OnTheBlack

Gilbert's looked pretty good. Not that this justify's their performance or Spriggs or anything(These also tend to tilt towards the OL). But just speaking to the OLB'er depth, he's flashed a few times.

I think I basically agree with you. I don't get the playing games nonsense and I haven't heard that(though I'll take your word for it). I think the thing with Spriggs is he's a LT. Exclusively. He's not likely to be a good RT, they screwed around and played him guard last year and he got snaps during the regular season there and he's just not one. He's still a bit undersized but extremely athletic. It's also hard to assign blame on SOME of the plays because we have no idea what the calls were. You say stunts or no they've been bad, but when you watch most pre-season games they look similar. There's no sport where chemistry is more important and no position than OL where it's more important. If you can't pass a guy off on a stunt, you're gonna end up looking awful. And when you bring in guys who haven't played a position before(like C for example this past week) or a guy who's used to playing a totally different style of football like Gray...it's gonna look ugly. Or even as I said when Hundley drops too far. The tackles are trying to ride their guys out of the pocket and if the QB is getting pushed back or as was the case with one of Spriggs sacks, if Hundley is just dropping too far the tackles are just pushing them right into him. I'm definitely not saying Spriggs hasn't struggled this past year. I'm just saying I don't know if it's been as bad as it looks because in some cases we can't know, and I think he'll get there. It is kinda an odd situation though. I already said I don't think he's a RT. I mean, he could be fine in pass pro over there, but he's not the type of guy you want over there long term and we have one of the best LT's in the league(which is kinda amazing since Bahktari started out as a guy who was good for a rookie and then good for where he was drafted but not a long term solution to behind maybe just Williams, Smith and Thomas among all LT's in the league). And Murphy definitely looks like he could be the future at RT(conversely there's no way I'd want him on the left side). In the middle, you're right, the depth is awful. There's not much there. Unless they can get Gray up to speed this year(and I don't think even THEY think that since he's been running with the 3rd unit)....I don't know, they talked about how much better Barclay looks last year one year removed from that knee injury. I've watched and bought what they were selling on him for a while, taking their word for it, but he just hasn't been that good out there. But we'll have to see how these guys play in the regular season together. It's hard to really judge any one individual guard or center during the pre-season. Maybe a guy like Adam Pankey who had been playing tackle, but was moved to guard this year(and is a prototypical size for a guard) will step up. I just wish with this group of talent on offense, the Packers could have brought in a guy like Charles to get the ball 6-10 times a game and not low-balled Lang. They have cap-space and while I have liked that Thompson has kept the cap more than under control, we don't need to keep rolling over 9 figures in cap money each year. We need to make sure Rodgers has everything he needs. At least we signed Brooks today, and I'm sure Rodgers will make this group look better, but it'd be nice if he didn't have to and we could pound the ball when need be. Heck, I think it was foolish to let Lacy go. He was signed for cheap on a one year deal and he's always been effective. But we'll find out real quick if we have a good enough OL right out of the gate with Seattle and with ATL who now has Poe to go with Beasley and a 1st round pick thrown in there right out of the gate. We'll find out if we're overreacting or if this is gonna be this years problem position.

I think it entirely depends on that. Otherwise I think the attitude of trading him away and going with the "safer" guy is the worst way to build a winner. adambr mentions you don't know what you're gonna get, but that's the case with every prospect. You never know what you're gonna get. I think Brinson is gonna take even longer than most to develop and adjust in the big leagues. But the last thing I want to do is see them move him because they have a safer alternative. If he becomes a 30/30 type guy, a George Springer type...that's an enormous building block. And then I don't think having Phillips really means anything because doesn't have nearly the same upside. I also don't know that you can count on Broxton to be league average. He has such up's and down's offensively it wouldn't be a shock if he hits under .200 for an entire year. So if they can get a young pitcher for him, a potential ace, that would be great and I'd do that, but would you trade a young pitcher of comparable age, rating and control if you were on the other side? I would guess not. So I don't think other teams are likely to do so. I want them to gamble. To go with the upside. I don't think the fact that maybe they moved up their window by a year or two should change that.

I like Santana a lot more than Davis. Santana's also just 24 years old, he has not only a good arm but a really strong throwing arm. Davis could get to more balls and Santana makes more just...awful plays, but I still hold out hope he could improve defensively. Davis was 3 years older, had a ridiculously bad arm. They're similar in that they both walk, they both are issues in the OF and both have some power, but Santana has enough thinks tilted in his direction that we should expect a lot more in return for him or choose to build with him moving forward.

I don't think it needs to hit you square in the chest. One in the ribs near the heart is probably just as dangerous.

LATEST: The 6'11" Koenig, 40th round pick, spurned a $100,000 (plus college costs) offer. I gotta question the advice he received on this one. You are going to pay (D2 scholarships are only 50% I believe) to go to school, receive d2 coaching, facilities, and terrible spring weather and limited offseason training options. Versus being handed $100000, free tuition fallback, professional coaching, facilities, Arizona weather, etc. I realize MiLB baseball is a grind but this one seems pretty easy to me. I agree...on the flip side..and just to play devils advocate because I do agree with you, playing minor league baseball can be a pretty lonely experience(from everything you hear) and quite a grind while playing in college is a whole lot of fun. I would still take the 100K and see where I am in 3-4 years when I have plenty of time to go back to school rather than pass and hope I get drafted again. But hopefully it works out for the kid.

Dang...I hadn't followed the Badgers camp at all. This is the first I'd heard about Cinchy. Love watching that guy play. I think we're still loaded on the inside and we have our entire DL back, but that guy just made plays.

You can see Cobb - a guy who over the last three years has over 2700 receiving yards and 22 TDs and in three playoff games last year racked up 260 receiving yards and 3 TDs - being cut for a UDFA who was cut by the Raiders last year after training camp, or a guy who was a 7th round draft pick. Who exactly was Lane Taylor a year ago at this time? We cut an all pro LG the weekend before the regular season(so a much better guard than Cobb has been a WR'er over the same time frame you're using). Cobb probably sticks for another year, but this is hardly a huge stretch. The WR'er battle and the DB battles are gonna be the most interesting. We could see a guy like Cobb gone and we could see our top CB for most of last year cut as well in Gunter.

Yes, I think there really is. I think there is a huge need for a past first team like the Packers who don't have anything resembling a durable #1 back to have a quality 3rd WR'er. I think they need to have a quality 3rd, 4th and 5th for that matter. These guys go down. That's not to say that I would be shocked if they cut Cobb(or traded him) but I think they would have to have a significant level of confidence in whoever was coming into replace them. Also, I wouldn't just take it for granted that the Packers are going to be running a ton out of a two tight. Over McCarthy's time here they're among the lowest in the league in number of plays run with two Tight Ends and Bennett, as good as he looks IS on his 5th team since 2011 and has a history of getting banged up. I feel fairly confident that they'll go with 7 WR'ers on on this roster. Obviously Nelson and Adams are locks. Cobb-I think he's safe given the Packers level of confidence, but it wouldn't surprise me if they dump him and go younger if they feel comfortable with some of the younger guys. Janis-I think he's gonna make the team just for his impact on special teams. He's also improved his route running and his hands. I think people have soured on him because he hasn't turned into a great WR'er, but this is a guy from...what was it, Savannah State? Or Saginaw? Either way, there was a massive jump in competition and he didn't need to be a precision route runner. But his impact on the KR team and moreso on the punt teams, kickoff teams...I think he makes it. After those 4...it's just totally up in the air. Clark has no shot. I wonder if we'll be able to sneak him past waivers. My guess would be that after those 4 we go into week 1 with Davis, McCaffery and Dupre as our 7 with a big decision to make after Allison comes back week 2. But a lot of that is just on hearsay. Davis looks electric and a little better as a route runner, but it's really hard to say in the limited snaps I've seen. McCaffery looks impressive and I like how he catches the ball. He goes up strong and catches it away from his body and is physical enough to fight for extra yards. But most of what I've hard about McCaffery comes from articles in which reporters are talking about how impressive he is. I wonder if we'd hear the same if he had a different family. And I'm not sure if the Packers are gonna trust Davis. It would definitely be nice to have a guy who can take the top off a defense though. We haven't had guys who could get a lot of separation the last couple years. I could also see the Packers giving a guy like Clark a much bigger salary if he passes through waivers to stay on the practice squad. Guys with his size and athletic ability are rare. But with injuries, I don't think we're gonna be able to hold onto anyone of our other WR'ers if we let them go. At least not long. And you know TT is looking ahead to next year. Adams is a free agent and I doubt we're gonna be spending 10-15 million on 3 WR'ers. And Nelson is gonna be 33 years old. So that's why I think we go into the year with 8(7 on the 53 man).

It was really just once and it's not exactly a rare move. The problem on one was the snap. But when looking at a young QB, I don't think they're QB sneaks are of particular import. I think this is almost entirely a product of having Favre and then Rodgers. Hundley looks like a prototypical QB in the NFL. The size, arm strength, feet, his speed. Not sure what more you want out of a young QB who's come in with constantly changing personnel. I think Hundley could start for a lot of teams in the NFL right now. He's looked about as good as a backup can this pre-season.

Gray is gonna take a season but I really think he's gonna be a long time starter for the Packers. I do think that Thompson has undervalued the guards and I think he should have spent the money to at least bring Tretter back(if he'd have been willing to stay for a simliar salary). Evans has had his moments where he looks like a bulldozer, but I don't know if he is gonna provide the same pocket that has allowed Rodgers to move around. As for Spriggs, I think he'll be fine with more reps. He did get roasted by Miller, but the week before I think was greatly exaggerated. The first sack he gave up was because Hundley didn't stay in the pocket. He rode his guy out and the pass rusher got the sack about 10 yards deep. You expect a seasoned QB to step up there as the OLB'er just goes past him. If you think back, people were pretty down on Lang his first couple of years. Not saying Spriggs doesn't need to get better, I just think he's better than he's shown. I'm with you that if Bulaga went down it'd be Murphy, but I think if Bahktari goes down, it's Spriggs at LT. I think things would look a lot differently if you had the starters in there with any one of the guys you mentioned. Stunts are usually gonna destroy an OL during the pre-season with guys coming in and out and without and the communication not nearly as good as it'd be during the season. Other than Spriggs, Murphy and particularly Gray, I haven't really paid attention to any of the other interior linemen either..so I can only go off what Rodgers and McCarthy have said. I believe McCarthy has lamented his confidence in their depth and Rodgers has said they need to shore it up. I'd tend to believe Rodgers a bit more. You can usually read a lot into his most reserved statements even. To me it says he's not real confident with his backup's. I like Gray....but I wouldn't want to see him on the field protecting Rodgers this year. Barclay...it's almost impossible to get a real read on what he's gonna do since he's been hampered by injuries. The top 8 seem obvious to me, but beyond that, I wouldn't be shocked to see them make a move. Again, the only real question mark to me is if they expose Gray to waivers to try to get him back on the practice squad or if they keep him on the roster this year. Given the numbers, I find the later less likely.

Unbelievably, that's more than they got for Scooter. If there was a contest to see how many different threads you could bring up Gennett in that have nothing to do with Gennett, I assure you, you'd be winning it, hands down. I was curious why Gennett KEPT coming up time after time in totally unrelated threads. He would have been great to have in hindsight, but with Villar/Arcia and Perez coming into the season he didn't look like a longterm solution anywhere and he really hasn't looked like one since the break where he's come back down to Earth.

Darn it! When I saw The Chicken have Braun hit in that situation I just knew he was gonna strike out. Why not try Aguilar there?? I love Aguilar...he's been impressive as hell this year. But you always go with Braun. He's got his warts, but at the endof the day, he's the best offensive player on the team. I'll take him over anyway. This has been Braun's second worst season and he's still been at least as good as Aguilar.

When do you ever really think that though? I mean...even the best pitching prospects, you can only hope that they become true, legit aces. There are what...10 of them in all of baseball? If that. Just the fact that we're starting to pile up these guys is what's important to me. We have more young pitchers who are exceeding their expectations at a younger age than I can ever remember. At least since we had Neugabauer and Sheets and even then I don't remember the depth we currently have(not saying anyone we currently have is on their level, so no need to point out that Burnes doesn't have Neugabauer's stuff, just the number of talented pitchers with at least 2/3 type updside is greater).

Well...nobody is. We could win 5 games the rest of the way and I'd consider this year a success. We were supposed to be picking in the top 5 in next years draft. We just took a series from far and away the best team in baseball and 6 games on a West Coast swing. They've made what everyone assumed would be a rebuilding season a competitive and fun one. Can't ask for too much more than that...

That's probably for the best. The more I think about it, let him hit 150 innings and go into the off-season on a positive note. Throwing him into the pen at this point probably provides more risk that reward. Hopefully he can start out next year like he's finishing this year and we'll see him in Milwaukee every 5th day at some point next year June or later.

That's one of the first things that stands out, but the training these medical professionals have just to get him to the hospital can at least give you hope. Just another reason why these bean-ball wars are so ridiculous in today's game. There are enough accidental batters hit by pitch. Hopefully something like this(which I assume and hope was just a wild pitch) will change the attitudes in baseball.

Yeah, but I think the point that others are making and one of the biggest reservations I had about this is those spots are going to be more important this next off-season than they have been in a while. I would say it's at least a part of the reason why we made the Copper trade with the Yankees. Might as well try and get something for him now before you lose him in the rule 5. As for Taylor Williams...anyone who's dominating at Biloxi should be considered. But I don't want to see him out there where he could be put in any situations where they're pushing him at all...something that's going to almost certainly going to happen. Trying to get him through an inning and having him throw extra pitches...I would guess he's on a pretty regimented routine right now. I do wonder with him if they ever try to get him back to being a starter.

The way this guy has been dominating this year and now with a decent sample size in AA I wonder if there's any shot at all that if the Brewers can stay in the race into September they MIGHT bring Burnes up and use him out of the pen. Similar to how they did with Hader before his recent back to back starts? I know how aggressive this would be and the fact that he now looks like the best young pitcher in the organization(at least still in the minors) and he has a fastball that can hit 96-97 and what's being described as a plus slider...what do you think? I would assume he'd abandon his curve and his changeup and just focus on his two best pitches if he was gonna get the bump. He also, unlike most pitchers this early into their careers shown exceptionally control. Not sure how great his command is but from the numbers....it looks pretty dang good. What are the arguments against? Young pitcher..don't want to stress his arm with a new role this late into the season a year after he was drafted. The roster implications? Or is the biggest one that he simply hasn't had enough time to develop? I think if a guy shows he can dominate AA like he has, he's at least close to being ready and given what we have in the BP, I would think he could make an impact. I realize this is a bit out there, but he seems like a guy who could come up now and get some big outs. I think if we get to 5 games back then it's not even worth discussing, but if we can somehow manage to be within 2-3 games at the outset of September I would have to take him over guys like Drake and Torres in the pen the lst month of the year. Thoughts?

You can't just blame EVERYTHING that goes against the norm on luck. Hader's stuff is electric and while he struggles with command, he's able to walk guys and then leave them on base because he's so hard to hit. I don't know what Hader's gonna do in the future, but the guy has incredible stuff and is almost uninhabitable vs lefties in particular so his LOB% is likely going to defy statistical norms. To be a successful long term pitcher...obviously he's gonna have to bring his walk rate down by...at least 1/3rd...which would still be high.

Woodruff should be in Garza's spot now. Pretty incredible that the Brewers are going down to a four man rotation for the rest of the month and decided Garza is one of their four best starters?! Can't figure out what would be so attractive about Garza's 9.16 ERA/1.98 WHIP in August that would motivate the Brewers to keep him in the rotation. Too small a sample size? How about the totally mediocre 4.81 ERA/1.40 WHIP/5.10 FIP he has on the season. Maybe his historical performance should keep him in the rotation? From 2015-2017 he has a 5.07 ERA/1.50 WHIP/82 ERA+. It's probably only going to be 2 starts, but 2 starts is pretty huge at this point in the season. It'll be Garza vs Moore in SF, which is a very winnable game, but if Garza gets shelled again and we lose 9-8 and end up missing the playoffs by 1 game, that will give Stearns and Counsell something to think about in the off-season, no doubt. With that said, I'm okay with this one last shot to get back on track, but if he puts up another clunker, it's time to pull the plug. Even if you can't make it til September 1st. Guerra has been pitching well for Colorado Springs and could cover the last start in August since you now can't recall Woodruff for 10 days. My impression on them sending Guerra down was for him to get a couple starts and then come back up. He hadn't pitched THAT poorly. I go back to that Pitt start where he came out and for the first 5 innings he looked like he did last year before tiring, then had a bad start, and then obviously didn't give up any runs, but was taken out after 3 innings despite not allowing any runs because his control was so bad. We'll probably need something like him pitching like he did last year, or a young guy coming up and having a surprisingly good Sept for us to have a shot at the playoffs. I don't see the Brewers making it to the end of the season even in a race with Garza pitching..in any capacity.

Didn't realize that Cutch had an option... Same here. I thought he was a FA this year. That pretty much ends this thread. One year at 14.5 million for a player like McCutchen? This would be like the Brewers trading Braun had he not had the whole....PED "thing." A beloved face of a franchise. It would be one thing if he was set to become a FA but not with another year left for such a relatively cheap deal.

He hasn't been yet and he might not become one, but he's also not that far away and we know he's a very good fit with this team. I think he's still underrated. 20th in plus/minus, then hurt his hamstring and I think now this next season could be where he takes his game to the next level, gets to the line a bit more and even if he doesn't make an all-star team, I think he's perfect fit with Giannis and Parker. More than anything, I'd like to see one year(preferably with Parker, but that will not be the case) where they don't make any significant changes. And maybe Brodgon doesn't have much room for improvement. Maybe he just improves his D a little more and is able to get a couple more buckets taking it to the hole a game-minimal improvement, but that makes him a pretty nice player. We still really don't know what Thon Maker could become(Kevin Love but a better rim protector or a better defensive version of Frye). Unless it's Wade after he accepts a buyout and decides he is willing to take a 1 year deal to play back in Milwaukee(and a role as a 6th man)...just let this thing grow organically for at least one more year before forcing major changes on a team before you even know what you have exactly.

Do we really need another middling starter? I would just as soon give Jungman another shot if we need someone to fill in for a few starts. He's pitched well down in AAA and at least pitched well before up here. But if we have Anderson, Nelson, Davies and Woodruff coming back in a week and a half I'm guessing we're just stuck with Garza and have to hope he can get through those starts without causing too much damage.

Did you watch those two starts? Nelson got singled to death in both games vs him serving up a bunch of hard hit balls. The start against the Reds had a six run inning where the Reds with two outs had two softly hit grounders which found holes entirely because of the shift and an infield hit, all of which drove in runs instead of ending the inning. Against the Pirates he only allowed three earned runs and every hit he allowed was a single. Against the Reds, 9 of the 11 hits were singles. So 17 of those 19 hits were singles. That's not to say some singles aren't hit hard and off poor pitches, but a lot of those 17 singles were also seeing eye grounders and flares which just happened to end up where defenders weren't. I definitely knew Nelson had been the victim of a lot of slap singles...I hadn't realized it'd had been THAT bad recently. It just seems like not only were there a lot of 2 out hits, there were a lot of 2 strike slap singles that hitters were just dumping the other way. Good on the hitters, but Nelson was still making his pitches. I also think we over complicate matters sometimes. There isn't this giant gulf between the two pitchers. If Anderson's uptick in velocity is legit, then I think his 4 pitch mix gives us two guys who can pitch near the top of a rotation. Watching Nelson and how he's attacked and trusted his stuff this year though makes me even more...annoyed(not really the right word for it) with Peralta. His stuff is at least as good, but he thinks he's got to pitch like a soft tosser and nibble around the edges. No reason he shouldn't be in the title of this thread based on ability.