MNBrew

I look at it like this. While this season losing wasn't fun, but it was like watching your kid go through a tough season but mature and grow before your eyes. Lots of positives to take from an 89 loss season. Whether you want to look at it that way is your call. Here's a similar way to word that: Yes, 89 losses sure weren't fun. Inevitably, lots of aspects of it weren't good. However, there were enough positives and reasons for optimism to make it pretty interesting much for much of the time. I'm not sure in other similarly crappy Brewers seasons -- at least post-1990 -- we had as many plusses as the MLB SB leader & being the top NL SB team (with huge success rates from many guys), NL co-HR champ, one of the best rotations from mid-August onward, guys who went to AAA and redeemed their crappy initial MLB work this year with great work post-callup (Broxton & Peralta, especially), AND a nice increase in our pool of upper-end prospects and a farm system viewed as one of the tops in all of baseball.

I wasn't actively thinking this as I typed, but I realized there were two caveats in the thinking behind my post (#40 in this thread) to which your response here was directed: 1. I wasn't going to speculate on who might come back to MIL in any trade. 2. Similarly, I also wasn't going to speculate on whomever else the Brewers might acquire by means other than trades. Thus, Rivera is currently the closest-to-MLB-ready middle IF the Brewers have in the minors (on the fringes of being regular 25-man roster "piece"). Maybe that clarification helps establish a clearer context for my comments. A zillion things could cause his status to change. But I have no idea what the specifics of any of those may be, so I just left the speculation alone. As someone else said, Nieuwenhuis has been around the MLB block enough to be a known commodity. He's had plenty of chances, and plenty of guys are coming up behind him. Rivera's still in more of a "getting his feet wet" stage, though he's also been generally unspectacular enough that it may not take much for him to be made redundant or included in a trade as something of a "round out the deal" throw-in.

The final boxscore has Santana's OPS at .792.

My thoughts largely echo what RoCoBrewfan just stated: I'd suspect most of the 25-man roster will look like it does now. My hope is for a few changes around the edges (mainly the bench). PREDICTIONS/HOPES It seems like these guys could be gone from the current roster: Garza, Scooter, Maldonado, Braun, one of Knebel/Blazek, Nieuwenhuis (please!), Elmore (please!). Of all those, I especially hope Braun's NOT and I hope he's a Brewer for his whole career. I think a Scooter trade happens, but later than sooner. Maldonado's a respectable backup. If he's here, okay. Given the dearth of decent catching out there, he's someone who might have a little trade value, especially if paired with a decent arm or additional player (Scooter? Garza?). COMMENTS - I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with an Aaron Hill equivalent (overpaid, previously proven vet) on the Opening Day roster. - I think Rivera (IF) & Perez (Super U) deserve to be shoo-ins as backups next year. - We've gotta have at least one better 4th (& 5th) OF option than Nieuwenhuis or Flores (or especially Elmore, who's really only a middle IF). Your 4th OF has to be someone you're comfortable seeing start 100 games in case a starter gets injured. - I think it's a sure thing Rymer Liriano is activated, outrighted off the 40-man, and becomes a spring training NRI at most.

Different angle than the above: While after tonight's win against the Cubs, the Brewers are now "only" 15 games under .500 (62-77), it's also worth noting that both the Cubs & especially St. Louis are kind of in their heads -- a combined 8-21 against those 2 teams. Add into that 1-5 vs. SF, 2-5 vs. both the Mets & Dodgers and it's not too hard to see that the Brewers' biggest struggles have been against most of the NL's top teams this year, but otherwise they've held their own with dignity. What that says to me is that we're not that bad of a team overall and it may not be too long before the improving MLB product and large waves of talented young players from the now-good farm system make for a Brewers team that could be in position to contend both sooner than expected and for a good while. I get that the Cubs & Cardinals are generally loaded. The Brewers can neither control them nor worry much about what those teams do, just about doing what they need to do themselves and let their play start to force the issue with the other teams. . . . Anyway, two things encourage me about their current record in context with their record vs. the Cubs & Cardinals: 1. For a rebuild, this could sure be a whole lot more painful than it is -- witness the Twins and their horribly underperforming SPs and mostly AAA-type bullpen that are totally killing them. 2. To be where the Brewers are considering how lost & lousy most of the rotation was for the first part of the year also gives me reason for hope. The 2nd half pitching's been better, and it's hard to imagine that a little improvement on D, a few fewer Ks, and a bit better RISP wouldn't make a nice cumulative difference... ditto with less Walsh, Flores, Nieuwenhuis, & 1st-half Broxton .... all this with lots more talent on the way.

I'm going to detour into a related but minor point that's one of my pet peeves: I definitely agree with the Brewers' need for significant defensive improvement, but Braun's a respectable LF and I just don't get the constant assertions that he's this lousy defender. I've been watching a lot of baseball very attentively and reading about it for over 35 years and I've watched Braun in LF quite a lot. I'm not a "stats crowd" guy which I'm sure frustrates some of you occasionally about my posts, but I'm also neither blind nor clueless. Braun's not Willie Mays, but over his career he also has made a zillion fewer boneheaded plays than defensively adored Gold Glover Carlos Gomez and he's far closer to Gomez defensively than anywhere near the Izzy Alcantara/Yuni B end of the defensive spectrum. . . . Even if Braun were to grade out as a little below average by some statistical measures -- keeping in mind that defensive metrics are still somewhat subjective and a lot less reliable than offensive ones -- it's not like he costs the Brewers much of anything negative with his defense -- not in terms of "deep stats" measurables, but the obvious outcomes like W-L, runs against, etc. Some like to nitpick routes to the ball or other minor things like they're more crucial than they are and like they're perfect indicators of eventual outcomes, but they're just not. What ultimately matters most is whether or not a guy makes the plays he needs to make. "Pretty" and "effective" are neither synonymous nor a required pairing in terms of indicating successful outcomes (though a good pairing of those two things surely beats the alternative). Braun makes a few errors, but so does everyone else including the best defensive players. In all, Braun makes the plays he needs to make. Is Braun a lesser defensive player than an offensive player? Of course - no argument there, if for no other reason than that his offensive game is still pretty elite. Is there room for defensive improvement? Like every other player, of course. I figure a rant like this presents quite a target and sets off fireworks in some folks' heads. All right, have at it... and keep in mind that I still agree overall with the assertion that Brewers' league-worst defense must improve significantly next year.

It seems the first inclination for many of us is that the short bench is an implication of the Brewers' minor league hitters -- at least those currently on the 40-man roster. It does seem curious how/why they're so stuck on some of the guys currently (Elmore stands out, maybe Kirk N., too) or previously (Flores, for one) on the MLB team when there are oodles of other guys that might deserve a look, whether they're prospects (Reed, for instance) or former prospects (Cecchini, etc.). Maybe Stearns has some positive intentions that aren't what we'd predict with some of those still in the minors -- not that it would be obvious to us as fans... or maybe not.

And the odds that we're going to have 3 repeat All-Stars is also sadly pretty low. OFs like the mid/late-'80s Blue Jays or the 1990-ish Pirates' teams just don't come around that often. It seems quite evident that the idea behind the Stearns mantra of acquiring as much young, controllable talent as possible is really about improving your team's odds. Every time tries to improve their odds. Not all do it by the same method. Not all teams have the means to accomplish it to the extent they'd hope. And there's no sure-fire way to guarantee that good odds will yield the desired results on the field. While we'll all have our opinions on most players, none of us has a crystal ball. I'm intrigued by Cordell but I'm not convinced of anything about him, good or bad. With him, as with all these guys acquired in the various trades & recent drafts, I'm going to be very curious to find out how these guys develop & how the Brewers' future unfolds.

That's why I said, "for now." In a few different places I'd read about the Brewers' roster expansion, their DL activations were sort of talked about as callups, too, and it bothered me because it's not accurate.

So far there's only one callup: Ben Rowen. Guerra, Barnes, and now Blazek are all DL activations. Obviously it's all in the greater realm of September roster expansion, but DL activations in a season like this aren't nearly as interesting as callups.

"You act like..." is a rather presumptive statement. I wasn't addressing anything about a callup now hindering or helping their development. Your point seems highly focused on their MLB service time - a very important point. However, my point is simply that if they're called up now, it still doesn't guarantee they still won't end up back in the minors for enough time that the team would still regain the advantage of the extra year of control. It might not happen, but it also very well could. Recent example: Wily Peralta spent all of 2014-15 in the Brewers' rotation but earned a demotion to AAA for a couple months (he made 10 starts) -- more than enough to offset the 33 days he had toward the next complete year of service time entering this season. So instead of being FA-eligible after 2018 as he would've been coming into this year (assuming only full years of MLB service time lay ahead of him), now he won't be eligible for free agency until after 2019 at the earliest. If Hader & Brinson simply need to be done for the season (innings limits, fatigue risks, or whatever), or if their chances for playing time in Milwaukee would be highly limited, then you don't recall them. It's that simple. If those considerations aren't in play, it's very obvious Stearns is extremely bright and generally has yet to make an overtly stupid decision, so you've gotta figure he'd be giving significant weight to any service time considerations. (Translated: If David Stearns feels those guys should come up now, then I trust him enough to believe it's probably a good decision.)

There's still no guarantee that just because they've been called up, they're certain never to be sent down again. I get the point of caution re: service time & the arbitration clock, but I'd rather have them producing in Milwaukee than worrying about their service time before they've proven in MLB that the "can't miss" label was correct. I get the point of caution, but up here in Twins Territory I can't remember the last "can't miss" guy who never got sent back down after his first call up. Might've been Joe Mauer. However, there have been plenty of blue-chip guys since him who've gone back to AAA (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, & Berrios alone this year).

Well, nobody called Eric Young. It's about the magic hour & I only hear crickets.

Most -- or arguably even all, depending on your point of view -- of the obvious trade candidates are gone, but I wonder if Stearns might have a small trick or two up his sleeve for tomorrow. My hope is that they get something in return (even if it's just a medium-sized bag of peanuts) for Blaine Boyer. If that and only that happens, I'd be pleased, though if I were to handicap it, I think they actually won't make any deals. I'm not too fond of Corey Knebel's post-DL work, either, and I'd gladly turn him around for someone else, but that may be more likely in the offseason or, if he improves, in late July of 2017. Any guesses?

I might be wrong, but I believe the rule's something like this: If it's a guy's 1st outright assignment within his first few years in the bigs, he has no choice to accept it. Middlebrooks was just outrighted after being activated from a minor-league rehab assignment. He may have needed to clear waivers first, but usually when someone's DFA'd, the news is well-leaked. There was no trace of that today.

I'm not sure how to tackle the years beyond 2017 -- too many variables. Disclaimer: This is a pretty off-the-cuff response. I may feel very differently a month from now. (Note on the post immediately above: Zack Jones was returned to the Twins a while ago.) C: Pina/Susac 1B: Carter 2B: Perez SS: Arcia 3B: Villar LF: Braun CF: Broxton RF: Santana Bench: Susac/Pina, Rivera, Nieuwenhuis or an equivalent quasi-"proven" guy (hopefully not KN), and two others (maybe Wren or Reed & a waiver claim) Rotation: *Garza, Davies, Peralta, Guerra, Nelson SP or RP: Jungmann, Suter, Cravy Bullpen: Thornburg, Knebel, Torres, Marinez, Barnes, & Magnifico/Burgos/Wang * I know that's 26, but I'd hope Garza's gone & either Cravy, Magnifico, Wang, or Burgos earns that spot. I'd also love Hader to push his way into the picture, but any of a number of prospects could do that including Jorge Lopez. Potentially/hopefully moved: Blaine Boyer (hopefully in the next day or two, & he's a FA anyway) Gennett Garza Maldonado Anderson I get the logic of Barrios & Houser getting outrighted to AAA since they've missed mcuh/all of this year (DFA not necessary on either, I don't think, since it would be each's first outright assignment). I don't think Rymer Liriano is on the MLB roster after a full year of not playing, plus hardly playing in the bigs before -- sure, he's out of options, but no one's going to guarantee him a 40-man spot over the winter. Obviously a zillion things could impact this, and none of this considers the return in any possible trades, either. Still, it's been a losing year and thinking ahead is at least kind of fun.

Given how hitting in Colorado Springs was going this year, I don't think most folks on this board seriously expected him to look like an accomplished major leaguer or budding All-Star in this first taste of the majors -- though of course no one would've complained if he did. I think the logic for bringing him up wasn't because he was totally MLB-ready, rather because he was ready to be pushed to up his game to the major-league level, and I'd think that's hard to do at AAA in late July when you've already been in AAA all year.

IF Wily continues to pitch as well as he has in August -- of course there are no guarantees -- he's certainly a better pitcher for the rotation than, say, Chase Anderson, and probably also Matt Garza, perhaps even Jimmy Nelson given his current trajectory (lately reminiscent of Mike Fiers' late-season rookie slide). However, that supposition still has a couple layers: - Not everyone currently in the rotation is guaranteed to be there next year. - Anderson might lose his spot because others are better. - Or he might still be there next year because someone "above him" in the talent/pecking order was traded. - Or he himself could be traded, whether as the main piece in a small deal or a complementary piece in a bigger deal. - Garza could be bought out or traded (if the latter, probably not for a stellar return or at least for next winter's version of Aaron Hill's onerous/bloated contract). - The reasons behind trades could be as varied as the reasons noted above -- performance good or bad, just losing out, clearing a roster spot, etc.

Peralta's lousy 2015 and even lousier start to 2016 can't help his case much in arby even with his August rebound (arby's based more on the 2 most recent years rather than solely on the one just completed, right?). That said, if he continues to pitch anywhere close to how he has so far since his recall, I think there's no way the Brewers non-tender him. It's not like he's going to be overly expensive and it's not like they're hurting w/ regard to payroll (no surprise) and attendance (for a team in the earlier stages of rebuilding). I'd also suspect he & the Brewers would agree on a contract before actually getting to a hearing. For a guy with three more years (at least) of team control, a huge arm, and still a decent ceiling if he can continue to get his game back at the MLB level, he may well be in next year's rotation. Another scenario is that he's a very appealing trade chip, especially if the FA market for SPs is as stark as projected.

Good BA, respectable power, decent run production, good SB numbers and success rate, good defense at several positions.... He has areas that need improvement just like most every player, but I don't think a sub-standard walk rate outweighs the sum of the other successes so far or means he's a guy you sell high on the first chance you get. I still want to see this over a few years from Perez before I'll let go of some of my reservations, too, but the improvement shown, at minimum, is definitely worth enjoying and, optimistically, is pretty encouraging for the rest of this year and beyond. Whether Perez amounts to being a short-term placeholder capable of the occasional nice stretch or if he turns into a significant piece going forward (and whether that means as a Brewer over the longer term or as someone able to net something of decent value in return), he's at least a pretty positive contributor who's showing improvement on a team that could use more players playing like he is. That rates him ahead of at least 1/3 of the position players who've spent a decent chunk of time on the Brewers' roster this year (Flores, Kirk N., Maldonado, Elmore, Broxton until this last stint in MLB, Wilkins, Middlebrooks, etc.).

I was at Woodard's debut. They swept the doubleheader that day. It was really exciting because of how well he pitched, the fact that he out-pitched Roger Clemens, and they won, 1-0. In the 2nd game, the Brewers turned a triple play (Cirillo-Loretta-Nilsson -- I loved that IF w/ those guys and Vina!), got 19 hits, and also won, 9-3. 1st game box score: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL199707281.shtml 2nd game box scores (note the highly forgettable pitchers): http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL199707282.shtml

No, not worse than Elmore. And his name is Oswaldo, not Oswald (not sure how to fix that in the thread title).

Blazek sure has been lousy since he returned from the DL. On at least some level it's encouraging that he's injured and not just terrible.

I'd be at least mildly surprised if they added anyone who's not already on the 40-man roster, if only because they've been reluctant to remove many folks from it this year (not counting the 60-day DL). It's currently full so they'd have to remove someone for everyone they'd add. Once the season's over, some guys who are kept now will surely be goners because there's a whole new set of moves to be made. I think this FO has been pretty deliberate & calculated about who they promote when, and why (Arcia & Coulter come to mind). They've also sent Youngmann from MLB to AAA to AA and top SP prospect Lopez from AAA to AA -- obviously with good reason, but not what fans would hope to see those players deserve. I don't think any of those moves were made with fans in mind -- in fact, I'd think such motivation for promotion/demotion is blatantly antithetical to how David Stearns operates. It's also worth remembering that just because Arcia's up now doesn't mean he's up for good, whether that means this year or next.

I always look forward to September roster expansion. Too much thinking at this time of night to start my own thoughts so I'll react to LouisEly's nice starting post: - I agree that DL activations may well outnumber minor-league callups. - I think Susac & Jungmann are sort of no-brainers. In a vacuum, Goforth & Cravy should be, too, as they've been up in the bigs many times. But Goforth stinks worse the more chances he gets this year, and Cravy keeps on NOT getting called up when Goforth keeps getting summoned. - Lopez might get the call, too, if only to make sure his head's not a mess and to set a good direction for him this off-season. - Maybe Ben Rowen gets a chance since at some point they'll want to see what they have in him (not unlike Scahill's chance now). - I think Rivera comes up. He deserves playing time in September far more than Middlebrooks or Elmore. - For that matter, I could see Middlebrooks even losing his 40-man spot sooner than later. There wasn't anything he did very well at the MLB before he was injured except make outs. - It's hard to get a read on if there would be much of a market for Boyer and/or Torres, and I'd think there's as much of a chance they're Brewers 'til the season's over as there is that one or both are dealt. - I've seen more than enough of Ramon Flores and would welcome Michael Reed on the roster in his place. For that matter, I'd also love to see Kyle Wren take Flores' roster spot, but I'm not going to dwell on potential 40-man additions. Suffice it to say, I liked Flores' promise coming into the season but there's been precious little blooming on this flower (multi-lingual pun intended). Summarizing... Likely: Susac, Jungmann, Rivera Maybe: Reed, Cravy, Lopez, Rowen, Magnifico, maybe even Cecchini if Middlebrooks is gone (and I suppose possibly Goforth, though I can't imagine them continuing to give him more chances this year)