OnTheBlack

What is the motivation to get rid of a guy who is helping us now for relatively lower ceiling prospects who may or may not help us in the future? Is this all in response to Suters performance? It was nice, but I sure wouldn't count on that moving forward. And given the fact that Hader is the only guy who seems capable of going multiple innings, what's the worst case scenario? We use Davies/Suter out of the pen when Anderson comes back? We have a lot of guys who could pitch in Milwaukee next year like Burnes, Woodruff, Hader and others, but it's just as likely that they struggle next year and take a while to find their footing as big league starters. If it's June next year and Woodruff has shown he can pitch well and Burnes is AAA tearing it up, I'd be alright with a trade then. Making one now when we need pitching depth would just be a baffling move to me.

Well, I'm certainly glad that Stearns isn't as set in his ways to make such a definitive statement about such a young pitcher with such pedestrian stuff. I'm thinking people were probably saying the same thing with a great degree of confidence a few years ago with regard to Wily Peralta who has much better stuff than Davies.

You'd option a guy who since he arrived is 26-13 in 55 starts with a WHIP of 1.316 and a 4.1 WAR in less than 2 full seasons? Heck I think he's the most reliable starter they have. Note I said reliable, not necessarily the best and maybe not the most talented, but certainly the guy with the most savvy, guts, and makeup between the ears. Since he first arrived and shut out the Cubs in Wrigley late in 2015 for 6 innings, Davies has repeatedly shown that he's cool as a cucumber under pressure and that's a talent in itself. Well if I had to make a decision for the start of next year with two months to go this year(why this thread is pointless to me) yes I would. Of course this all could change in the next two months because Davies has pitched really well lately. If that continues he could seal a starting spot next year. The reason I would opt to option Davies(or it could be Suter instead) is because I value keeping all the starting rotation depth that you can. Because injuries are going to happen and usually you get one right off the bat needing your #6 guy right away. If Matt Garza continues to pitch well I am not trading him and sorry for the other two he can't be optioned. That gives him an upper hand on a rotational spot. Brent Suter is a nice story, but I don't want to depend on him. Could be destined for a Taylor Jungmann type free fall. We haven't traded any starting rotation depth away and had Michael Blazek get a start the other day. Trade one of those guys away and we could be giving even more starts to the Blazek types next year. A lot of people assume Josh Hader will be ready for the rotation next year, but I don't think he will EVER be available to take a rotational spot next year Due to going to the bullpen he will end up with under 100 IP this year. Good luck putting him in the rotation next year he will be done by August. If we actually still think he is a starter long term he will be in the minors all next year till he hits an innings limit. This is all pre mature though as we need to see what our current starters do the next two months to even have an idea. I ball at the idea we have that much depth. Most guys are simply not ready or will hit an innings limit before the end of next year. I don't consider it depth if it is going to get shut down well before the season ends. We could run into big problems late in the season if injuries start to hit and all our depth is maxed out on their innings. Also concerns me our depth is mostly in AA right now so if you need them early in the season they are quite inexperienced. There's a little more to the equation than just IP. He's moved to the BP which means he's been throwing more than just the numbers of innings he's pitched. This is a guy who's thrown 120+ innings the last 3 years. I doubt the Brewers are going to watch him excel in the big leagues and then send him back down to AAA for a year to get his innings up. It's more likely they start him in the BP next year and then move him to the rotation to keep his innings down. But based on what Stearns has said, it's sure sounds like he's going to be a frontrunner for the rotation next year.

I'd actually prefer they waited. If they're tied or behind the Cubs by the time the deadline comes, I don't see any point in trying to add anyone. Wait? The Cubs are likely to be ahead of us by the end of the week or at the very least by the end of the series against the Nats. Ok, if this is true...neither of us have absolutely any idea if it is since the Brewers have bounced back time and time again from small losing streaks, then I don't think anyone we add is gonna make a difference. Which would mean giving up prospects just to watch the Cubs pull away. If we're behind the Cubs at the end of the week, then Sonny Gray or whoever we add short of a legitimate ace isn't going to matter.

So...people in favor of a machine aren't looking for one that just guesses? I have no idea what you are asking here . You know they have the technology to call the zone with totsl accuracy, right? Are you being serious? Yeah, I understand that.....I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't being serious. A bad call is annoying. It doesn't mean I'd prefer to rely on a machine to call strikes and take a great deal of the nuance out of pitching and catching.

I'd actually prefer they waited. If they're tied or behind the Cubs by the time the deadline comes, I don't see any point in trying to add anyone.

That would be a lot better without the call on Santana in the 3rd and then the CS by Perez. I can't understand the later, the prior though just made no sense. I'm also unsure why that play wouldn't be review-able. Didn't they get 6 straight hits in that inning, the last 2 coming with 2 out?

So...people in favor of a machine aren't looking for one that just guesses?

The umpire would still be there to actually call the strike. Yeah I got that, my problem isn't with who actually says strike, it's with a machine determining it.

It's frustrating, but I just can't stand the idea of having a machine call strikes. Should Arcia be on the move here in right away?

Lugo was 4th in the D-backs top 15 and Alcantara was 15th. A pretty insignificant return, especially for the Dbacks system though.

Yeah, really hate to hear the Brewers announcers sticking up for the Brewers players.... I'm just saying, he's making it sound like the worst call in the world when it's not even the worst call in the game and he constantly harps on the "too close to take" on pitches that are off the plate but now, somehow, it's different. Like umpires, be consistent. If you're going to say it's too close to take for an opponent, then it's too close for Shaw to take. It's not the worst call in the game because of the phantom call at 2nd. It was still a terrible call. And he's a fan and a former player. He's with these guys 162 games a year. Obviously he has an emotional investment in the game. And it's not at all like the Umpires. He made a comment. The Umps have a direct impact on the game.

Drives me up the wall. It's a ball. Call it a damn ball. And if he swings he's not doing anything anyway. He's gonna either swing through it or he's going to hit a weak ground ball on a 97 MPH fastball down and away.

Yeah, really hate to hear the Brewers announcers sticking up for the Brewers players....

Heard that two weeks ago. Take a breather people. Agreed. Obviously being a Brewer fan it's easy to be pessimistic, but there is so much of the season left. That's kinda why I'm pessimistic...

Heard that two weeks ago. Take a breather people. I've thought that about a dozen times this year. So far every time the Brewers have looked bad for a stretch, they've bounced back and run off 3 or 4 in a row. Hard to see that continuing without another reliever or two emerging though...

Could that possibly be the voice in the back of your head just jumping to that conclusion because the fact that this team is even near .500 at this point is a surprise? We'll see how this one finishes up, but at the very least, despite losing it in the 6th Guerra was extremely encouraging tonight. Velocity was good, movement was excellent...so I'll feel better about him moving forward.

Anderson is the guy that I'm surprised by...though less than others. I was going to post a link, but I just recently read an article from fangraphs that was from before the season that had 10 bold predictions across MLB. Two were Brewers related and both were dead on, one was Arcia was going to out produce Aledmys Díaz this year and the other was that Anderson was going to finally pitch to his potential. I guess I never viewed him as having this type of potential, but he definitely did. That 2011 team was more proven, they were deeper with proven pitchers(Grienke was arguably the 4th best pitcher that one year). You also had Weeks, Hart, Braun and Prince all having career years or near career years. I don't think this years team can match that team. This current team has definitely has a more balanced attack, but they don't have that MVP in the middle of the order, they don't have that guy like Prince with a .400 OBP. That said, this year might be the most fun I've had watching the Brewers. If they don't make the playoffs or add anyone that won't change. If the 2011 team didn't make the playoffs that would have been a huge letdown. Of course back in 2011 I still believed Mat Gamel would end up hitting like Ben Gamel currently is.

Rich Hill? You're talking about how much I'm buying into Nelson, but you're telling me that Rich Hill is better than Nelson? Beyond that, I'm curious why you're having so much trouble accepting Nelson this year, but just accept these other guys who are having breakout years are better than him? Walker? What exactly makes Walker better than Nelson? His FIP is half a run better than Ray's. Obviously he'd be #4 on the Nats...the Nats have 3 aces, that's the only team. You have to really stretch to make that argument for the D-backs and Dodgers and he's pitching as well as anyone on the Cubs this year.

I don't see how anyone could make a comp between Nelson and Guerra from last year. One was a 2nd round pick who'd had at least some success every step of the way, the other was a 31 year old pitcher from independent ball. And as for Villar, people are writing him off this year the same way people wrote Segura off after he struggled his second year with the Brewers. In fact people were questioning if Arica could hit enough to be a valuable player next year. I don't think any of these guys are franchise type players by any means, but valuable pieces? Yeah...I don't see how you get that Nelson is a #4 unless you've got Kershaw, Grienke and Scherzer in your rotation. He's a solid #2 starter. A low end ace, but a solid 2. Shaw I would guess is probably playing about as well as he can defensively, but I think he can be a top 5 offensive 3rd basemen in the NL and Santana...he's the most replaceable, but he's only 24 years old. I think we should be able to get a few 280/360 30 HR years out of him. I would say the only core pieces at this time are Arcia and Nelson. And I wouldn't go out on a limb to sign either to extensions unless we can get team friendly deals for both. Especially Nelson given we have him under control until he's 31.

Because getting rid of a bad player and then signing another bad player to the same contract is stupid? Yeah, Rose isn't a "bad player." That's just ridiculous. I don't think he's a good fit with this team, but saying he's a bad player is just overstating it. And I could at least see Rose having a role on this team. I could see him being a scorer off the bench. Henson doesn't have any role.

Houston had a bullpen crunch and wanted to ditch some salary, that's why they practically gave him away. Pat's been pretty solid his whole career but has always played second fiddle for the closers role. If some team would have given him the 9th in his past, he's one of if not the top relief arm available. He's probably pretty close to the top arm as it stands. Look at what we got for Thornburg and Smith(hard to saw what we got for Jeffress.) With the demand for relievers, I don't see how we pick up a guy with an ERA of 1.24 and a whip well under 1.00 for our 3rd best AAA OF'er(Phillips is up now, but with him down) and a low level flyer. I'm guessing it'll take a top 100 prospect(like Bickford was). Philly isn't gonna want fringe prospects for Neshak...IMO. We'll have to see.

Not by me. He's had really good stretches before. I'd rather give him a few starts than make some of these proposed moves. He has pitched well in Colorado Springs this year..for whatever that's worth. It's really too bad that Peralta can't pitch with Nelson's aggressive approach. His stuff is as good. He's just constantly trying to nibble..which makes no sense to me with a mid 90's fastball that has good life. But I think we've seen the last of him. Probably both of them, but I do agree, at least give Jungman a shot if you need a starter. I also do like the idea of waiting a couple weeks. I'd like to see if the last 3 games by the Cubs were their bats starting to wake up or them facing a bad team.

Sure right now there wouldn't be a big dent in the bullpen if he was traded, but again he has performed when his number is called. Please don't tell me you believe Lopez can be as effective as Hader is right now. And no that is not why I said I wouldn't trade him. I said he would be (is) a key piece meaning I wouldn't trade him because of where he is now and what his ceiling is. He has performed when his number is called, despite the ridiculous number of walks but again, let's look at when he's been called upon. Game 1: Brewers are losing 3-2 to the Diamondbacks. To his credit, he didn't allow a run in his inning keeping the Brewers well within striking distance. Game 2: Came in with runners on 1st and 3rd with 2 outs and the Brewers leading 5-4. Threw two pitches and got out of the inning when Pina threw out Fowler trying to steal 2nd. He literally had to do nothing in this appearance despite pitching. Game 3: Pitched a scoreless 6th and 7th inning a tie game. The Brewers would end up scoring two in the 9th to secure a win. Maybe Blazek or Lopez give up a run or more if they were asked to pitch two innings in this situation. Maybe they pitch two scoreless innings. Game 4: Comes in with the Brewers trailing 7-2 and pitches two solid innings. Brewers end up losing 7-3. Game 5: Pitches a scoreless 7th with the Brewers trailing 3-1. Brewers end up losing 3-1. Game 6: Comes in with the Brewers trailing 3-2 and pitches two scoreless innings. Brewers end up tying the game at 3 but Knebel blows the game in the 8th and the Brewers end up losing 4-3. Game 7: Pitches a scoreless inning with the Brewers leading 7-4. Brewers end up winning 8-4. Game 8: Comes in with the Brewers trailing 3-2 after a rain delay. Gives up a homer to make it 4-2 but the Brewers come back and that's the only blemish in his three innings. This appearance might be difficult to replace but with Blazek starting in the minors, it's possible that he would be able to give us 3 innings if need be. Game 9: Comes in with the Brewers leading 9-6 with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. Strikes out the two batters he faces in the 7th to keep the run off the board. Walks the leadoff hitter in the 8th and gets taken out. It's nice that he didn't allow the runner on 3rd to score with 1 out but even if he (or any other pitcher) did, it's still a two run lead. Sorry, you're just going to have a really hard time convincing me that Hader isn't replaceable with the way he's being used now. That's not Hader's fault but he's also not an irreplaceable piece of the bullpen right now. I'm not seeing how this is proving the poster you quoted wrong. His words were "I said he would be (is) a key piece meaning I wouldn't trade him because of where he is now and what his ceiling is." So evidence that they brought Hader along slowly in his first couple Major League outings and that he's come in to several close games and almost everytime kept the Brewers in a position to come back doesn't in any way disprove that he has a high ceiling or that he is becoming a key piece of our pen. Plus....even he hadn't come up and given up 1 run in his first 13 innings...or whatever it's been with a K per IP(and roughly 1 BB as well)...even if he had a ERA of 10 thus far. Doesn't that mean we should trade a guy like him? For years I've read how we can't develop left handed starting pitching or complaining in the draft threads because we're not drafting enough left handers. Well...we've got a left handed power pitcher now who is young, controllable for 6 years and who could be a good starter or high leverage reliever. By this logic(listing the situations he's come into)...man, Brinson should be all but given away. See if someone will throw us a bone there because he's been awful in the few games he's played in Milwaukee. Arcia was pretty awful for us both the first couple months when he came up last year as well as this year. But Hader's actually been good, he's just been eased in. Just as much as that though, I don't think Gray is gonna make much difference if the Cubs really get rolling. I think he makes even less if they don't but we run into the Dodgers or even the Nats if we do hand on and get into to the playoffs.

You snooze you lose...the longer he waits, the more likely it becomes someone else swoops in and grabs Gray or whoever else his targets are. You panic and overreact because of what the Cubs did and you lose a helluva lot more than if you move forward cautiously for a week.