep getting better and I'm so glad we have him. I think they absolutely have to re-sign Middleton. Kawhi was on two guys, Middleton and Giannis, moreso on Middleton. They took him away and tried to make Giannis drive. Middleton isn't good enough to be able to score constantly on Kawhi, but if they don't have that second option, then I think the series is that much less competitive as Kawhi spends even more time on Giannis and or Brogdon or whoever. Brogdon has to come back. I was all about bringing Mirotic back, and I still would...but man was his finals awful. But we have no clue what steps DDV, Sterling Brown, DJ Wilson will take next year. I think Giannis DOES pretty much guarantee you a top 3 finish year in and year out at least, but I think you're better off bringing this team back and hoping you can find another talent somewhere else. Long shot to get one with that last 1st, but good players come from there.