TooLiveBrew

It's what's led to the past four seasons of 'almost' results at best, and what's led to the strategical crossroads the Brewers are currently at. You consider 2011 an "almost" result? Sure, they didn't make the World Series, but it's the best result I've seen in 30 years (given that I was one year old in 1982 and didn't literally "see" those games). The Chicken Littles have been telling us that the franchise was going to collapse if we didn't trade our veterans for about the entire 8 years that I've been visiting Brewerfan. Surprisingly, it hasn't happened yet. And we still have some decent prospects in the pipeline with a good opportunity to contend in 2013. I would listen on Hart this offseason (but not be especially motivated to deal) and would shop Ramirez at the deadline next year if the Brewers are out of it. Way too early to write this team off for next season. 2011 is the definition of "almost". Was it an amazing & memorable season? You bet. But I want the Brewers to build so that they don't have to 'take their shot' in one season or a season and a half here & there. I want them to build something that can sustain success, not just maybe make the postseason once every three or four years. Sounds like we were born in the same year. While I appreciate that 2011 was fun & amazing (I was at NLCS Game 6), the novelty of it isn't what is important to me. The planning behind it is what I'm interested in. We are also similar in that Hart & Ramirez would be the only two players we'd look to move in the offseason... but it sounds like I'd be more motivated to move Hart. Capt. Obvious caveat being that the return would have to be worthwhile for me to move either. The name-calling like "Chicken Littles" is the kind of thing that gets under my skin. It's just too broad & dismissive of many posts/posters who put a lot of thought into what they type out. There are extreme cases on both sides of the spectrum. I mean, according to some, the Brewers never should've traded Greinke because all they got back were lousy prospects.

Actually, Gamel's lack of throwing accuracy (largely related to footwork/mechanics) is why he didn't stick at 3B. I think I'm one of few, but I actually think that at this point Mat is a 1B-only player at this point, unless he's filling in in emergency-type situations. And fwiw I think he's an asset on defense at 1B. I think he certainly could go out & play 3B/corner OF, I just don't think the results would be pretty.

They haven't seemed to have a plan for any of their young players in recent years, so that's my guess... and fairly clearly yours give the 'alternatives' you list

Plus calling Olt up now means he could be eligible for the postseason roster, if nothing else as RH thunder off the bench.

I have no problem with difference of opinion, it's the attitude that if you want to trade Ramirez... well, you just will never be happy. There's been a pretty concerted effort imo from the folks who would like to see Ramirez dealt (IF he can bring back a worthwhile prospect or more) to lay out exactly why. And it seems to me that there's been a lot of responses throughout different threads that just dismiss the notion out of hand as just people who either 'will never be happy' or 'don't get it'. I actually don't think Ramirez will decline suddenly or massively, but I just believe that the Brewers could get a very legit prospect or two for him while continuing to build toward 2014 through the late 20-teens. I have little doubt that Melvin & Attanasio will continue to implement the 'worry about the future in the future' policy, but I obviously believe that's not the better way to maximize Ryan Braun's tenure. It's what's led to the past four seasons of 'almost' results at best, and what's led to the strategical crossroads the Brewers are currently at. And for the record I have no problem with you DHonks, I usually enjoy reading your posts. I can admit your last one in this thread was more 'straw that broke the camel's back' for me.

Pensacola 8, @Huntsville 5 Huntsville Box Well Pensacola wasn't having any of this 'no-hitter' foolishness. The game was actually pretty close most of the way (2-1 after the 2nd, 4-3 after the 6th), but a three-run 9th for the Blue Wahoos locked this one up. If not for the trio of tack-on runs, the Stars' two-run bottom of the 9th would've been good enough to tie the game. Billy Hamilton made up for lost time against Huntsville -- after picking up 'just' 3 SB in the five-game set in Pensacola two series earlier, he went 3/3 in tonight's game alone. Hamilton led off the game with a single, and proceeded to steal both 2B & 3B during the very next plate appearance. His three thefts tonight push his galaxy-leading total to a staggering 122 (!)... and oh yeah, there's still a full month left to play. To pass Vince Coleman's MiLB record of 145 ('83), Hamilton will have to come up with 23 SB in 29 games... his pace of 122 SB in 104 games suggests that isn't exactly a longshot. Dude is incredible on the basepaths. One possibility to consider in his pursuit of #146 in the minors, however, is that the playoff-contending Reds might want him up with the big club as a pinch runner in September once rosters expand. Huntsville starter Johnnie Lowe had a decent outing overall. A rare error from Hunter Morris (#4 on the year) to lead off the 2nd, followed by a 2B and three groundouts, wound up accounting for two unearned runs in the inning. A Billy Hamilton RBI single in the 4th and a solo HR from David Vidal in the 6th were the only earned runs Lowe allowed. He did a masterful job of inducing groundballs (even 3 of the 6 hits he allowed were grounders), and finished with a line of 6 IP, 6 H, 4 R/2ER, 2 BB, 7 K, 12:0 GO:AO. Brian Garman was the recipient of more bad luck relating to the defense in the 7th. With one out, Pensacola got a single on what's termed in the game log a "pop up to shortstop Jean Segura" -- that could definitely just be a bloop hit, I don't mean to infer a misplay from Segura. The very next hitter singled to RF, and it looks like Kentrail Davis let the ball scoot under his glove for an error (his first of the season): "Ryan LaMarre singles on a fly ball to right fielder Kentrail Davis. Ryan LaMarre to 2nd. Josh Fellhauer advances to 3rd, on a fielding error by right fielder Kentrail Davis." Davis had come up with a RBI 2B in the previous half-inning, and hustled to third when the throw came in to home plate. Garman got the next batter to pop out in the infield, but then allowed a single... it was ruled a hit, but noted in the game log as a single "on a ground ball to second baseman Scooter Gennett". One (unearned) run came in from third on the play, but the Stars caught the runner from second base in a rundown between third & home to escape any further damage. Just from reading the game log (first defender credited in the rundown description is Morris), maybe a long-ranging stop from Scooter with the batter-runner beating the throw to first, and then the rundown ensued from there. Just my guess. Garman got two groundouts and a popout for a nice recovery in the 1-2-3 8th. He finished with 2 IP, 3 H, 1 R/0 ER, 0 BB, 0 K. Unfortunately the drama wasn't over for the Stars, as Evan Anundsen allowed a BB, two 1B, and a 2B on the way to giving up 3 ER in the 9th. Just as last night's stressful no-hitter seemed to just be 'meant to be', tonight's game just wasn't for the Stars. Segura had another stellar game on offense -- 3-4, 2B, 2 SB (2/2), HBP -- and his AVG is up to .455. Catcher Adam Weisenburger went 3-3 with 2 RBI and a BB. Davis was 2-3 with a 2B and RBI, but was also picked off once and caught stealing in his only SB attempt. Mixed bag of a night for Kentrail, but in terms of signs of development, I'll take a 2-3 night anytime. Morris was 1-3 with one RBI & one BB, and stole his first base of the season in the 3rd. Hainley Statia went 2-5, while Josh Prince finished 1-5 with a 2B. Brock Kjeldgaard had an 0-4 night. Scooter Gennett also went 0-4, and was removed from the game prior to the 8th inning (replaced by Domnit Bolivar). No word yet on whether or not that was injury related. Huntsville PbP Hamilton wreaking havoc in the 1st, picking up #s 120 and 121: Pensacola Top of the 1st -Billy Hamilton singles on a ground ball to right fielder Kentrail Davis. -With Josh Fellhauer batting, Billy Hamilton steals (16) 2nd base. -With Josh Fellhauer batting, Billy Hamilton steals (17) 3rd base. -Josh Fellhauer strikes out swinging. -Ryan LaMarre called out on strikes. -Beau Mills strikes out swinging. The Stars got two runs back in the 6th, and pulled to within a run: Huntsville Bottom of the 6th -Pitching Change: Josh Ravin replaces Chad Rogers, batting 9th. -Hunter Morris flies out to left fielder Donald Lutz. -Hainley Statia singles on a line drive to left fielder Donald Lutz. -Kentrail Davis doubles (17) on a line drive to left fielder Donald Lutz. Hainley Statia scores. Kentrail Davis to 3rd on the throw. -Adam Weisenburger singles on a ground ball to right fielder Josh Fellhauer. Kentrail Davis scores. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter T. J. Mittelstaedt replaces Johnnie Lowe. -T. J. Mittelstaedt flies out to center fielder Ryan LaMarre. -Josh Prince lines out to center fielder Ryan LaMarre. Here's the wild top of the 7th... thankfully Pensacola got a little greedy on the basepaths & it cost them: Pensacola Top of the 7th -Pitching Change: Brian Garman replaces Johnnie Lowe, batting 9th, replacing T. Mittelstaedt. -Billy Hamilton pops out to first baseman Hunter Morris. -Josh Fellhauer singles on a pop up to shortstop Jean Segura. -Ryan LaMarre singles on a fly ball to right fielder Kentrail Davis. Ryan LaMarre to 2nd. Josh Fellhauer advances to 3rd, on a fielding error by right fielder Kentrail Davis. -Beau Mills pops out to second baseman Scooter Gennett in foul territory. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Bryson Smith replaces Donald Lutz. -Bryson Smith singles on a ground ball to second baseman Scooter Gennett. Josh Fellhauer scores. Ryan LaMarre out at home, first baseman Hunter Morris to third baseman Hainley Statia to catcher Adam Weisenburger to shortstop Jean Segura. And finally, the Stars were able to muster a bit of a comeback in the bottom of the 9th, sparked by Prince's leadoff 2B, but it fell short: Huntsville Bottom of the 9th -Josh Prince doubles (21) on a line drive to left fielder Bryson Smith. -Jean Segura hit by pitch. -Domnit Bolivar flies out to center fielder Ryan LaMarre. Josh Prince to 3rd. -With Brock Kjeldgaard batting, Jean Segura steals (3) 2nd base. -With Brock Kjeldgaard batting, wild pitch by Curtis Partch, Josh Prince scores. Jean Segura to 3rd. -Brock Kjeldgaard walks. -Pitching Change: Chris Manno replaces Curtis Partch, batting 8th. -Hunter Morris out on a sacrifice fly to right fielder Josh Fellhauer. Jean Segura scores. -Hainley Statia grounds out softly, pitcher Chris Manno to first baseman Beau Mills. Huntsville Gameday

Additionally, why do people want to move Ramirez? We've waited for what, 15 years to have an adequate 3b. Now we have an above average 3b and the only knock on him is his contract. I guess some people will never be happy. There are multiple threads with multiple detailed explanations as to why. Yet "some people" choose instead to be willfully ignorant of alternative team-building ideas & dismiss them as just being based in the fact that "some people" will complain about anything. I mean, why should people even bother to try to explain why they might think the Brewers would make a solid long-term move in trading Ramirez if the exact people who ask why just seem to plug their ears?

One season's stats on any player doesn't tell you anything more than what they've done. Especially when it comes to MiLB stats; scouting reports are far more useful. I don't think Green's some worldbeater, but I do think he can hit RHP at the big league level enough to be a useful utility IF.

It'll be interesting to see. He's pitched well lately, and combine that with the big salary & limited prospect return they'd likely get due to it, and my gut instinct says they wind up keeping him.

Here are all the top halves of tonight's innings in Huntsville: Chattanooga Top of the 1st -Rafael Ynoa strikes out on a foul tip. -Nick Buss lines out to left fielder Brock Kjeldgaard. -Blake Smith grounds out, shortstop Jean Segura to first baseman Hunter Morris. Chattanooga Top of the 2nd -J. T. Wise called out on strikes. -C. J. Retherford grounds out, third baseman Hainley Statia to first baseman Hunter Morris. -Luis Nunez walks. -Brahiam Maldonado grounds into a force out, third baseman Hainley Statia to second baseman Scooter Gennett. Luis Nunez out at 2nd. Chattanooga Top of the 3rd -Matt Wallach grounds out sharply, pitcher Jimmy Nelson to catcher Anderson De La Rosa to first baseman Hunter Morris. -Chris Reed walks. -Rafael Ynoa walks. Chris Reed to 2nd. -Nick Buss strikes out swinging. -Blake Smith grounds out softly, catcher Anderson De La Rosa to first baseman Hunter Morris. Chattanooga Top of the 4th -J. T. Wise grounds out, shortstop Jean Segura to first baseman Hunter Morris. -C. J. Retherford flies out to right fielder Kentrail Davis. -Luis Nunez walks. -Brahiam Maldonado strikes out swinging. Chattanooga Top of the 5th -Pitching Change: Dan Merklinger replaces Jimmy Nelson, batting 9th. -Matt Wallach walks. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Aaron Miller replaces Chris Reed. -Aaron Miller grounds out, second baseman Scooter Gennett to first baseman Hunter Morris. Matt Wallach to 2nd. -Rafael Ynoa strikes out swinging. -Chattanooga Lookouts second baseman Rafael Ynoa ejected by HP umpire Brent Rice. -Nick Buss walks. -Blake Smith walks. Matt Wallach to 3rd. Nick Buss to 2nd. -J. T. Wise walks. Matt Wallach scores. Nick Buss to 3rd. Blake Smith to 2nd. -Pitching Change: R. J. Seidel replaces Dan Merklinger, batting 9th. -C. J. Retherford lines out to shortstop Jean Segura. Chattanooga Top of the 6th -Luis Nunez flies out to center fielder Lee Haydel. -Brahiam Maldonado walks. -With Matt Wallach batting, wild pitch by R. J. Seidel, Brahiam Maldonado to 2nd. -Matt Wallach walks. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Anthony Jackson replaces Red Patterson. -Anthony Jackson lines out softly to shortstop Jean Segura. -Jake Lemmerman grounds into a force out, shortstop Jean Segura to second baseman Scooter Gennett. Matt Wallach out at 2nd. Chattanooga Top of the 7th -Defensive switch from center field to left field for Lee Haydel. -Defensive switch from left field to right field for Brock Kjeldgaard. -Pitching Change: Darren Byrd replaces R. J. Seidel, batting 7th, replacing right fielder Kentrail Davis. -Defensive Substitution: Josh Prince replaces pitcher R. Seidel, batting 9th, playing center field. -Nick Buss strikes out swinging. -Blake Smith grounds out, shortstop Jean Segura to first baseman Hunter Morris. -J. T. Wise walks. -C. J. Retherford flies out to right fielder Brock Kjeldgaard. Chattanooga Top of the 8th -Luis Nunez grounds out, third baseman Hainley Statia to first baseman Hunter Morris. -Brahiam Maldonado grounds out, third baseman Hainley Statia to first baseman Hunter Morris. -Matt Wallach grounds out sharply, first baseman Hunter Morris to pitcher Darren Byrd. Chattanooga Top of the 9th -Pitching Change: Brandon Kintzler replaces Darren Byrd, batting 7th. -Offensive Substitution: Pinch-hitter Gorman Erickson replaces Javier Solano. -Gorman Erickson lines out to right fielder Brock Kjeldgaard. -Jake Lemmerman strikes out swinging. -Nick Buss grounds out, second baseman Scooter Gennett to first baseman Hunter Morris.

@Huntsville 3, Chattanooga 1 Huntsville Box I don't know if anybody heard yet, but the Stars tossed a no-hitter tonight. I'll let the Stars' & Southern League's postgame tweets cover some of the details: Jimmy Nelson started the game, working four innings before being pulled due to his pitch count. As I noted in post #22 in today's Link Report, a Stars tweet prior to the game passed along that, "Nelson will be on a 'low pitch count' tonight. He's still rehabbing." Really excellent to see Jimmy come back so strongly; this was just his second start since June 30th. He finished with 4 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 4 BB, 4 K, 6:1 GO:AO, 64 TP. Dan Merklinger took over to start the 5th and struggled mightily with his command, walking four batters including a bases-loaded walk to force in the Lookout's lone run. R.J. Seidel took over with the bags still full of Lookouts, and retired the first batter he faced on a liner to shortstop Jean Segura. After retiring the first batter in the 6th, Seidel had command problems of his own... issuing a walk, then a WP to the next batter before walking him as well. Fortunately Seidel was able to gut it out, as he induced a soft liner to short and a groundball for a force out at second base to end the frame. Next up was Darren Byrd, who issued a two-out walk in the 7th for his only free pass issued. Byrd got a flyout to end the inning, and induced three groundball outs to work a perfect 8th. The last out of the inning is listed in the game log as "Matt Wallach grounds out sharply, first baseman Hunter Morris to pitcher Darren Byrd"... I wonder if that was your obligatory 'holy crap' play that every no-hitter seems to have. The fact that it was a sharply hit ball and Byrd wound up having to cover 1B at least suggests it could've been a diving stop by Morris. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there were multiple web gems in this one -- the Stars danced out of danger several times. Really looking forward to video highlights from this one! Stars closer Brandon Kintzler came on -- -- to work the 9th. Kintzler put down Chattanooga 1-2-3 with a lineout to RF, swinging strikeout, and 4-3 groundout to earn the save and secure the no-hitter! Nicely done Brandon, & see you in Milwaukee in September (my speculation). I won't ramble on from there, since there's sure to be numerous recaps of this one before much longer. I'll just say congratulations to the Stars and their pitchers tonight! Brock Kjeldgaard had the big hit for Huntsville: a two-out, three-run opposite-field homer in the 3rd off of Chattanooga starter Chris Reed (#5 LAD prospect, pre-2012 by MLB.com). The blast came after leadoff man Lee Haydel (single) and Segura (walk) reached consecutively. Reed didn't seem to have much trouble with command in this one, aside from walking Segura and then falling behind Kjeldgaard 2-0. Baseball can be a cruel game sometimes, just glad the gods smiled on the Stars in this one. Haydel finished 3-4 with three singles. Segura had his first hitless game since joining the organization, but drew two BBs and reached on an error in the 5th. The only other Huntsville player with a hit was Hainley Statia, who finished 1-4. Kentrail Davis went 0-2 with a BB, and was lifted from the game as part of a double-switch to start the top of the 7th. Both Morris and Scooter Gennett went 0-4; Anderson De La Rosa was 0-3, but I'm guessing that's not exactly what he's going to remember about catching this game Huntsville PbP Looks like "Downhill Thunder" might've taken one off the shin or foot in the 3rd, kudos to De La Rosa for being heads-up & securing the out: Chattanooga Top of the 3rd -Matt Wallach grounds out sharply, pitcher Jimmy Nelson to catcher Anderson De La Rosa to first baseman Hunter Morris. -Chris Reed walks. -Rafael Ynoa walks. Chris Reed to 2nd. -Nick Buss strikes out swinging. -Blake Smith grounds out softly, catcher Anderson De La Rosa to first baseman Hunter Morris. Kjeldgaard's longball came in the very next half-inning: Huntsville Bottom of the 3rd -Jimmy Nelson grounds out to first baseman J. T. Wise. -Lee Haydel singles on a soft line drive to center fielder Nick Buss. -Jean Segura walks. Lee Haydel to 2nd. -Scooter Gennett called out on strikes. -Brock Kjeldgaard homers (3) on a fly ball to right field. Lee Haydel scores. Jean Segura scores. -Hunter Morris strikes out swinging, catcher Matt Wallach to first baseman J. T. Wise. Huntsville Gameday

Maddux contributes in about 40 games, max. However, in those games, he makes a significantly larger contribution than any single position player. Enough that it's a legitimate question to ask if a SP may, in fact, contribute every bit as much as a position player (or perhaps even more). Also, what Baseball Prospectus found while doing research for Baseball Behind the Numbers was that preventing runs has the stronger correlation to winning, not scoring runs. Basic explanation being that even a terrible offense is capable of scoring 1-3 runs in any given game.

Nelson was pulled after the 4th due to pitch count (64). He didn't allow a hit, walked 4 & struck out 4 (3 swinging Ks).

Ariel Speedwagon....write that down. Awesome

Per the Stars' Twitter account: So maybe more like 50-60 pitches tonight. Just a guess on my part.

Hahaha... alright fair enough. I'll see myself out...

?

Nelson was removed in his last outing (July 28th) after 46 pitches, and poster X-TAI commented in that day's Link Report that it was simply a pitch count issue. So if the pitch count was 50 or so for his last outing, what's a reasonable guess to see him stretched out to tonight? 75?

Just noticed this while perusing MLBTR. Not exactly breaking news, but it had apparently gone overlooked by national pundits until recently. This sounds like a big loss for the Cardinals, which I always fully support. http://i.imgur.com/ZXIYh.jpg "Deal with Cards signee Andres Serrano Voided" Baseball America: Andres Serrano’s $750,000 Deal With Cardinals Terminated Over Age, Identity Issues

No, I definitely don't think it's pronounced like the mermaid. Like I said when I posted it, it was pretty weak.

I can see the angle you're coming from MNBrew. I don't think Lee is a 4-ish ERA type pitcher going forward, but I personally wouldn't gamble the $90M or so he's still guaranteed on it. Four of his last five starts have been very good, and I think he'll wind up getting dealt to a big-money contender like the Yankees.

To be fair, Ramirez's only bad monthly OPS this season was April. He finished with an .848 OPS in May. EDIT: Gomez (who I think for better or worse will definitely be back) If the Brewers still believe in Gomez's hitting or nearing his upside as a hitter, I think they should approach Gomez before the end of the season with something like a 4-year extension offer. It will drive me crazy if they decide to keep him in the mix, only to let him walk in FA after 2014. I suppose if he does continue to progress as a hitter, you could always flip him at the deadline in '14, but unless he turns in a good performance prior to the trade deadline, I doubt you'd get much in return.

Wow, all three of those made me laugh, rwa12. Nice! And ando... yes, I did think of The Little Mermaid basically right away. Thankfully rwa was here to pick up the slack. Another Segura idea... Jean Genie (kinda playing off "The Wizard")

We absolutely would have the prospects to trade for Lee, but I agree with you that it's not a good idea.

Wow! What a play. Every time I see really good video highlights like you've linked for Huntsville today, Mass Haas, it just makes me wish there were higher-quality broadcasts of MiLB games. These highlights are great.