TheCrew07

I intentionally don't mention him when talking about pitching prospects because I have no idea what to make of him, but he's absolutely a prospect by any measure. He has one of the 10 best arms in all of the Minor Leagues who maintains his velocity very well. He'll remain a prospect and rightly so, until he gets a lifetime ban which seems very unlikely at this juncture. 2 years ago who would have thought Jones and Rogers would be pitching a higher level than Jeffress? On a side note when Jeffress ultimately gets promoted to AA there will be 4 1st round draft picks on that team. edit. Fixed worst typing ever.

The T-Rats drop another 1 run game. *sigh*

It would be nice if Fatse and Dennis got going again for the T-Rats, both have been slumping for a while now. Actually as I look at the T-Rat lineup, Dennis is getting a day off and Dykstra is starting at 1B.

For what it's worth my father who played D1 baseball didn't have anything good to say about Garfield and Romero in the field after watching them play today. He was very critical of Garfield's play around the plate, and apparently Cameron wasn't able to get a runner stealing second on a pitch out either. The T-Rats are in extras during game 2 now in the 10th, tune on in.

Parra is so frustrating.

Yikes Richardson just got ear holed in the bottom of the 6th, maybe a bit lower on the helmet in the jaw area.

Gallardo's pitch counts were outrageous last season before Peterson reigned him in. Escobar is basically being punished for every cold streak which compounds the situation. I don't have time to delve deep into peak performance right now, but Macha basically creates the anti peak environment for prospects with his over emphasis on production.

Am I biased or does Mark Rogers generally always give an insightful tidbit or 2? I really like the fact he thinks he can always get his FB located for a strike.

* Side note, I have no idea why but responding to your posts somehow messes with my font and font size. I apologize in advance if this is hard to read. I spent quite a bit of time of fixing the last one as best as I could, I'm going to save the time on this post. I think you have to evaluate who was available and in the context of that time frame. Marcum had less service time than Bush at the time of the trade, but he topped out around 91 MPH where Bush was 89, he was 2 years younger and had pitched himself all the way to AAA, the only thing Bush had over Marcum was more MLB experience. Obviously I think you know me well enough to know that I would have preferred Marcum because his stuff was a tick better on all his pitches, his K and BB rates were better, and he was the younger pitcher of the 2. Can I say for sure that Marcum would have been available, well obviously not. However given the context of that time frame, what was the difference between Bush and Marcum in a GM's eye other than MLB experience? Similar pitches, similar velocity, similar mound presence, both would ultimately be pitchability guys... I think Melvin definitely chose MLB experience over slightly better potential upside, and I think he further demonstrated that notion with Jackson and Gross, 2 high floor/low ceiling type players. Also recall that Overbay wasn't the only piece Milwaukee sent Toronto's way, we also sent our own pitchability type starting pitcher in Ty Taubenheim. I would have been happier at the time with Overbay for Marcum straight up than I am with the original deal, even with the benefit of hind sight considering Marcum lost a year with TJ surgery. For an organization that lacked impact pitching at every level, I think taking the highest possible upside should be the preferred route. I would have been fine with Overbay and Taubenheim for Dustin McGowan as a deal as well, he was the #48 prospect in all of baseball at a time when pitching prospects and prospects in general weren't highly valued the way they are now. he had a live a great stuff, but had been stalled out in AA for 3 years, I would have liked to see what would have happened with him pitching under Maddux. As it turned out that would have been a pretty bad trade for Milwaukee, but I could have lived with it for the reasons previously mentioned. The more I saw Gross play, read about Jackson, and saw out of Bush, the less I liked that deal. I was very high on the trade initially because I honestly didn't know much about prospects and how to evaluate them at the time. I automatically thought being drafted in the first round meant that you were very talented like in the NFL draft, at the time I didn't realize that teams would make "safe" picks hoping to push those players quickly to MLB, which is definitely what Gross, Jackson, and Bush were as players. Ultimately the more I reflected on the trade and stats of the players we acquired, the more I just ended up thinking "that's it?" That trade, coupled with the failures of Hendrickson, Eveland, and Sarfate really piqued my interest in pitching, I didn't want to be fooled anymore by hype, I wanted to form my own opinions. That's when I started digging into pitching, switched my reading from BP to BA, and started investigating other minor league systems and how teams were being built. The team building concepts led me into thinking about value and evaluating the FA market, and by 2008 I had a pretty good idea what direction I thought the franchise needed to head, and TB taking off has only reinforced my initial gut feeling once I realized what was going on. TB is my poster boy franchise for how to build an MLB team, and will likely remain so until the economics of baseball drastically change. A note on Garza, I feel badly for MN, at the time of the trade they were actually getting the player with the higher upside back in Young, that was pretty even value going both ways much like the Volquez/Hamilton deal which hasn't worked out so well for Cincy thanks to Dusty, even though I thought the talent moving both ways was pretty even. I bring up a guy like Niemann because I really wanted him and TB couldn't move him at the deadline in 08, he should have been fairly simple to acquire. Given what Jackson was acquired for, I would have definitely traded for him as well. I'm still shocked they didn't move Sonnanstine, I never was very high on him as a starting pitcher, stuff was he certainly the odd man out between the guys on the staff and the players in waiting, but he's been pretty good for them out of the pen this year. I bring up trading a guy like Hart because he was drawing significant interest from teams like Atlanta and San Fran when he was playing well and his talent was replaceable. I brought up Hardy because he was a 4 WAR player with a capable replacement in the minors and we had just lost Sheets and Sabathia, definitely a bold idea and one that is still misunderstood by many. In my little world it was simple, I was trying to give value to get value. I'm willing to trade Prince because I don't think there is any way he will sign a contract extension with Milwaukee and I do not want more nebulous draft pick compensation at this time. I think the theory behind trading McGehee is sound, his talent is replaceable from the system. Again I'm looking to give value to get value. In the end I think the biggest difference here is that all I care about is pitching, pitching, pitching. I'm not into the handedness of the lineup and I'm not married to any player I don't consider to be an elite talent which is why even though Hart and Hardy were 2 of my favorite players, I was willing to trade them for pitching. If we miss the window for signing a player to a team friendly extension, my focus immediately shifts to how to get the most possible value out of that player, such as the case with Fielder and Hardy. I firmly believe that starting pitching is the best way for a small market team to compete yearly with the big boys, and I will argue all points to that end. I will add that I was also in favor of the proposed Hart extension prior to the Sabathia trade, but once that trade went down I had to adjust my philosophy some. My original plan was to use LaPorta and Co. to acquire a young stud on the rise, once those assets were gone, I began looking at moving MLB talent for impact pitching prospects, because once again I believe impact pitching to be the key for sustained small market success. Lastly, if Melvin had made a single move for an impact starting pitcher it would be easier for me to believe he has been actively pursuing impact pitching and just hasn't been able to swing a deal. However, given his trade history and general lack of activity in the impact pitching department, the lack of activity itself is evidence enough for me... there's no trend to support the notion he's even been looking to upgrade the rotation since 2007, it's been the same pattern repeating itself year after year. And truthfully if he has been trying to swing a deal and hasn't been able to get one done, then he's not a very good salesman and he's still not a good fit for a small market team. If he can't deal for impact talent, then he needs to be able to buy it on the Free Agent market, he doesn't have the money to spend on FAs being in Milwaukee, and his FA record in Milwaukee is pretty miserable, but I already hashed that out in a different thread.

I have nothing to add beyond what I posted in the link report in the minor league forum, however this comment made me laugh so I felt obligated to respond.

Honestly I would rather have Yost, he's much better with young talent than Macha is, and this team is going to need significant contributions from young talent. As I previously said, Macha is the first Brewer manager I truly despised... ever... so I'd pretty much take anyone over him other than Royster who obviously so over matched by the position I just couldn't get upset at him. I think Ned is a good hire for KC, and if he learned anything upon reflection of his time in Milwaukee he'll be a better manager for them than he was for us.

No doubt I refreshed the Nashville box score finally, I was making a big post on the MLB forum while listening to the T-Rats. If Cappy has his lost velocity back from last season, I wonder what the deal was? Very excited for him though, he's certainly bucking the odds to this point, I just hope the elbow holds up for him for a couple of years. edit. Rivas is pitching well but losing, the Stars only have 3 hits. edit 2. Scarpetta had a better outing with the BBs today, but gave up 7 hits and 4 runs, all 4 runs in the 1st. Bucci pitched well for WI, and Howell is getting Strike Outs lately, I think he's coming around.

To each his own I guess. He didn't reach outside the organization, he just hired the best available candidate from within the organization, a rather reactionary move in my opinion. I like Seid, but he's not going to save Milwaukee's pitching situation in the next 3 years. I'm not ready to anoint Reid as the the pitching savior yet either, I liked the Arnett pick but he's been horrible since he signed, Heckathorn has struggled in his last 3 appearance in a row, and the jury is still out on Hall. Retaining Z was an excellent move as well, but in the end it didn't do much for Miwaukee's pitching situation, if the impact pitchers don't make it through the system, Melvin still has to find a way to replace that talent. Obviously I liked his scouting directors, I'm a huge fan of our minor league system, but retaining/hiring a solid scouting director doesn't absolve him from his responsibility to address and resolve the organization's weaknesses as a whole. If he doesn't fix it, who will? What has he done wise pitching wise to praise? I've given him plenty of props for his work on the waiver wire and with the position players, but he's done nothing for the top of the rotation. I'm not going to reach and claim Capellan was a top of the rotation talent, Atlanta just doesn't make those kind of mistakes. He's in a no win situation because he's literally done nothing but sign free agents and trade for rentals, and I've more than adequately explained my position on those ideas in the past. You misunderstood my point, we've been in this position as an organization before, back in 2003. A couple of very nice pitchers in AA, prospects all the way down through Helena, and none of those guys, not a single one, made an impact for Milwaukee. Melvin watched all those starters get released, get traded, get hurt, or become ineffective. I feel he's pretty much going to do the same thing now, sit on his hands hoping the prospects pan out and fill out the rotation for him. I'd much rather he aggressively pursue that kind of talent, it can always be moved later if the farm system actually comes through. This is exactly what TB did acquiring Jackson, Kazmir, and Garza while continuing to draft and develop pitching from within the organization. When TB had enough depth, they dealt Jackson and Kazmir opening up room in their rotation for their prospects. Simply put, I'd rather not just leave it to chance again hoping all of the young pitchers pan out. I think the evidence is pretty clear. I'd be more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt if he'd ever have traded for a high risk/high reward player since JDLR. Every move has been for the same high floor/low ceiling type of players, I don't make this stuff up, the inaction and type of talent is well documented . Look at his entire trade history as a GM, it's available in an excel spreadsheet, he doesn't trade for impact pitching very often, and the last 2 impact starting pitchers he traded for didn't pan out for him. Of course he's not going to get back much when he's trading players at their lowest possible value like Hardy this off season, Kolb when were jettisoning him, and so on. Because Detroit wanted Jackson instead? I would have happily traded for him as well. I have a pretty simple philosophy. I want to sign core positional talent, but I'll move any of the rest for pitching because they aren't part of my long term plan. All things being equal when it comes I'm taking stuff over pitchability, because I firmly believe that impact pitching is king in baseball. Which is why I was very interested in Niemann when TB couldn't trade him for their bat in 2008, his value was at his lowest. I don't have this obsession with trying to get a Ryan Braun at every position in the batting order, I'm obsessed with getting 3 or 4 Gallardo's for the rotation because I believe pitching can be the great equalizer for a small market franchise. So if we're talking Overbay, I would rather Melvin went with Marcum or McGowan alone instead of trading for 3 similar players. McGowan wouldn't have worked out at all, but at least he would have tried to acquire an impact talent in that deal. Please keep in mind how much I like Dave Bush's bulldog approach as a pitcher, but his talent is very average at best. Getting back to my original statement about core positional talent, I would have traded anyone other than Braun or Fielder without thinking twice for pitching (I would have traded Fielder in the right deal as well), I've been saying that all along, just like I think we ultimately traded multiple chances at the post season for a single shot in 2008 by acquiring a rental instead of a lasting solution. Many people think trading a positional player we don't have ready replacement for is dumb because by plugging one hole we create another, but I think ultimately the Brewers would have come out way ahead both in performance on the field and production value from FA. I think that since Milwaukee didn't have the impact talent and isn't able to afford it, you trade whatever it takes to acquire that talent and try to back fill positional holes with FA or prospects. Remember that I believe there is much better value signing average position players in FA vs signing average FA pitching in FA, so I'd rather plug position holes through FA than try to plug pitching holes that way. Melvin and I are simply standing on opposite sides of the Grand Canyon when it comes to pitching and more generally speaking team building, we just don't see eye to eye at all. No. I want to whomever is GM to work to develop the best rotation in the NL, letting the chips fall where they may as injuries will play a major role. I'm not into rental player deals, nor am I into trying to "average my way into the playoffs" because all we have to do is get there to have a chance. I don't think just trying to get to the playoffs is enough, and no I don't think Melvin trades for Sabathia if Yo doesn't get hurt in Chicago. It was a reactionary move.

Wow, Romero just misplayed a ball by 150 feet, falling for a double, Beloit now has runners on 2nd and 3rd with no out. edit. Ha... Bucci gets out of it. Strike Out, Foul Out, Strike Out.. Nice job Nick!

I fell asleep after work but I'm listening to tonight's recording of the T-Rats pre game show (seeing if their is an interview). The T-Rats will not see Hendriks or Osterbrock (no hit the T-Rats) anymore this season, both young men were promoted since the last series against Beloit.

Had he fired Z and then hired Seid you might be onto something. However all he did was hire the best remaining member of the scouting dept to become the scouting director after Z left with his posse. I agree that Z and Melvin appear to be very similar GMs and have said as much going back to the GM ranking thread. Even if Melvin turned the focus more towards pitching with a directive of some sort we don't know about, it's awfully late in the game for the draft to have any impact with the first wave of talent as 4 years with that talent have already passed us bye, 5 counting this season. Again I'm not referring to last year or the year before, this situation goes back as long as he's been the GM. He's certainly been very good at picking up pieces that contribute off of the scrap heap, McGehee is just the latest installment. However, I don't see how that's relevant to the point I've been hammering home on pitching for the last 2 + years now. We needed impact pitching talent to pair with Sheets and Yo, nothing has changed on that front since he's been the GM of the Brewers or even going back to his time as GM of the Rangers.. In fact the system, which has been woeful at producing pitching, actually produced the only impact pitcher who's been added to the rotation in his tenure, it was great getting to respectable, now I want to play for a WS. As the GM he's ultimately responsible for this mess. He's certainly had his opportunities to buy pitchers for reasonable value like when Hart was in demand for example, but he didn't. I'm not talking about a big name pitcher, I've never wanted to acquire those guys. I'm talking about prospect/unproven pitching which was readily available until the last couple of seasons, and no I don't mean David Price type prospect talent. I'm talking about guys like Niemann who didn't have a home because there wasn't room enough in the TB rotation while being stuck in AAA... a young pitcher with a great arm and good stuff on the rise. It's really not that difficult to uncover that type of talent, I can do it from browsing the MiLB leader boards and looking at career trends, actual scouts should be able to do a much better job. I think the organization taking another step forward or backward has nothing to do Prince leaving but has everything to do with the state of the rotation. We are rapidly approaching the day when we will have the 4th or 5th best rotation in the division, even on paper. I'll address the earlier prospect post later, but I'll say this now, true organizational flexibility comes from having multiple options for key positions, not from payroll flexibility, and pitching is power. I don't not believe it prudent to sit on your hands and hope that the pitching works out. I think the situation with Yo and Parra is about right... for every prospect that succeeds one is going to fail, at least initially with his first organization. So with that idea in mind I'm very much into impact depth and I'm not very big on sitting on my hands waiting for a perfect wave of pitching prospects to pan out.

What a truly excellent description of the point I've been trying to make for a long time now. The organization has plateaued because the state of the pitching hasn't taken a step forward. Sure Melvin threw a band aid on the situation with Sabathia in 2008, but it's still essentially the same concept in 2010 as we had with Sheets in 2006... 1 stud pitcher and then a bunch of guys. Yes I realize that certain pitchers have out performed their stuff, but pitchers like Davis, Capauno, and Wolf aren't special, and I believe it's foolish to build around mediocrity. People talk about the Twins model, I think that model stinks, they are always just good enough to be in the conversation but never good enough to truly win anything. I'd much rather be where Texas, Baltimore, and Tampa Bay are as an organization then where the Brewers are. Yes the Brewers have stunk at developing pitching, but until recently they didn't draft much of it, and they certainly haven't traded bats for arms like various people from the front office have mentioned on multiple occasions. Unless the idea was always to get to a certain level of competitiveness and make rental player moves with those bats, in which case I completely misunderstood the stated philosophy and think even less of Team Canada than I did a moment ago when the idea they possibly always intended on trading for rentals first occurred to me. Melvin did a fantastic job turning around a morbid franchise in a very shot time, but since then the team has only improved as the young players became more capable MLB players, Melvin hasn't done anything to permanently move the team forward. If he's unwilling to adapt or change his core philosophy then he's not the man for job anymore. Thank you Doug for getting the organization moving in the right direction, but if you're unwilling to address the rotation by working to acquire impact talent, then we're better off without you.

It's a conspiracy against the Link Report! If Mark will quit walking people he could be in Milwaukee by next year. There just aren't many starting pitchers that are successful with high BB rates, not to mention the high pitch counts that come with them. Doug Davis is an aberration more so than the norm when it comes to BBs. Mark is one of those players I have to continually temper my enthusiasm towards because he's definitely one of my favorites. I just really like the idea of drafting multi sport athletes that also happen to be projectable pitchers as I'm just not big on specialization in High School, I think that's the wrong message to send our youth. Which is a reason I'm high on Odorizzi besides the fact that he hit well enough to be drafted as a position player, he excelled at multiple sports in High School. edit. Lawrie had a tough day, 0-5 with 4 SOs

Already noted here, it's tough to beat Mass Hass to anything, he's the man.

The SL is a 10 team league AA also has a 12 team league, the Eastern League, and an 8 team league, the Texas League Team Batting AVG - .265 4th, Tennessee leads with .290 Runs - 132 6th, Tennessee leads with 172 2B - 58 tied 4th, Carolina leads with 60 HR - 11 tied 7th, West Tennessee leads with 40 BB - 104 tied 6th, Jacksonville leads with 134 SO - 228 7th, Tennessee has the fewest with 159. Jacksonville the most with 247 SB - 26 5th, Carolina leads with 35 OBP - .340 4th, Tennessee leads with .370 SLG - .376 5th, West Tennessee leads with .465 OPS - 716 4th, West Tenn and Jacksonville are tied at .819 Individual Batting Leaders AVG - Starlin Castro is the current leader but everyone knows the Cubs called him up. Osvaldo Martinez a Marlins prospect is the current leader at .375. Lee Haydel is the only Star in the top 20 (.297), Caleb Gindl just missed (.288). Jonanthan Lucroy was hitting .452 before his promotion, Lorenzo Cain was hitting .380 before the injury, he just missed qualifying. OBP - Mike Stanton the Marlin's #1 prospect according to BA is the leader at .477. There are no Stars in the top 20. Zelous Wheeler and Lee Haydel just missed at .370 and .368 respectively, Lucroy's was .500 in his 45 ABs, Lorenzo Cain is currently .450. SLG - Mike Stanton is the leader once again at .840, even for a small sample that's outrageous. Once again no Stars, Chris Errecart just missed (.439), Brett Lawrie was close as well (.430). Lorenzo Cain is currently .479 OPS - Mike Stanton not so surprisingly with a 1.317, dude needs a promotion. Zelous Wheeler came in 20th (.790), Caleb Gindl is currently sitting .781, Brett Lawrie only .768. Lucroy's was 1.024, Cain's is .929 BB - Mike Stanton once again leads having drawn 26 already this season. Taylor Green (14) is 18th, no other Stars in the top 20. Zelous Wheeler and Brett Lawrie (13) were obviously very close, Caleb Gindl (12) just a step behind the rest. SB - Tony Campana a Cubs prospect (boo) and Elian Herrera a Dodgers prospect both have 11. Lorenzo Cain (8) is still tied for 5th on this list as it's not qualified, Lee Haydel (7) is 10th, Brett Lawrie (6) is tied for 11th. With Cain out and Lucroy promoted this has become a pretty average offense. Team Pitching ERA - .3.77 tied 3rd, Jacksonville leads at 3.10 Runs - 139 5th, Jacksonville has only given up 108 HR - 22 7th, West Tenn has only given up 13 BB - 104 tied 2nd, Tennessee has only issued 93 free passes thus far SO - 213 tied 6th, Mississippi has 279 thus far WHIP - 1.38 4th, Jacksonville leads with a 1.28 Individual Pitching Leaders ERA - Charles Shriek a 24 year old White Sox Prospect own the top slot with 0.71. Amaury Rivas is 7th (2.10), Alex Periard was in the mid 20s (4.15). BB - Elih Villaneuva a 23 year old Marlins prospect has issued the fewest of the starting pitchers with 6. No Stars in the top 20, Mark Rogers (18) and Amaury Rivas (16) are among the worst. SO - Mike Minor the #4 ranked 22 year old Braves prospect is the leader with 46. Michael Bowman is 19th (25) after tonight's action, Amaury Rivas is the next best star pitcher (21), Donovan Hand has more SO (20) than IP (19.1) WHIP - Charles Shriek is once again your leader with 0.84. Amaury Rivas (1.19) is 19th, Alex Periard (1.38) is 24th, Michael Bowman (1.45) is 27th. Brandon Kintzler (0.32, Mike McClendon (0.56), and Donovan Hand (1.24) have been good but didn't qualify.

I'm rooting for Cappy as much as the next guy but there are way too many unanswered questions yet with him to start penciling him into the rotation. I wish Parra would just always pitch like he did the 8th. FB around 93, hitting the corners, breaking pitches low... he'd be a stud. After giving up the granny we probably won't see him for week.

Thank you for sending McCann, that was nice.

I have a hard time believing this team will score 935 runs on the season, which is the current pace. However, if the pitching can improve when the offense settles back down who knows?

just a reminder that while the data at minor league splits is usually pretty close, it's never exact. I remember the difference being something about game logs but I don't remember exactly what it was.

So we go all out making rental player deals patching the rotation every year until Fielder is gone? Then what? Furthermore I can't think of anyone who's been to a WS that's built their rotation entirely in house. The Rays are there now if they make it, but when they went in 2008 they had 3 pitchers in the rotation acquired via trade (Kazmir, Garza, and Jackson). I don't care if McGehee is the guy or not, it's not like he's irreplaceable from within the system... we have plenty of 3B candidates between AA and AAA in Gamel, Green, or Lawrie. The point I made that you guys are missing is that you never want to trade anyone who's performing at the MLB, it's the same arguments every single time. We made our prospect deals folks, we had 1 maybe 2 shots to acquire a meaningful rotation piece with prospects, I've been saying that since before Sabathia, but it didn't happen, all of the surplus prospects were moved for rentals. Who's left? Gamel and Green have had their value plummet, and no one but 20 or 30 posters here on bf.net and a writer at MiLB.com have ever liked Salome. Milwaukee will always be overspending to be average until we get a dominant rotation, it's that simple. I love following the minors, and I'm definitely down with building from within, but what if Rogers, Jeffress, Peralta, and Arnett don't make it? What happens if Yo gets hurt? We have enough depth that we could easily supply 4th and 5th starters, but whom do we slot with Yo? I completely agree that in Milwaukee's case the pitching should come from the system, but what if it doesn't,. just like it hasn't? And no you don't have to trade pitching to get pitching, but generally speaking that's what happens when CY candidate pitching gets moved, and I've never advocated trading for that kind of pitching. It's too expensive to acquire and too costly to retain. I'm looking for projectable pitching on the rise in AA or AAA, I'm not looking for Peavy, Sabathia, Holliday, Lee, Webb, whomever... People around here keep limiting themselves to those types of "name" pitchers. As an example, what if we had acquired Niemann from TB like I wanted? At the 2008 deadline they couldn't give him away for the hitter they so desperately wanted. I'm not saying that McGehee is the guy, I'm saying Melvin needs to make pitching a priority, and people around here need to be willing to give value to get value, we need to be willing to give up a piece that will hurt. If we continue to horde our valuable hitting like we have in the past, then this cycling of having to patch the rotation with FA pitching every year will continue.