TheCrew07

Booing their own players? Again how are Milwaukee fans any worse than most of the large market fan bases or Philly for example? The fans made Rolen a scapegoat for everything on those Philly teams he played for... If Braddock becomes a reliever I'll be supremely disappointed, but I guess as long as he has a successful career who am I to judge?

What do you hope to gain from a post like this Al? We're following 2 1st round picks at Helena, it's going to be a little like an in game thread when that happens because everyone's focus is on one game. If we are that irritating, just click on our names, then click on block, and you never have to see anyone post but Mass Hass again.

He gave up a single then got out of the inning. Wendt was speculating a blister, I'm not sure though, I hope something is in the game story about it.

I followed the call correctly, here's the game log from the Helena base running blunder in the 5th. Helena Bottom 5th * Defensive switch from third base to shortstop for David Narodowski. * Defensive Substitution: Raywilly Gomez replaces shortstop Antonio Sepulveda, batting 9th, playing third base. * Derrick McPhearson grounds out, second baseman David Nick to first baseman Paul Goldschmidt. * Joshua Prince walks. * With Kyle Dhanani batting, Joshua Prince steals (4) 2nd base. * Kyle Dhanani walks. * Pitcher Change: Keith Cantwell replaces Anthony Smith. * Scott Krieger reaches on a fielder's choice out, third baseman Raywilly Gomez to catcher Errol Hollinger. Joshua Prince to 3rd. Kyle Dhanani out at 3rd. * Chris Ellington strikes out swinging.

Salome with a HR, Heether with a 2B, Gillespie with a 3B, and Koshansky with a HR, Nasvhille up 3-0 in the 6th. Dillard has a nice game going thus far with 2 BBs and 4Ks. This game could get interesting... just saying.

A weird/nice play to end Bueno's 5th inning... A ground ball was hit in between 1st and 2nd that gets under the glove of Arias but Dhanani picks it behind him and throws to Bueno hustling to cover 1st to the end inning. edit. In the top of the 5th Prince walks and then steals 2nd on the first pitch, that's his 4th on the season already, he wasn't kidding about stealing bases in his interview with Battlekow. edit 2. Another very weird play in the 5th where Krieger hits a ground ball to the left side with runners on first and second. Prince overruns 3rd and I think from Mr. Wendt's description both Prince and Dhanani both end up at 3rd somehow with Dhanani being tagged out at 3rd and Krieger going all the way 2nd on the play. The end result was 2nd and 3rd with 2 out, I'll paste the game log when it's available because I'm not sure I followed it exactly Arnett is in to pitch the 6th. edit 3. Wow this game... Arnett walks a hitter who's name I missed, said batter tries to seal 2nd, Garfield has him gunned, but somehow Dhanani missed the tag. It would have been Garfield's 3 Caught Stealing of the game. edit 4. I didn't expect this either, Arnett walks a guy, hits a guy, then walks another to load the bases. The trainer is out to check on Arnett now? Pitching coach, manager, and trainer all at the mound.

Because fans in Milwaukee are worse than San Fran, or NY, or Boston? Why would his chances be worse in Milwaukee?

Dykstra bumped his head and has concussion like symptoms which is why he isn't playing thus far.

Prince on by another error? or 2B? edit. Scored a double, at least the H-Crew has a hit now.

Odorizzi is getting hit hard, Helena down 4 to 1 in the 3rd. edit. BK beat me to it.

The BB issue continues down the chain to Helena where Odorizzi walks 2 then gives up a single to give up a run in the 1st.

No offense to Louis, but I wouldn't mind Welch and Holliman being pushed out of the rotation in favor of Braddock and Anundsen. No Green again today...

There's two different things really being discussed here, and I've made points on both sides in the past. First, Sabermetrics have not changed the way baseball is played, they have changed the way we evaluate players and some strategy in the game, but the nuts and bolts of baseball remains the same as it always has been. Pitching is about location, hitting is about selectivity. Over 100 years of trial and error people have figured out what it takes to get other players out and how to hit for high average. The reason many players don't make good announcers is that many times they know just know something to be true, but don't know how to explain it. Call it the "zone" or whatever, they just somehow instinctively know what to do and have the talent to execute it. Nothing in sabermetrics is going to teach a player how to hit a ball harder/more consistently or control their pitches/location better. It's pretty obvious to me why these baseball players get their dander up when the "nerds at bf.net" (as we've been affectionately referred to in the past) start telling them what's right and wrong in baseball, statstical analysis really has nothing to do with what happens in a particular game. For example my least favorite overused stat is BABIP... it's treated like the "cause" in a cause and effect scenario, but it's truly an "effect". Over a smaller sample size it may indicate some luck, but no one is lucky or unlucky for an entire year, at some point the players deserve credit or blame... A hitter who has a BABIP over .360 for a season isn't lucky, he's talented and making great contact, thus the resulting high BABIP. Just like a pitcher who's BABIP is high is likely leaving pitches up in the zone and catching too much of plate... he should get smacked around because if MLB hitters aren't connecting on those pitches, they don't belong in MLB in the first place. The whole notion of luck to me is horrible analysis... "I don't know how to account for all of the variables so it must be luck"... The second point here is that players like to judge each other on some mix of talent and results. I'm fortunate enough to know people who've played both football and baseball professionally and nothing irritates them more than players with "million dollar tools and a 10 cent brain". It takes an abnormal amount of self confidence to make it as a professional athlete, often mistaken for arrogance, and in some cases they truly are arrogant. They don't have much use for analysis beyond what their eyes tell them, because when they were playing the game, they only had time to react to what they saw, there's not time for thoughtful reflection during a game, it just gets in the way. They were successful because 100s of little things that sabermetrics isn't able to quantify and statistitians dismiss as "noise" like gut feelings, hunches, and so on. Some players know what's going to happen before it does... how do you explain or account for that? I see their point, I think the sabermetric tools are much more meaningful to GMs than to the players, but I wish these players would take more time to understand and appreciate some of the very interesting work that's being done. While I believe many current and former players, and in this case Renyolds, are too dismissive of advanced statistical analysis, I think the statistical community is just as arrogant and dismissive in regards to the truisms of baseball. There's a general trend towards dismissing general baseball wisdom as "old school cliche"... and while some of it is, like the value of small ball, much of it isn't... For example people around here like to make of fun of Yost for his grit and determination speech... but that's exactly what it takes to succeed in a sport where you fail more than you succeed, he wasn't wrong. If you don't have the proper attitude you won't succeed regardless of your talent, and it's mind boggling to me how dismissive statisticians tend to be in regard to the mental aspect of sports. Taking it further to a pitcher location is everything, analysis of pitching should start and end with pitch location relative to the target, though I do like much of the pitch FX work that's being done... to a hitter seeing his pitch when he's looking for it is everything, if he gets the pitch he expects in a good location chances are he's going to hit it hard some place. It's easy to look at player who doesn't succeed and make a stastical arguement that he's just not very talented, like the case of Hall, when that couldn't be further from the truth. He's arguably the best athlete on the team who gets the least out of his ability... just because you aren't able to measure it statistically doesn't mean the little nuances in the game aren't the biggest factors in the outcome of a particular game, AB, or a player's career. The recent Bill James article linked on BCB last week was fascinating to me, I've always enjoyed reading his opinions on issues and he took shots at pitch counts and indirectly at PAP. 100 pitches is arbitrary... it's not based on anything scientific other than being a round number.. Nolan Ryan is trying to take on what's recently become conventional wisdom and push the pitchers in his organization out past 100 pitches. How do we know the true threshold isn't 110 pitches, or 130? What about as a pitcher matures, shouldn't his pitch counts go up? Is what's best for a developing arm the same as what's best for a mature arm? Shouldn't we be trying to maximize the value of the best pitchers on the team instead replacing them with inferior pitching talent from the bullpen unnecessarily? One of the things that stuck with me from the article was a quote from a GM about the culture of baseball... that we've created a culture in baseball where a pitcher thinks if he goes 6 scoreless in 100 pitches his night should be over, when that's not necessarily the case. I find the whole counter culture movement fascintating as people begin to realize that maybe their analysis has gone too far. In Brewer terms I think a 100 pitch limit is a very good idea for Yo this season given his recent history, but if Suppan could be effective out to 120-130 pitches, I wouldn't have a problem with him throwing that much.

I was excited all day because it was Wednesday, I was wondering this afternoon why I was looking forward to today and then it hit me, because Odorizzi and Arnett are pitching tonight. I love the almost full to full link report, so many names to follow!

5 walks? 3 in a row in the 2nd, 2 in a row in the 3rd? He either is having a horrible day or he's really getting squeezed... Brewer with another error (17).

I realize Rogers isn't "sexy" anymore... but seriously, if the dude will just quit walking guys he's a super prospect the next day, he's got that kind of talent. Saying Rogers and Jeffress were in the same boat wasn't a slight to either one, it was a compliment. There just aren't many pitchers with that kind of natural velocity floating around. The question becomes can they harness their stuff, and if I had to pick between the 2 players today, I'm not sure who I'd take. Both are RHP, both bring it in the upper 90s, I think Rogers is closer from a control standpoint but Jeffress doesn't have the injury issues... I'm not sure what to make of Anundsen, if he's throwing in the low 90s, he's very exciting... but from the reports we've gotten and reading between the lines on what scouts have had to say about him, it's pretty clear he's not impressive to watch. I have a hard time with him, I would like him to move out of the FSL so there's actually some worthwhile media coverage which would allow us to discuss his prospectdom a bit more intelligently. Pogo saw him pitch last season and he never got over 86 on the stalker... that doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy about him. Yes there are plenty of reasons why his velocity would have been down and instead of speculating I'd much rather just get some current information on the young man.

The Brewers sure do a good job identifying hitters, and some of the more polished hitters from the draft haven't even signed yet. What an unreal start for Garfield. Wow that Missoula 7th was a difficult read... Missoula Top 7th * Keon Broxton singles on a line drive to left fielder Peter Fatse. * Pitcher Change: Ivan Herrera-Rusova replaces Chad Robinson. * Raywilly Gomez walks. Keon Broxton to 2nd. * Jae Yun Kim strikes out swinging. * Ender Inciarte walks. Keon Broxton to 3rd. Raywilly Gomez to 2nd. * David Nick walks. Keon Broxton scores. Raywilly Gomez to 3rd. Ender Inciarte to 2nd. * David Narodowski walks. Raywilly Gomez scores. Ender Inciarte to 3rd. David Nick to 2nd. * Pitcher Change: Robert Currie replaces Ivan Herrera-Rusova. * Bobby Stone out on a sacrifice fly to right fielder Scott Krieger. Ender Inciarte scores. David Nick to 3rd. * Ramon Castillo singles on a line drive to right fielder Scott Krieger. David Nick scores. David Narodowski to 3rd. * Paul Goldschmidt grounds into a force out, third baseman Edgar Trejo to second baseman Kyle Dhanani. Ramon Castillo out at 2nd.

I'm not sure how the standings are as relevant as the actual state of the team. The SP was in disarray before Bush going on the DL and needs to climb out of it in a hurry, or the Brewers will find themselves heading the wrong direction and an easy 5+ games back of the WC by the all-star break. This is a not a team that will consistently win high scoring games, we'll win our share, but I'm not going to hang my hat on consistently winning those types of games, and it's certainly not going to work in the playoffs. Parra's regression and Bush's injury are absolutely crushing blows to a team that doesn't have SP depth like the Crew, which we all knew coming into the season. I believe people are vastly underrating the domino effect caused by Parra's ineffectiveness, the team was counting on him pitching like a #2, I was counting on him to be that good as well, instead he pitched worse than replacement level. Bush might be healthy by August, Parra might be pitching like a stud again by September, but there are simply too many unknowns on this team. Spinning the contract status of position players into the "window" is going down the wrong path in my opinion, the window is only truly open when there's sufficient SP on the team. Last year heading into the season we thought we had Sheets and Yo to headline an above average rotation that included an improving Parra and Bush, we ended up with Sheets, Sabathia, and Bush. This year our 2 best pitchers talent wise were Yo and Parra... and while Yo is very good, he didn't pitch at all last season and shouldn't be ridden into the ground regardless what's happening around him and Parra regressed, not to mention Looper's struggles most of the season and Bush's struggles of late. To me this is about picking your spots, not about trying to force something to happen that might not be there when we'll have all of the young positions players back again next year if we want them. Cameron and Kendell may be gone, but neither is irreplaceable, nor is Hardy irreplaceable, my personal feelings about him aside as he's my favorite Brewer.

Braddock would have to pitch out of the bullpen, he's never pitched more than 72 innings in a season, he's years away from the bigs as a starter. I would like to think that the days of teams burning out young starting pitching like they did in the 70s is past us, sans the Cubs.

Arnett is another 3 sport HS athlete, I love the Brewers targeting these guys as specialization in HS really gets under my skin. Sounds like he used to swing the stick a little as well, hopefully he won't be inept with a bat in his hands. edit. Battlekow with another excellent interview, well done sir.

My internet was down when I got home, boo TWC... then I napped. Glad I missed most of the Brewer game, plus the news about Bush... but what a good pitching day for the organization, and you couldn't ask for a better start in Helena. I was wondering how Fatse, Dhanani, and Dykstra were all going to be playing 2B in Helena getting enough ABs, guess I got my answer with Fatse in LF (see the draft forum articles talking about Fatse/Dhanani playing 2B for the H-Crew). I really like McPhearson as an athlete, though I guess that's obvious given he was a D1 WR, I'm thrilled he got off to fast start. I know I've commented on Trejo's athleticism and power when he actually makes contact a couple of times, and as one of my sleepers coming into the season I'm thrilled with 2 hits and a BB from him as well, I doubt he'll solve his pull happy ways over night, but R+ should be a good experience for him. Huntsville wins big but no Taylor Green, he must have a minor ailment, DHing and then not playing for 2 days. Hand is quietly putting up a very nice season his second time through AA. BC... ouch, tough loss. Much better peripherals from Rogers, HRs against Power Pitchers don't bother me at all at this level. Parra gives up a run in the 7th, the BBs are down today but so are the Ks, I'd like to see him gradually progress back to the point where he's King 8ish per 9 and walking less then 3 per 9. All the prospects but Heether with a hit, Iribarren with 2, but none for extra bases so far.

I'd be thrilled with a Guthrie type pitcher.

Jeffress with 4 BB through 5IP, with only 2Ks, and Brewer with another error (16). Wilson continues to hit well with 2 hits including a 3B, and Corporan is 2 for 2 in his A+ debut this season. I was thinking about Corp's excellent defensive reputation and I wonder if the move might be for playing time as well giving the young pitchers a chance to work with him. edit. Green out of the lineup for Huntsville today... boo! I wonder if he's just getting a day off or he's ailing a little bit?

Palminsano tore up rookie ball and slowly slid into oblivion... that's a horrible comparison, and you're ducking the point... we have 2 players that between will be a significant upgrade at a position of need. I wasn't talking about Braun today, I was talking about Braun in 2007. I have the exact same faith in Gamel as I did when Braun was called up, and I expect him to be an impact player down the road just like Braun. You're hung up on "these guys haven't done anything yet" which is my personal biggest pet peeve, it's the single most overused and meaningless argument against prospects out there. Will all prospects work out? Absolutely not, but you have to pick a side if you're a GM, fence riding gets you exactly where we are today, riding out Hardy and Fielder into FA with a very average rotation. Make no mistake, they aren't average because of the last 3 weeks, but because they simply have average talent. There's nothing wrong with that in the regular season, you'll still win plenty of ball games, I'm just not sold it works in playoff bsaeball when you're facing the best teams in the league game after game. Again I think if you're DM you have to wait and see how things shake out into July, why dump any prospects to bail water on a sinking ship? The pitchers will turn it around (if not then there's nothing to discuss) but this is an awfully tough stretch of games, thankfully most of it comes at home, and I personally think this stretch before the all-star break will make or break the season. If you come out of it okay you make a move, if not then you don't. Either way I don't see the value in trying to move Hardy or Fielder in season, and DM is on the the record that the return for position players is better in the off season. edit. Forgot to address the first point you made. It's a limited opportunity because the starting pitching is in shambles, and to be a serious threat they really need 2 pitchers instead of just 1. Parra failing thus far has hurt the team on a variety of different levels, they needed solid 1-2 punch in Yo and Parra, instead they have battling #1 and nothing of substance behind him. I was hoping if Parra struggled Bush would continue to improve, but he's horribly messed up at the moment and they are looking to push him back to give his arm some time. Right now the season truly hinges on Yo's ability to take the ball every 5th day and be effective late into games. If he runs out of gas and becomes injured or ineffective it's basically over, and if he gets injured it will be a collasal waste of talent. There's really not a good reason to Dusty Baker him just because "we're in the window", I'm very uncomfortable with his workload thus far. TB had every reason to push Price and in the end did what was best for the player, even against the player's own wishes, in effect protecting the player from himself. I would hope the Brewers woulld feel similarily about Yo...

Umm I've been arguing for a long term pitching solution for the better part of the last 3 years... this may be an "opportunity", but it's a very limited opportunity, and as I said I'm very uncomfortable with Yo's workload. If he becomes damaged goods I will never forgive Melvin or Macha for the way he's been handled this season. Do we not have 2 offensive orientated catchers in our system right now? Why would we have to acquire one? A .750 ish OPS out of the C position would be a huge upgrade, both Salome and Lucroy are capable of that, I don't care which plays down the road. A settled in Gamel is a significant upgrade at 3B, a healthy Weeks with this year's attitude is an upgrade over what he's done in the past, as well. I see no good reason to be pessimistic about the future. How is hoping Gamel works out any different than hoping Braun works out? The current situation doesn't suggest anything either way, so your knowledge and production is actually more a best guess on your part. Being in 1st place for an extended period of time didn't make this team a true 1st place team... there's a rather large gulf between the 2. A new pitcher may help, but how much is the real question. Pitching wise the Brewers haven't gotten any breaks this season other than Suppan stopping his slide, which was more than offset by the regressions of Bush, Looper, and Parra over the last month. There is still plenty of time left, and I'm not opposed to a Bedard deal for the right price, but I'm not into giving up talent of consequence trying to right a ship that may sink regardless. I'm not into wasting talent on a lost cause, which is still my biggest issue with the Linebrink move, and if Yo wears down this team is dead in the water regardless of another acquisition. I've been beating the pitching drum forever, one of the few posters around here to do so, most people were more concerned with Hart's/Hall's production that than state of the rotation. With or without another SP this is a very average rotation talent wise, if Bush and Looper figure it out we might be in good shape, but I don't see how there's definitive proof either way. This team came into the season with too many unknowns, and most of those questions still remain unanswered at this time.