TwinsBrewersWorldSeries

I took the "dropping of the price by 1/3" to mean that he is looking for a $60M deal (as opposed to $90). I think the agents have realized that 5/90 was a pipe dream. I think he'd reduce his per year by a chunk (say down to 3), OR (with that being the key word), reduce the $$$/deal, but not both. His past four years are ERAs of 3.61, 3.63, 3.88, and 3.24. His WHIPs have been 1.25, 1.26, 1.26, and 1.25. His only disadvantage is his age (turns 36 during the 2009 season). He is the definition of consistency (3+ Era), and an outstanding WHIP. His numbers are basically a mirror image of Ben Sheets, and Lowe has the advantage of not having the injury history (Ben is five years younger). We'd have to pay more per year (for a three year deal), but given the fact that his innings load wasn't high until Age 29, and given how solid his numbers have been four years in a row, I think we'd get very good production out of Lowe in a three year deal. Is he worth $16-17m per year? In this economy? I'm not sure, but at 3/50 he's a STEAL compared tot he CC and Burnett contracts. I think most her e would be very supportive of offering Ben Sheets 3/50, though he'd be a bigger risk with his injury history. To me, as the economy continues to shrink budgets, and the teams bidding for Lowe's services, he'd be a steal at 3/50 and we should go get em.

According to Buster Olney, Lowe's original request of 5/90 is in his words "down by a third". Olney also mentions that if the Yankees aren't in on the bidding that the price may fall even further. I believe it was mentioned somewhere within another thread that Lowe should be offered 4/60, and i think it was quickly highlighted that Lowe wouldn't even consider that. However, given our hesitation to go more than 3 years, Lowe's apparent brush with reality, and the fact that we still need a pitcher, who would be on board for a 3/50 offer? EDIT- Oops- wrong forum. Mods please move to the trade/proposals forum. Thanks- TBWS Edit: Spelling of Derek

In virtually every offseason thread, the key assumption is that we are a "young team" and will continue to get better. At first glance, i would dispute this notion. Since players largely by year 7 of their career are either 1) too expensive for us to keep or 2) too mediocre for us to keep, I would define a "young" team as mostly pre-arby guys and in their first 1-2, maybe 3 years of their career. Looking at our starters (24) Prince Fielder- Year 4, this should be his prime (when we consider his time in Milwaukee) (26) Rickie Weeks- Year 4 ( put up or shut up year) (26) JJ Hardy- Year 5- based on the past two years he's in his prime (also when considering how long he'll be in Milwaukee) (28) Billy Hall (or whoever winds up at third) - Year 7 (26) Corey Hart- Year 4 (35) Mike Cameron- Year 999 (25) Ryan Braun- Year 3 (34)Jason Kendall- Year 9999 With the exception of maybe Braun, every member of our starting eight is in atleast their fourth year in the bigs (22) Yo Gallardo- Year 2-3 (26) Manny Parra- Year 2-3 (29) Dave Bush- Year 5 (33) Jeff Suppan- Year 99999 (27) Seth McClung- Year 5 Our top pitchers (Yo/Parra are entering their third seasons, second full seasons) and are arguably the only "young aspect" of this roster. The problem we face is that with Hardy, Weeks, and Fielder already in year 4 or 5, by the time Yo/Parra are legit 1/2 starts (maybe their year 4/5), we'll have lost one, two, or maybe even all three of our offensive trio. If we commit to our nucleus being Yo, Parra, JJ, and Braun, trade Escobar and Fielder for young pitching, and bring up Gamel/Nelson. Then i'll agree we're a young team. But based on our MLB roster at present, i think that isn't a valid argument

No....... not in blue Cab is a throw-in Cano, the Yankes have soured on Ian Kennedy is good Camerson has value (plus we eat $5m) to get Ian Kennedy We throw in Bill Hall because they for whatever reason want him.

Is there any reason we wouldn't want to give the Yankees Hall as well? I'd trade him for a bag of balls if we didn't have eat his bloated salary. How about Cam, Hall, and $5m for Cab, Ian Kennedy, and Cano

I think you overvalue KC's players Greinke is huge here, but there was a rumor of a Francoeur/Greinke swap, so this isn't completely out of line. I think Dejesus is somewhat of a "throw in", but yeah, i agree that something more would need to go to KC. Hart/Weeks for Francoeur/Johnson is probably a bit much and the Braves would probably need to throw in more as well.

Any way we can trade Fielder for Peavy (through a third team maybe)?

Maybe i'm an idiot, but this just occured to me: Hart and Weeks to Atlanta Francoeur and ?? to Kansas City Greinke, DeJesus, and Johnson to Milwaukee

Time to trade for Greinke AND Cain............... This pretty much means we're going into rebuilding for 2009. If we can somehow turn (Fielder, Hart, and Escobar) into Greinke & Cain, i'd be pumped Yo, Cain, Greinke, Parra, Bush/Soup. Sign Abreau, let Gamel play 1B.

Why not offer 5/130.... 25/25/25/25/30 With an opt-out after two years or 30/30/30/20/20 with an opt-out after 3 years. The whole problem is that we can't afford him at the end of the deal. For the first 2-3 years, we can afford 25-30 million/season

The point of this thread is not to discuss our offer to CC/ the implications of, but rather refocus a discussion on how the Brewers stack up against the other major athletic teams in Wisconsin. After lackluster seasons by the Packers and Badgers, who both (in my opinion) appear to be headed in the wrong direction after the departure of legends (Alvarez and Favre), one would think that this provides and opportunity to the Brewers to become the dominant sports team in the minds of Wisconsin sports fans. UW Basketball, MU Basketball, and UW Hockey are all huge to their niche markets (NCAA tourney for BB is huge, but in reality only captures the attention of the average fan for a week or two a year). Signing Sabathia would be perhaps the biggest risk every made in the history of American sports. As noted in other threads, a 6/130 (assuming deferred money) could cripple this franchise into mediocrity or worse. By signing Sabathia to that kind of contract, Mark A is basically gambling that he WILL win the world series in the next three years. A winning team will slowly drive up revenue and eventually result in a bump in the TV contract, but to repay himself for the risk/investmment in a CC contract, he basically needs the Brewers to win it all and Vault into the #1 spot in Wisconsin sports in direct competitiion with UW Football, and largely the Green Bay Packers. Can it be done? Doubtful. Has it ever been done in another city? I can't think of a specific example where a World Series Title (or a Major Sports Championship) has completed transformed a local/statewide fanbase. I can think of several cases where that maybe has happened with an NCAA football program, but that is a much smaller scale (and much smaller financial risk) than the one being talked about here. In order for the Brewers to become the #1 draw in Wisconsin, they basically need to secure a national following. How they can accomplish that when they would have trouble making inroads in-state, in northern Wisconsin is beyond me. But the only way you might get an even 5% chance at that scenario, would be a three-four year period of incredible play, with an extremely marketable superstar (locally and nationally), a National/World Championship, and competition from only mediocre (or worse) other sports franchises in the state.

SIGN SIGN SIGN! He's LH too isn't he? He'd be a perfect 5 hitter behind Prince, or if we're going with the R/L/R/L, put Abreu 3rd, Braun 4th, and Fielder 5th. His .371 OBP would be mighty nice ahead of our two big boppers. Signing Abreu and resigning Sheets (one year) would make me very optimistic heading into this year. I almost wouldn't care what we get for Hart, maybe somebody (even a platoon player) for 3B? Weeks Hardy Abreu Braun Fielder Cameron/3B/Kendall Sheets, Yo, Parra, Bush, Soup

I just saw the new trailer for the film before seeing 007. I was actually stunned that it was a preview for a Star Trek movie. I was a casual fan growing up of TNG and DS9, but haven't really been interested in any of the Trek movies of the past decade. My initial thought was "WOW". After reading a bit, it seems they are trying to "reboot" the franchise like they did for Batman and 007. Anyone else plan to see this movie in May? I heard Matt Damon was rumored for Kirk, but it looks like they took someone else (Chris Pine? - who is that)

Mods- Please feel free to delete/move this if you feel it is inappropriate- I am posting this here at BF.net, because of the large amount of posters that Brewerfan.net and Badgermaniac.com share between them. Brian & the BF staff do an absolutely incredible job of creating/maintaining this site, and I would suggest that grateful BF.net members consider making a donation to this Holiday fund in their honor. In recent years, Wisconsin sports fans have gotten together to adopt needy Dane County families through the First Unitarian Church in Madison. This got started on the old Badgermaniac.com board, when somebody wanted to take up a collection for BM to buy him something nice in gratitude for his board. He declined. Board members took up a collection for needy families instead, and it has grown every year. This is how it works. The Nice Unitarian Lady (or NUL) assigns us families. Each family is summarized on a single sheet. We learn the names, genders, ages, sizes, and wish lists of each member. We raise money. We take the money and use it to buy gifts. Each family gets a gift card for a holiday dinner. Every person gets a piece of Badger wear, with Steve & Barry's and Insignia giving us nice discounts. We go shopping at the mall. We go shopping at ShopKo, which is kind of hard to explain, especially to the poor cashier who gets stuck with us. Then we go to a bar and wrap it all. A BM poster throws it in his van and takes it to the Unitarians, and a lot of people who weren't going to have a good holiday all of a sudden do because of us. Which is cool. Current wish lists for the first 4 families we have committed to sponsoring are at the bottom of this thread. This does not happen without your help. It especially does not happen without your ... money. Last year, we raised about $7800. In the past, we have collected donations by mail. A BM poster (Petronius) cashes them, tracks the expenditures, and provide a full accounting to anyone who wants it. He would prefer not to post his True Identity online, so please contact him either through a PM (if you are also a BM member) or by e-mail at xav13@hotmail.com. All of this is done on faith. We ask people to make a specific pledge when they contact him because the organizers need to know how many families to tell the NUL to give us. So far, we have asked her to assign us 50 people. We budget about $100/person -- little kids are cheaper because they don't need very much, and dads are very cheap because they usually don't ask for anything at all. Teenage girls and families that need winter coats are more expensive. This year the schedule is as follows: Mall trip: December 6 at East Towne. Shopko trip: December 12, in the evening (we go to the Shopko by the airport because nobody else does) Wrapping: December 13 at Pooley's, at 12:30 (thanks CPooley4!) Delivery: December 14, during the morning service Times are hard this year, no question. I expect that donations will be down because the economy is lousy for all of us. Give what you can, whether it's money, time, or your questionable package wrapping skills. Remember though, that if times are hard for you, they're really, really hard for the people at the bottom of the economic scale. I think this year they need us more than they ever have. There's usually a lot of winter coats on the list. Imagine living in Wisconsin and not being able to buy a warm winter coat for your daughter. Do what you can, and thank you. The generosity of Wisconsinites amazes me. A link to this Holiday Fund Discussion can be found at: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.a...&f=2570&t=3449434. I would never use this site to promote something for personal gain, but feel that this would be a great opportunity for Brewer Fans and Wisconsin Sports Fans to band together to take a difference. We maybe could even expand to include Milwaukee families in future years. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more information, and I'll help direct you with contact information to the organizers. All funds handled through a Madison Law Firm. EDIT: Holiday Wish lists for our first families are posted below: I have now received most of the family information from the NUL. This is what we're in for: Family 90: (see if you can figure out the theme) Mom (age 39): Wants: winter clothes. Dad (37): Wants: winter clothes. Daughter (14): Wants: winter clothes, boom box Daughter (10): Wants: Bratz dolls, boom box Son (5): Wants Winter coat, sweater, wrestling toys, "remote detonation cars" Family 67: (these guys are repeats) Mom did not ask for anything. Son (16): PS2 Son (10: Gameboy or hand game Daughter (9): Baby doll or hand game Daughter (8): Leapfrog book or game Daughter (7): Leapfrog book doll Son (5): Truck; ABC game Daughter (1): Doll with pink dress Son (2): Truck or cars 1-2-3 Son (5 mos): Baby toys Family 20 Mom (48): Gift certificate Daughter (18): Snowboots, sweater, black Van's shoes Son (14): Sweater, CD/Radio Daughter (13): Alarm clock, sweater Son (7): Snowboots, winter coat, Yu-Gi-Oh cards Son (5): Toys, toys, games Daughter (4): Toys, Dora doll, stickers Son (1): Warm clothes, toys. Family 35: Mom (44): Mall gift card, black dishes Son (23): Tshirt, body wash, Axe cologne Daughter (21): Mall gift certificate Daughter (19): gold jewelry, perfume, bodywash, CDs Daughter (17): Gorman gift card, MP3 player, Burlington (?) Daughter (15): Chris Brown CD, body wash, Plies CD Daughter (14): Perfume, bodywash, giftcard Son (12): Axe bodywash, cologne, gift card Daughter (9): Pink snowpants, bodywash Son (7): Trucks, cars. Socks. Son (4): Trucks, cars This is a total of 33 people. We have one more family coming, which should bring us up to around 44. Most adopt-a-family volunteers are families or offices, and it's hard for her to find people to take the large families. That means we need to raise a minimum of $4900 to buy gifts and holiday dinner gift cards for everyone. If it becomes clear that that's just too much to do this year (because it's been a bad year), I can always tell her that we can't do the last family. See if you can find the hint in the last paragraph. It's well concealed, but you guys are very, very perceptive. Happy Thanksgiving.

Count me in for Hart/Escobar/Jeffress for Peavy/Giles Weeks/Durham Cameron Braun Fielder Hardy Giles Branyan/Hall (late season call up for Gamel) Kendall/Rivera Peavy, Yo, Parra, Bush, Soup

Why not go "all in" Escobar, Jeffress, & some other prospect for Peavy Fielder for Halliday Peavy, Halladay, Yo, Parra, Bush Weeks, Cameron, Braun, Gamel, Hardy, Hart, Branyan/Hall, Kendall, P

but the Yankees also have to replace alot of players. They need a 1B/DH, OF, and several pitchers. Their CF and 2B also were mediocre.

Davis was a FA signing, maybe a minor league FA signing IIRC

I would not be surprised to see us offer 5/120 with a $30 option for year 6 with a $10m buyout. Makes it 6/150. We'll probably be outbid, but hard to say we didn't try if that is the case.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3650262

Simple logic would indicate that $4.30 gas (at $140 a barrel) would eventually fall to $2.15 gas (at $70/barrel), but somehow I doubt the market will allow that. Gas prices fell to about $2.69 last September IIRC, and i'm hoping we fall to those levels for a few months this fall/winter. Per MilwaukeeGasPrices.com, prices have fallen to an average of $3.01 in Milwaukee (as low as $2.89 in some places). Anyone expect the prices to fall further (maybe to last fall's levels) or is this just a hiccup before we're back up at $4.30/$4.50 per gallon?

its tougher to draft and develop #1 pitchers than it is to develop hitters. Our farm system is very good at developing hitters Our farm system is terrible at developing pitching

hope for a fast recovery for Rickie (so we can trade him), but i'm not sorry to see him off the playoff roster. Any chance Rickie can blotch DPs for say the Cubs next year?

If there is ever a player that will be worth $25m/year to the Brewers, its CC Sabathia. Re-Sign him and usher in a new era in Milwaukee CC, Yo, Parra, Bush, Soup and we don't miss a beat

If we could somehow parlay Hart and Fielder into Cain AND Greinke, and then sign Giambi & Abreu, we've at worst kept our offense the same, but boosted the pitching. Good pitching is harder to find/develop that good hitting. I'd trade hitters Hart & Fielder for good pitching. Hardy, Yo, Braun, and Parra are "the core"