TooLiveBrew

@Dunedin 4, Brevard County 3 Manatees fall late to Dunedin Brevard strikes out a season-high 15 times in 4-3 loss By Frank Longobardo / Brevard County Manatees DUNEDIN, Fla. - The Brevard County Manatees had their three-game winning streak snapped as they dropped the first game of a three-game series to the Dunedin Blue Jays, 4-3 on Tuesday night at Florida Auto Exchange Stadium. The 'Tees (28-23 second half, 57-62 overall) had a 2-1 lead heading into the bottom of the seventh, but the Jays (26-23, 68-48) proceeded to score three runs in the inning and held on for the victory. Dunedin scored the first run of the game in the first inning and it started with Kenny Wilson singling to center and then reaching second on an error by center fielder Reggie Keen. Two batters later, Wilson would score on a sacrifice fly off the bat of Kevin Pillar. Keen would atone for his error in the first as his two-out triple in the top of the third, plated Joey Paciorek and tied the game up. One batter later, Nick Shaw would give Brevard the lead as he drove in Keen with a RBI single. The one unearned run in the first inning was all that the Blue Jays would get off of Manatees starting pitcher Brandon Williamson (3-9, 5.74). Williamson yielded five hits in six innings of work, did not walk a batter and fanned five. After struggling most of the season, Williamson has pitched his best ball in August as he has a 0.75 ERA in 12 innings over two starts with ten strikeouts. Tommy Toledo relieved Williamson in the seventh and ran into trouble right away as he allowed a lead-off walk to Jack Murphy. Marcus Knecht then doubled to put runners on second and third and then Jon Berti would clear the bases and give Dunedin a 3-2 lead with a two-run triple. After striking out the next two batters, Toledo allowed a single to Jonathan Jones that brought Berti home and made it a 4-2 game in favor of the Jays. After allowing another single, Toledo was lifted and Seth Harvey came in to get the last out of the inning. Brevard County was able to string together a few singles in the top of the eighth off of Dustin Antolin and cut Dunedin's lead to 4-3 thanks to a RBI single from Shaw. With the tying run on second with one out, the Blue Jays brought in their closer Danny Barnes and he was able to retire the last two 'Tees of the inning and set Brevard down in order in the ninth to earn his 30th save of the season. The Manatees struck out a season-high 15 times on Tuesday against Dunedin, including ten times in five innings against Blue Jays starter Sean Nolin. In three starts against Brevard over 13.2 innings, Nolin has recorded 23 strikeouts against the 'Tees. Shaw was the only Manatee with a multi-hit night as he also drove in two runs. Shea Vucinich and John Dishon each had a double, to go along with Keen's triple for Brevard County's three extra-base hits on the night. Despite the loss to the Jays, first place Tampa also lost so the Manatees remain one game back of the Yankees. However, Dunedin and Lakeland are both nipping on Brevard's heels as both teams are two games back of Tampa. Brevard County will look to get back on track in the second game of their series with Dunedin on Wednesday night at 6:35 p.m. Drew Gagnon (0-2, 3.83) will get the start for the Manatees and he is still looking for his first win with Brevard. Brevard County Box Keen: 1-3, 3B, RBI, E (fielding) Shaw: 2-4, 2 RBI Jason Rogers: 1-4 Mike Walker: 0-4 Vucinich: 1-4, 2B Cody Hawn: 0-4 Paciorek: 0-4 Dishon: 1-4, 2B Franklin Romero Jr: 1-3 Williamson: 6 IP, 5 H, 1 R/0 ER, 0 BB, 5 K, HBP, 7:2 GO:AO Toledo: 0.2 IP, 4 H, 3 R/ER, 1 BB, 2 K Harvey: 1.1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K Brevard County PbP

Just saw this on Twitter thanks to Adam McCalvy: Link to story on MLBPAA's website. Apologies if this had already been posted.

Perhaps you are remembering this & still have this stance, but don't forget that moving Hart this offseason would mean his new team would also be able to make him a qualifying offer after 2013 & receive a comp. pick for losing him via FA... which would greatly enhance Hart's value imo. If he's dealt at the deadline, a partial season of Hart is all the acquiring team would get. However, I think the comp. pick will be part of why Melvin decides to keep Corey through 2013.

Most of what I see on BF from people advocating dealing Hart & Ramirez has very little to do with freeing up payroll, and almost everything to do with capitalizing on player value. The idea behind possibly trading these two is that the return the Brewers would receive would increase the overall talent in the organization, and set the Brewers up to contend for a significantly longer window than just 2013 or '13-'14. So, for a short answer to your question..., the reason you don't keep Hart is that he's only guaranteed to be a Brewer for one more season; the reason you don't keep Ramirez is to capitalize on how good he is now before you're overpaying him for his age-36 & 37 seasons. If you dare, here's my long-form version of the answer: I think the case for re-signing Hart is fairly interesting, because I think it's based very evenly in three areas of player value: 1) talent/production, 2) familiarity/proven/track record, 3) fan-love. It makes sense that those who are opposed to the idea of going with 'unproven' players would value Corey fairly highly in category 2. However, arguing that a player needs to be 'proven' as justification for re-signing Hart is particularly ironic, since it wasn't too long ago that many on BF were calling for his outright release and saying he'd never turn into a productive hitter... he was too inconsistent & 'unproven'. On category 1, I have little doubt Corey Hart will continue to hit for a low- to mid-.800s OPS for another four to six seasons or so. However, I believe that Gamel will also put up OPS totals consistently in that range, and he is under team salary control for four more seasons after 2012. So that's another wrinkle to the argument, that Gamel will give you very similar production to Hart and be significantly less expensive (even if Hart signs a team-friendly deal, you're probably talking at least $12M AAV). I think in terms of defense at 1B, these two are a toss-up, or at least close enough that I don't think it is worth worrying about. For #3, I have to admit that the fanboy in me wants to see Hart extended & play out his career as a Brewer. I've enjoyed watching him develop into the consistent middle-of-the-order bat he's become, and honestly his developmental path is a main reason why I got interested in following MiLB. On Ramirez, the concern is not necessarily about 2013, but that he's owed a lot of money for his age-36 season (2015)... and that since he's still a top-level MLB 3B who wouldn't just be a rental acquisition, he could bring back some very legit talent via trade. And again, that would be to generate a longer potential window of contention than just '13 or '13-'15. I understand why people are fearful of going with a plan that is based around players that haven't yet arrived at or succeeded in MLB. I just don't want to see the Brewers wait until after 2014 or 2015 to realize they should be re-tooling or re-loading, because at that point there might not be a lot of marketable talent left to trade. Basically, my fear is that the Brewers will focus on trying to turn a mediocre team into a WS contender in one offseason, and then return to having the cupboard bare in 2014 & beyond.

We have a talented lineup for years to come. I guess I don't count 1-2 more years as "years to come".

Last year was worth the push. I don't agree, but I'm guessing I'm very much in the minority. Just wanted to respond to this, since I think it's a very central part of the team-building disagreements.

Ok, so now I just realized that Rock was probably only remembering what he'd seen (as a Brewers player) of Augie v. Jackson. Which was basically one season (1983; just 2 PAs btw. the two in '84), and all of 8 PAs (.333/.500/.333/.833 line). So I guess what he meant to say was that, in one season, Augie held Jackson to two singles in 8 PAs.

I got curious when Rock mentioned how Augustine 'owned' Reggie Jackson. I looked it up on BB-Reference, genuinely interested to see how well Augustine had held down Mr. October. .302/.388/.744/1.132 in 49 PAs. Augustine actually did 'own' one HoFer, Carl Yastrzemski (.509 OPS in 28 PAs)

1. It's dang hard to find Aramis/Hart (and obviously Aramis is the key for me) type players. That fact is being woefully underestimated. No it's not. At least not by the vast majority, including those who want to deal one or both of them. And certainly not by the fans that want to keep both... you get it in seemingly every other response, if not more. I enjoyed reading through your response. The 2013 rotation is looking like it's in better shape than the bullpen, which is both an odd and good problem to have. For your note on making an attempt at a #1, I want no part of another rental/lease trade like the Greinke deal, but would be all about turning some of the prospect quantity in the minors into one quality young SP the Brewers would control for the next 4-6 seasons. An example would be jumping on a situation like earlier this season where Shelby Miller (STL) was struggling & was reportedly very available in trade rumors. If the plan is to spend on an arm like Edwin Jackson, and then add two overpriced RPs, you're probably looking at guaranteeing Jackson somewhere around $30M-$50M over three or four years, and then tack on another... what... $10M+ to pay for two 'established' bullpen arms for one season. Not to mention all of the guys you used as possible examples underscore the other downside to paying for FA RPs -- they're old/older & you can't predict very well what production you'll get going forward. I just loathe the idea that the Brewers will continue with the same approach, and keep throwing money at the previous season's problems every year. Granted, that's been Melvin's m.o. for the most part in his time as GM, but I wish the organization would start developing some tangible form of long-term plan. Otherwise, imo we will be talking about 'what might have been' once Braun is in his declining years. I don't care if the team goes with an approach that places less emphasis on winning in 2013 or not, as long as the long-term plan is there. Right now, I don't see one (from Melvin).

I think that was NievesNoNo's point

Yeah, good point. That actually makes me wonder if Haniger & Roache will get assigned to Brevard County (or higher...?). Too many good young OFs who need to be playing fulltime.

Ah, I should've clicked through & read the story rams posted. Thanks for noting that, Mass.

Appreciate the input, patrick & fondy.

Good to hear, I hope he can flash some of that power

Why is it probable that we won't contend? I'm not sure some Brewers fans have realistic expectations about what the pitching staff will do in 2013. The rotation might work out ok, but as of right now the entire bullpen is a question mark. That's 7 pitchers, and obviously this season has shown what effect a disastrous bullpen can have. Fix the bullpen What is your approach to do so?

NSFW language at the link (via reddit/Twitter) http://i.imgur.com/wE5Sk.jpg

Depending on the Brewers' SP injuries, you might be talking about seeing Jungmann up as soon as some time in 2013 (his age-23 season). It seems like he could well be up to Huntsville by now if not for BC's postseason chase.

Hah... Oh, I think he's worrying about it But seriously, yeah I agree with you. I just hope he can deliver the message beyond '12 to Axford that the Brewers want to start using him differently. The only thing that it would take, imo, to get relievers on board with using them as firemen and not closers would be to pay your fireman the same you would a 'proven closer'. I was really glad to hear Roenicke point out how arbitrary the save stat is, that's refreshing to hear... unfortunately it's taken a bullpen nuclear winter for him to get to discussing it, but still.

If he's actually proposing going back to a Fireman/Relief Ace approach, that's great. But my next questions are 1) does he just mean for the rest of this season, since the 'pen has sucked? ... and 2) did he really propose what the article suggests he did? Because in the two quotes you included here, I don't see him saying that as much as I see him saying, 'We are capable of losing the game in any inning the bullpen has to be used'/'We only have one reliable RP at the moment' EDIT: Sorry, thought that was a page-counted JS story. Just read through it & stopped being lazy: Then he's also quoted as saying, "I don't mind Henderson anywhere. I like Henderson," Roenicke said. "But it's not just the ninth."... so I still can't tell if he's actually thinking about adopting the Fireman approach as a key strategy beyond just this season, or if he's only referring to 2012. I will be pleasantly stunned if Roenicke ditches the conventional closer usage beyond just '12.

Brevard edges Tampa to sweep series Jungmann earns tenth win as 'Tees win 3-2 By Frank Longobardo / Brevard County Manatees http://www.milb.com/images/2012/08/12/gV2YtQ8Y.jpg Manatees starting pitcher Taylor Jungmann earned his tenth win of the season as he tied a career-high with eight strikeouts. Brevard County defeated the Tampa Yankees, 3-2 on Sunday night and earned a sweep of the first place Yanks. The 'Tees are now one game out of first. (Dennis Greenblatt/Hawk-Eye Sports Photography) VIERA, Fla. - The Brevard County Manatees mustered just two hits, but starting pitcher Taylor Jungmann struck out eight in 7.2 innings as the 'Tees defeated the Tampa Yankees, 3-2 on Sunday night at Space Coast Stadium. The win gave Brevard County a three-game sweep of the first place Yanks and the Manatees are now just one game out of first. Just like the first two games of the series, one big inning at the plate was all that the Manatees (28-22 second half, 57-61 overall) needed and that came in the second inning with two outs. With John Dishon on first and Franklin Romero Jr. at the dish, Dishon reached second on a wild pitch from Nik Turley and then stole third. Romero Jr. would eventually walk to put runners at the corners. Now with Reggie Keen at the plate, Turley tried to fake a pickoff throw to first but when he did that, Dishon took off from third and stole home for the first run of the game. Keen then took the 2-2 offering from Turley and deposited over the left field wall for his third homer of the season to give the 'Tees a 3-0 lead. Jungmann (10-6, 3.61) and Brevard would give up its only runs of the game in the top of the third as the Yanks (29-21, 59-58) recorded four singles in the inning that led to two runs. Jungmann allowed six hits overall and walked two as he became the first Brevard County pitcher since Evan Anundsen and Amaury Rivas in 2009 to win ten games. Alan Williams pitched the final 1.1 innings and earned his second save of the season as the 'Tees earned their first three-game sweep since they swept the Dunedin Blue Jays in late June. Following an off day on Monday, the Manatees will hit the road for a six-game road trip that will begin on Tuesday at 6:35 p.m. against the Blue Jays (25-23, 67-48). Brevard County Box Keen: 1-5, HR, 2 RBI Nick Shaw: 0-1, 2 BB, HBP Jason Rogers: 0-4 Mike Walker: 0-1, 3 BB Shea Vucinich: 1-3, BB Cody Hawn: 0-4 Parker Berberet: 0-2, 2 BB, PB Dishon: 0-4, 2/2 SB attempts Romero Jr: 0-3, BB Jungmann: 7.2 IP, 6 H, 2 R/ER, 2 BB, 8 K, HBP, 10:4 GO:AO Williams: 1.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K One more impressive element to Jungmann's strong outing -- the box score notes T: 2:30 (1:27 delay). I realize the delay likely came before the game started, but that kind of thing can definitely affect a pitcher & throw him off his game. For a potential example of that, Jungmann's Tampa counterpart Nik Turley, sporting a BB/9 rate of 3.3 this season (even after today's game), walked six batters in his 5 IP. Brevard County PbP The 3rd was Jungmann's only bad inning: Tampa Top of the 3rd -Kelvin Duran called out on strikes. -Jose Toussen singles on a ground ball to center fielder Reggie Keen. -Ramon Flores singles on a bunt ground ball to catcher Parker Berberet. Jose Toussen to 2nd. -Slade Heathcott singles on a line drive to center fielder Reggie Keen. Jose Toussen scores. Ramon Flores to 2nd. -Tyler Austin strikes out swinging. -Gary Sanchez singles on a fly ball to right fielder Franklin Romero Jr. Ramon Flores scores. Slade Heathcott to 3rd. -With Zach Wilson batting, Gary Sanchez steals (4) 2nd base. -Zach Wilson walks. -Jose Mojica flies out to center fielder Reggie Keen. The next two innings are just ones that I thought looked impressive from Jungmann. First, he pitched around a HBP and PB, both with two outs, to keep the 3-2 lead intact in the 5th: Tampa Top of the 5th -Ramon Flores flies out to right fielder Franklin Romero Jr. -Slade Heathcott grounds out, shortstop Nick Shaw to first baseman Cody Hawn. -Tyler Austin hit by pitch. -With Gary Sanchez batting, passed ball by Parker Berberet, Tyler Austin to 2nd. -Gary Sanchez strikes out swinging. Then in the 7th, he was able to shake off a leadoff double like it didn't even happen: Tampa Top of the 7th -Jose Toussen doubles (11) on a line drive to left fielder John Dishon. -Ramon Flores grounds out, pitcher Taylor Jungmann to first baseman Cody Hawn. -Slade Heathcott lines out to shortstop Nick Shaw. -Tyler Austin strikes out swinging. Jungmann ended his day in his typical style -- with a pair of groundouts: Tampa Top of the 8th -Gary Sanchez grounds out, shortstop Nick Shaw to first baseman Cody Hawn. -Zach Wilson grounds out, third baseman Mike Walker to first baseman Cody Hawn. -Pitching Change: Alan Williams replaces Taylor Jungmann. -Jose Mojica pops out to second baseman Shea Vucinich.

The way the Manatees stepped up in this series against Tampa, the team they're chasing, is really impressive. I hope they can carry this success forward.

@Tennessee 4, Huntsville 0 Huntsville Box The Stars were kept off the scoreboard for the second straight game today, managing only five hits (one XBH) and five BB. Yoannis Negrin -- making his first start in affiliated ball this season, after making 24 appearances for the Tabasco Olmecs of the Mexican League -- went 5 IP and only allowed the Stars to get one hit and one BB against him. Three Smokies RPs combined to shut the Stars out the rest of the way, but Huntsville missed legit scoring opportunites in the 6th, 7th, & 8th. Jimmy Nelson really struggled in this one: 4 IP, 5 H, 4 R/3 ER, 5 BB, 6 K, 3:2 GO:AO, 89 TP (45 strikes). However, Brian Garman, R.J. Seidel, and Darren Byrd combined to shut out the Smokies after that, although Byrd allowed six baserunners (3 H, 3 BB) and two SBs in his two IP. The Stars had chances to get back in this one, but weren't able to come up with the timely hits needed. Scooter Gennett (1-4, SB) singled in his final PA (8th inning) to extend his hitting streak to eight games. Hainley Statia (1-4, 2B), Andy Gonzalez (1-4), Hunter Morris (1-4), and Brock Kjeldgaard (1-4) were the other Stars with hits. Lee Haydel walked three times, while Josh Prince and Adam Weisenburger drew a walk apiece. Every Huntsville positional starter reached base at least once via either H or BB... I wonder how common that is when a team gets shut out. Domnit Bolivar and Kentrail Davis each went hitless in their single PH appearances. Apparently the Stars had some pretty big complaints with the HP umpire in this one. A rarely-seen automatic strike call (see rule 6.02) for a strikeout of Gonzalez in the top of the 7th might have led to things getting heated between the HP umpire & both pitching coach Chris Hook and Weisenburger in the bottom of the 7th: Tennessee Bottom of the 7th -Pitching Change: Darren Byrd replaces R. J. Seidel, batting 9th, replacing Kentrail Davis. -Logan Watkins walks. -Jae-Hoon Ha pops out to shortstop Hainley Statia. -Justin Bour pops out to catcher Adam Weisenburger in foul territory. -Junior Lake singles on a line drive to left fielder Lee Haydel. Logan Watkins to 2nd. -With Casey Weathers batting, Logan Watkins steals (25) 3rd base. -With Casey Weathers batting, Junior Lake steals (18) 2nd base. -Casey Weathers walks. -Huntsville Stars Pitching Coach Chris Hook ejected by HP umpire Brent Rice. -Huntsville Stars catcher Adam Weisenburger ejected by HP umpire Brent Rice. -Nelson Perez strikes out swinging. It actually looks like Weisenburger was ejected after the 7th had ended, because there's no note of a defensive replacement coming on for him until the start of the bottom of the 8th -- unless the game log is actually correct, and Weisenburger re-entered to play for his ejected self, and was ejected a second time at the beginning of the top of the 8th . The ordering of certain events in these MiLB game logs leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least. The way these are sometimes structured makes it impossible to tell which event(s) came before which. Hopefully the Stars put together a game story that can explain all the drama in the 7th. Huntsville Pbp Once Negrin was out of the game, the Stars did their best to scratch out some runs, but three consecutive rallies fell short: Huntsville Top of the 6th -Pitching Change: Zach Rosscup replaces Yoannis Negrin, batting 6th, replacing second baseman Matt Cerda. -Defensive Substitution: Dustin Harrington replaces pitcher Yoannis Negrin, batting 9th, playing second base. -Adam Weisenburger grounds out, second baseman Dustin Harrington to first baseman Justin Bour. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Domnit Bolivar replaces Brian Garman. -Domnit Bolivar pops out to third baseman Junior Lake. -Lee Haydel walks. -Hainley Statia doubles (7) on a ground ball to left fielder Jae-Hoon Ha. Lee Haydel to 3rd. -Scooter Gennett flies out to right fielder Nelson Perez. The top of the 7th got underway with one of the most uncommon calls you'll ever see (see link to MLB rule posted above): Huntsville Top of the 7th -Andy Gonzalez strikes out on an automatic strike. -Hunter Morris grounds out, shortstop Logan Watkins to first baseman Justin Bour. -Brock Kjeldgaard singles on a line drive to left fielder Jae-Hoon Ha. -With Josh Prince batting, wild pitch by Zach Rosscup, Brock Kjeldgaard to 2nd. -Josh Prince walks. -Adam Weisenburger walks. Brock Kjeldgaard to 3rd. Josh Prince to 2nd. -Pitching Change: Casey Weathers replaces Zach Rosscup, batting 6th. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Kentrail Davis replaces R. J. Seidel. -Kentrail Davis flies out to left fielder Jae-Hoon Ha. And even the third time wasn't the charm today for Huntsville: Huntsville Top of the 8th -Huntsville Stars catcher Adam Weisenburger ejected by HP umpire Brent Rice. -Lee Haydel walks. -Hainley Statia grounds into a double play, first baseman Justin Bour to shortstop Logan Watkins to first baseman Justin Bour. Lee Haydel out at 2nd. -Scooter Gennett singles on a ground ball to center fielder Matthew Szczur. -With Andy Gonzalez batting, Scooter Gennett steals (11) 2nd base. -Andy Gonzalez singles on a ground ball to shortstop Logan Watkins. Scooter Gennett to 3rd. -Pitching Change: Frank Batista replaces Casey Weathers, batting 6th. -Hunter Morris flies out to left fielder Jae-Hoon Ha. Huntsville Gameday

No cash, but if anyone wants to bring anything, feel free! We'll have brats/sausage, drink, & snacks (including some cheese curds, of course) for a group of 8-10 or so.

Imo it's pretty clearly that Melvin & Roenicke feel they owe something to K-Rod for his performance last season. RR has said as much, and Doug always seems to be patient with players to a fault (and to be fair, it can also be a strength of his as a GM).