RockCoCougars

Great news. Howard taking Anthony with him to the Sporting News is akin to Macha taking Suppan with him to Toledo (or where ever he lands). Addition by subtraction, and once again proof positive that it's not what you know but who you know.

This is mine, though it was the 1980 one. I believe Ueck's call was something like 'A drive to right center.....back goes Evans.....it's got a chance.....GONE.... a grand slam for Lezcano!'. I was at the Easter Sunday game, and though I had my transistor radio, I didn't hear the call because I'm sure it fell to the beer soaked concrete while I was going nuts.

People need to vote for this and throw all support possible toward it. Here is a link to an article on this: http://walworthcountytoda...y-killed-drunken-drivin/ I'm not easily swayed by these types of stories, but what a special little kid. Hopefully- if it hasn't been already- this is forwarded to Brewers charities and Prince. Everything I've heard about Prince is that he loves kids, and he might get involved in some way to honor one of his biggest fans.

They haven't done the Winter Caravan since Attanasio bought the team. IIRC, he put the kibosh on it because he wasn't comfortable with his players driving all over Wisconsin roads in the middle of winter. It's really disappointing, because I used to go every year, those were so much fun. I remember one year we got there early and we were waiting in the lobby while they were setting up the banquet hall. The place was empty, there was no one there yet. Ray King walked in, saw my Brewer jacket, and came up and said hi. You just don't get that with the On Deck event. That's what I thought- for sure a disappointment- but I guess it just reflects how the game and players have changed. Back in the 'old days' (which isn't really too far back) when probably at least half of the team actually (gasp) wintered in Wisconsin, it wasn't uncommon to see guys like Molitor, Hisle, Gorman, Caldwell and even Robin. in remote outposts such as LaCrosse. For a small fee, it was a meal, a fun evening of Brewer's baseball talk, and get this- the autographs were free. I believe that even the 'out of staters' were required to come back for a few of these. Back then, I think they used to take a bus and there were usually somewhere in the ballpark of 3-5 active players at each stop. I guess when you have a shiny new stadium, you don't need to do these things to draw attendance/fan interest. Too bad.

I've never been to this thing, but it doesn't sound like anything I would enjoy. Huge crowds and autograph seekers 'camping out', lines, etc. It makes me long for the good old Winter Caravan days when there were usually at least three active players at each stop around the state along with club officials/announcers, etc. Do they even do these anymore, or does Melvin or one of his assistants make these luncheon stops/press junkets around the state, maybe dragging someone like Jerry Augustine along?

I don't understand the hubbub about this guy. He's got a decent voice for voiceovers, but every market has at least one or two of these guys. It's not like he's some kind of savant or anything because he worked in the business before. I will say that he shouldn't have taken the quick bucks from Dr. Phil, because he's looking pretty bad to me. At best a deadbeat dad and a liar who claimed in 'the video' that he's been sober for two years. Consider my heart unwarmed.

I love the guy for what he did for the Brewers. However, it'd be tough not to admit that he's looked a little Taylor-esque running a team where he inherited probably the best pitcher in baseball and a stack of money. Some of his trades and free agent signings have been brutal.

Thanks for the link. I can't figure out why the Brewers decided to make the process tougher after 2005- both Kuenn and Money were very deserving. I would vote for Augie!!! Enough of this blaspheming my all-time favorite Brewer!!! I admit to being biased and irrational, but I will not be convinced otherwise. I may start my own Walk of Fame on my sidewalk just for him. I will admit to being somewhat biased and irrational against Augustine. My dad absolutely detested him, and that must have rubbed off on me. I will say that I've met Augie a few times, and he's a pretty nice guy. The Brewers probably aren't helping matters. Mantilla and Torre were bench players. That makes me wonder if there are names that are missing from the ballot that should be included. The aforementioned Joe Torre is the only one who comes to mind immediately This is a little off topic, buy why is Bobby Thompson on the Braves Wall of Honor. What did he do in a Braves uniform that his stats don't show? He broke his leg in the spring so Hank Aaron could get his chance. When Bikage77 says "consideration," I take that to mean ballot-worthy (not necessarily shrine-worthy). So yeah, I'd think those names are ballot-worthy. I wouldn't really have a problem with all those guys being 'enshrined'. As we are talking about one specific franchise (not to mention one with a big time losing record overall), I think all of those guys put up enough numbers to get in. About 5 very good years or 10 solid years should be good enough for a guy to get in. I think that the Packers Hall of Fame is a good example as to how to do things. What would it hurt to put 2 guys or so in per season for the foreseeable future. Even the 'main' hall of fame in Cooperstown has been watered down in recent years. If Bruce Sutter, Tony Perez and Jim Rice are hall of famers, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that Dan Plesac, George Scott and Ben Oglivie should be walk of famers in Milwaukee.

I concur with all the names above, and I'd add Bamberger, Buhl and possibly Burnitz, Slaton and Moore. I'd really like to know who's voting on this.... it seems almost like it's team employees or something- hence the high vote totals for Augustine, Castro and Schroeder. Anyone who actually watched Augustine pitch would not vote for him- the only reason that I can imagine him getting any votes is that he's currently around the team. At any rate, they need to open up the voting to fans and make it a little easier for guys to get in. You have baseball writers filling a ballot and voting for 10 guys to get into the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, and not one player qualifies for the Brewer walk of fame?

Who are the people voting on this? They are either very young, haven't been watching the Brewers for more than 10 years or so, or are completely clueless. You mean to tell me that Jerry Augustine, Bill Schroeder and Bill Castro received more votes combined than George Scott, Jeromy Burnitz and Jim Slaton (or Moose Hass)? Outside of a few fairly decent seasons- most notably his rookie year- Augie was borderline brutal, after 79 or so he was absolutely awful on a consistent basis. As a matter of fact, I'd be more willing to vote him into the Walk of Shame. Castro had a few decent years, but was nothing special either, as did/was Rock. George Scott should absolutely be in, as he was hands down the best Brewer of the 70's.

Thanks for the response. It was very well thought out and pretty convincing. At any rate without the steroid issue looming, I think that Bagwell has a very strong case for enshrinement down the road.... provided he's not linked to juicing in the next few years- I just don't think that he was 'screwed' as many seem to think, because I don't think that he should be a first ballot guy in any case. As for Dick Allen, from what I've read, his reputation of a clubhouse cancer has been discredited over the years by some of his managers. The guy was obviously very controversial and did some questionable things such as walking out on the White Sox mid season (still led the league in homers that year), writing 'messages' in the infield dirt with his spikes, etc. However, I've heard that he was actually a pretty decent clubhouse presence, especially with young players. I'd highly recommend his autobiography 'Crash', it's a pretty interesting read.

I don't think Martinez should sniff the Hall of Fame. He was a very good hitter, but not an elite hitter in my view. Plus because of the late start on his career, his overall 'milestone stats' are pretty pedestrian. The .312 career batting average is very nice, but I think the fact that the vast majority of his games were at DH work against him. Molitor is probably the closest comparison to Martinez in the Hall of Fame. At the end of his career he DH'd a lot, but over half his career games he was on the field defensively. Martinez is more like 25% non DH games- not to mention that Molly got 3,000 hits. Another comparison that I would find as fairly similar would be Harold Baines (the Brewer killer.....if this guy played the Brewers exclusively, he would have been one of the all time greats). At any rate, Baines was a DH for roughly the final 2/3 of his carreer, but still had a higher ratio of games played in the field. He also came closer to 3,000 hits and 400 homers. Though I think that he has a better argument for the hall then Martinez, I think he falls short as well.

Blah. Renteria just isn't that good, and he's getting old. I'm just not seeing how Renteria is that much (if at all) better than Betancourt at this point. If Betancourt or a Cruz/Counsell duo isn't getting the job done in June, I think that you have to go after someone who's a sure upgrade. For example, Furcal or Reyes might be available late summer for a fairly high cost. Frankly, once the Orioles fall 10 games back, I think the best option may be to bring J.J. back.

I think that Garza's a very good pitcher, but this smacks of the Cubs trading for Harden after the Brewers got C.C. Simply put, Greinke>Garza. Hopefully they got fleeced out of some good prospects here (though it seems they never do).

Point taken. That said, there is a similar lack of evidence that IRod juiced (outside of perhaps a mention from Canseco). Are we going to be having the same argument about him in 6 or 7 years? 'He was the best A.L. catcher ever', 'no proof', etc..... Does anyone believe that Rodriguez didn't juice after witnessing the transformation that his body made after testing became mandatory? Steroids or not, Bagwell had a nice peak, but his career stats do not scream 'All Time Great' to me. In my view, Dick Allen had a very similar career path, but I think his stats were slightly more impressive due to the era in which he played. Allen recieves no consideration whatsoever, so why should Bagwell be a shoo-in?

Now that Tony Perez and Bert Blyleven are in, who is going to take the torch of the 'Most Annoying Whiner Campaigning for the Hall"?

It sure seems that way, but I'm willing to at least watch the guy play for a semi-extended period of time before I will say he's terrible. I don't completely understand this sentiment. If you were managing a business, and you had a "candidate" that had been called completely inept by other employers, etc., wouldn't you raise an immediate red flag? Maybe that's a bad comparison, but quite frankly, I don't know what I can capture in watching Yuniesky that a professional scout and defensive metrics can't capture. By a 'semi-extended' period of time, I mean spring training. I think people are fooling themselves if they think that Betancourt is going to be cut. No matter what, I think that he will be going North with the team (even Suppan did last year), either as the starter, or in a reserve role after playing himself out of the starting job in Maryvale. Based on the history of this management regime, he will likely be on the team in some capacity until at least mid season- no matter what.

I'd be inclined to agree, but I think that Gomez (or at least his potential skill set) is better suited for this team at this point, not to mentioned they have already signed him for next season.

He was actually hitting fine until he got injured and could barely make it to 1B the rest of the year. Betancourt is much worse than Estrada was~. Despite his reputation as a lazy player, I'm willing to give Betancourt the benefit of the doubt here. Estrada was hands down the worst defensive catcher I can recall in Brewers history, he was also a clubhouse cancer with questionable work ethic and poor conditioning. Probably an average hitting catcher at best. There is no wonder that he burned through about 6 teams in 6 years, and was out of baseball altogether very shortly after his year in Milwaukee.

Everyone in MLB played with a bunch of steroid users. Joe Posnanski made the point today, that before Pujols, was Bagwell the best 1B ever in the NL? Musial was primarily an OF, and Banks a SS. And for comparisons sake: Player 1 .294 .387 .437 .824 .273 .368 .444 .812 .320 .388 .516 .904 .368 .451 .750 1.201 .290 .399 .496 .895 .315 .451 .570 1.021 ----------------------------- Player 2: .264 .329 .420 .748 .300 .366 .481 .847 .327 .399 .527 .926 .308 .361 .535 .896 .309 .408 .617 1.025 .323 .402 .674 1.076 So, who was the big steroid user here? Griffey was a 19 year old kid, barely a year out of Moeller H.S. with roughly a year of experience in mostly the low minors. Bagwell was a 23 year old rookie, with college ball and a full year of AA under his belt. I'd say that's a bad comparison. Yount put up pretty putrid stats as a 19 year old, and he really wasn't very good offensively until he was in his mid 20's or so. I think that would be a better comparison to Griffey since I'm almost 100% that Robin didn't juice. Throughout history most teenagers (outside of- to the best of my knowledge- perhaps Griffey, Al Kaline, and Mel Ott) have struggled. Even Ty Cobb hit .240 when he was 18.

Griffey aged like Hank Aaron, more specifically, he developed a beer gut over 15 or 20 years. Bagwell went from a somewhat doughy rookie to a bodybuilder in a span of about three years. Based on what I've heard about Griffey's training regimen, or lack thereof, I highly doubt that he would go through the effort of using steroids. Griffey was basically injured on and off from '95 on, while Bagwell was playing about 150 games a year, develops an issue with a big joint (shoulder) and is done at 38..... coincidentally the same year that the MLB implemented strict steroid testing. Combine that with the fact that he played with a bunch of steroid users, and I think where you have smoke, you have fire. At any rate, Griffey was a much better player than Bagwell anyway. Had Griffey used steroids, he might have hit 1,000 home runs.

It sure seems that way, but I'm willing to at least watch the guy play for a semi-extended period of time before I will say he's terrible. Believe me, if he is terrible, I'll jump right on the bandwagon to dump him. Frankly, I don't think that anyone could be worse than Escobar was last season, but at the same time, two wrongs don't make a right. ... meaning I believe that a team can win a lot of games without getting any offense from SS to speak of, that said, it would be tough to win a pennant with a sieve at SS. I want to see Betancourt in the field with my own eyes before I make a determination that he's trash. If that's the case, hopefully a Cruz/Counsell combo can at least provide adequate defense with perhaps a veteran added late in the summer.

So is Betancourt a young Neifi Perez or what? Just asking, because I haven't seen this type of hatred from the statisticians about a guy since Neifi. Not even Juan Pierre received this scathing.

I don't know or particularly care how WAR is calculated, but I have a tough time believing that Sizemore was ever a better player than Braun. First of all, even though Braun is adequate at best in left, the argument toward moving him to the outfield revolved around outfield defense not really mattering that much. Secondly, I don't remember Sizemore ever being included in a conversation of best defensive outfielders, he my have won a couple of Gold Gloves, but those are basically a sham. I'm working on the assumption that WAR overvalues center fielders based on their peers This would also explain why Cameron had such a high WAR while he was here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically you could put Braun in center field, his defense could be brutal, and his WAR would take a big jump regardless? If so, I don't think that WAR is a relevant stat to compare guys at different positions.

Though I don't think that he should get in anyway because he didn't hit any of the milestone (500 HR, 3,000 hits) numbers while playing in the juiced (balls and players) era of the mid to late 90's- I think that steroid use for Bagwell is a pretty safe assumption. Take a look at pictures of him during his rookie season and then about 3 years later....not even mentioning the fact that he was a teammate/friend of Ken Caminiti (unless you believe that it's a big coincidence that both of them all of a sudden develop a big time power stroke after the '93 off season) and the fact that his body abruptly broke down at the end of his career as is common with steroid users.