TwinsBrewersWorldSeries

Cubs lost today, so a SWEEP guarantees that we are tied for the lead or better to start our series on Monday. EDIT: Removed Dots

darn, this hurts........... i wanted Marte as well. Did the Yankees give up anything good?

Aside from the financial argument, why aren't we talking about trading Escobar instead? Hardy is a proven All-Star Calibur SS who has carried this team on our best 2 runs in 15 years Escobar is lighting up AA, but that might not translate into success at the major league level. If Escobar is so valuable to us based on his ability and cheap cost doesn't that make him even more valuable to another team? I realize the danger in trading Escobar is that we might not have an elite SS if Hardy doesn't resign with us, but i would try and sign him to a 4 or 5 year deal in the offseason and if he does i'd try and trade Escobar for an elite player. The gameplan should be to KEEP an elite SS, C, CF, Starting Pitching.... 1B, 2B, LF, and RF (as we've documented) are much more easy to replace.

I personally believe the fundamental question is "win now versus win later". Clearly we are having a great year. We'll probably make the playoffs and may or may not ride a hot streak all the way to the World Series. The consensus of the board seems to be that we can not financially afford to field the same team next year because of raises due many of our elite players. The argument further evolves to establish that we can afford to field the same team next year, but that the cost of fielding that team might mean that we have players (Sheets/Sabathia in particular) who are signed at a premium price past their "elite years or value". In basic terms, if we sign Sheets and Sabathia, we'll be great for 2009, probably 2010, and maybe 2011, but by 2012 we'll have $40 million tied up in players that might not be get producers. As a result, we'll lose other players and will need to "rebuild" again until we shed those contracts after 2015. If we don't sign Sheets and Sabathia, our starting pitching takes a big step backwards, but the future remains bright because we won't have financial commitments for six years and can probably resign Hart, Hardy, and keep Fielder through Arbitration. As the Suppan thread highlights, I believe that the Free Agent Pitching market is almost always a massive failure. Suppan is signed at market value, but tying up significant money in a 4th or 5th starter probably isn't a wise investment. Spending the money on a #1 pitcher however might be the ticket. Clearly pitching has been the focal point of the recent World Series Champs. There is always going to be a major risk, but i think paying market price for mediocrity is simply a bad investment. Igor noted in another thread that the "ideal combo" seems to be a mix of expensive/elite pitching and pre-FA young hitters. Everyone raves about Escobar, Gamel, Salmone, etc... so we should have natural replacements in 2-3 years for these players. I think pitching takes much longer to develop than hitting, and while the odds of having an "elite" pitcher pre-arby is very small. Pitchers normally take 2-3 years at a minimum to figure it out, and by the time they have 2-3 amazing years they are too expensive to sign. Batters (ala Braun) have 1-2 amazing years and since they are controlled for 4-5 more years they are eager to sign a "reasonable contract). Bottom line: I say we "go for it" in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011........ and rebuild (if we must) in 2012-14 I'd prefer that much more than "going for it" in 2008, and then falling back to mediocrity in 2009/10 before "maybe" being good again in 2011 and 2012. I realize "going for it" would require Mark A/his partners to probably take a loss for a few years, but they'll dramatically increase the value of their property. Think about it, would you take on "$10,000" in debt iannually in home equity loans for 2-3 years knowing that 5 years from now your $200,000 house would double in value? Short term it makes you nervous but in the long term it makes you mucho dollars. Clearly the "big 8" markets make money. With the small market teams, i think you can make money while you are getting good, but will probably "lose money" staying good. If you can win for 8-10 years consistently, you'll either be back to making money or your franchise has doubled in value and you can sell it. Go for it Mark! this is an amazing run and I want it to continue beyond 2008 EDIT: removed excessive dots

i think Jason has caught 29 of 72 would be base stealers (unsure on the exact numbers). That would certainly make him our best catcher (defensively) since the Henry Blanco days

i think Estrada was on the Braves for that game

Riding an eight game win streak, likely to play in front of seven more consecutive sellouts, and concluding with a three game series against the arch-rival Cubs that should determine who leads the division, what would be considered a "successful" homestand? Assuming we go 2-1 versus Houston, and the Scrubs go 2-1 versus Flordia this weekend, we'll be a game back heading into the Cubs series. If we go 3-0 and the Cubs go 2-1, we'll bring an 11 game winning streak into the series and would be tied going into the series. Given how well we are playing, i'll be disappointed with anything less than 5-2. However, if we go 6-1, we're assured of being tied or leading the division and I think the city would be buzzing with Brewers fever even in spite of the Packers training camp. EDIT: 4 games series against Cubs, not a 3 gamer

Overall, the team has been very balanced in July. Kendall and Branyan are the only two members of the offense who aren't clicking right now. We obviously are aware of Suppan's struggles, but I was surprised to see Sheets WHIP gradually rise. I hope he doesn't have ill effects from his All Star game start...... I'm also stunned by how low Hart and Kapler's OBP are, i would have expected a higher number given their relative success at the plate. 14 Wins 5 Losses Hardy .392/.442/.772/.1214 7 HR Braun .313/.370/.627/.997 4 HR Hart .284/.304/.493/.797 2 HR Fielder .290/..388/.536/.924 4 HR Kendall .206/.286/.270/.556 0 HR Weeks .274/.361/.468/.829 2 HR Cameron .255/.388/.527/.915 3 HR Hall .370/.408/761/.1.169 4 HR Branyan .167/.219/.267/.486 0 HR Kapler .290/.290/.484/.774 0 HR Counsell .286/.389/.286/.675 0 HR Sabathia 4-0 33 IP 0.85 WHIP 1.36 ERA 8 BB 31 K Sheets 1-1 16.2 IP 1.68 WHIP 3.24 ERA 6 BB 20 K Parra 1-0 21 IP 1.14 WHIP 2.57 ERA 6 BB 19K McClung 0-2 21.1 IP 1.42 WHIP 3.80 ERA 11 BB 23 K Bush 1-0 16.0 IP 0.45 WHIP 0.56 ERA 0 BB 20 K Suppan 1-0 15.0 IP 1.88 WHIP 8.40 ERA 6 BB 5 K Torres 1-1 9 IP 1.11 WHIP 3.00 ERA 2 BB 4 K

Um the Twins are 53-42.......... they are a game ahead actually............... I love the Brewers, but i will bet my house that the Twins finish with a better record. Twins 90-72 Central Division Champs Brewers 87-75 Wild Card EDIT: The Brewers have much more talent, but the Twins fundamentals are a thousand times better and they have a MUCH better manager and bullpen

We have to pay somebody though. I'm sick of the Brewers having "potential", and i want production. Think of how many prospects didn't pan out over the past decade. We have good/great playerse in Hart, Hardy, and Braun, and i think that needs to be "our core". I'd imagine Corey Hart shifts to CF once we decide to bring up one of our younger OF, and Gamel figures to replace the platoon at third (or OF if he can't play defense). I agree that signing Prince for mucho $$$$ isn't smart when we have other options at first. Pretty much, our odds of one of our 1B options panning out is very high since any bat will essentially pl ay first. That said, i think trading Hart/Hardy could create bigger holes if their replacements don't have a very high success ratio. In the end, i'd rather us lock up our core, get good cheap production from 1B, and trade for as many Arby or Pre-Arby starting pitchers as possibe. Would i trade Hart & Hardy for a pitcher like Lincecum... sure..... but i've give up Escobar & Gillespe far quicker for a top pitcher than i would Hart/Hardy. If we can sign Hart & Hardy to 4-5 year deals, the 6 of the top 62 this year and 5 of the top 37 next year should more than likely provide viable replacements when Hart/Hardy are 31-32 and want "elite money".

1) This team has different strengths versus last years team. I think our bullpen was a huge strength in the first half last year (Cordero, Turnbow, and Wise were lights out), whereas they crumbled in the 2nd Half. Our bullpen hasn't been better than average this year, but with the addition of CC, Suppan/McClung being pushed to the pen, and possibly another arm being acquired to replace Mota, i think our relief pitching should improve in the 2nd half, especially if Gagne picks it up. Our starting pitching was a HUGE weakness during our collapse in August, though this year we're heading to the break with a healthy Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and an experienced Manny Parra sporting a swagger. Bush is pitching much better, and we now have the luxury of choosing the hot hand between McClung, Suppan, and CV. 2) Our offense was largely dependent on Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun for most of the year. Despite Fielder having a dud of a season and Braun being in a mini-slump the past month, the Brewers have been using hot streaks from Hardy, Branyan, Hart, Kapler, Kendall, and even of late, Hall to keep going. If anything it shows us that we can still have an amazing offense even without an amazing season from Prince Fielder. 3) Ned Yost might be turning the corner. He's done a good job lately getting starters out before they implode. If he can learn to play the hot hand in the bullpen rather that his "7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, etc) he won't be finding ways for us to lose. As mentioned in another thread, he's done a nice job with the 3T0/Hall, and if he can spell Cameron/Weeks a bit, our offense should continue to put up atleast 4-5 runs on a consistent basis. 4) The team is doing a great job of sharing the success/spotlight this season. Hart/Braun making the AS game after Fielder/Hardy did last season further validates their play and should keep them hungry for success. I think the trading pieces are there to replace Sheets/CC in the offseason, but that will require trading Prince/some of our top prospects. As such, locking up Hardy/Hart have to be a huge priority, maybe as early as the AS Break as their replacements will be 4-5 years away should we trade the Gillespe and Escobars of the world for a Greinke/Lincecum/Cain type. With two solid seasons in a row for both Hart/Hardy, i think they've proven they are worth making a commitment to. 5) Mark A is committed to winning. I expect attendance and TV viewership, merchandise sales, and general fan interest to continue to snowball as the casual fans continue to wake up to the fact that our team has become quite good and our ownership is actually financially committed to being a winner. I think Mark A has proven that he is willing to carry a $90-$100m payroll to field a winner, and if we play our cards right (sign Hart/Hardy) trade for a replacement for Sheets and/or CC, or potentially replace Fielder with a cheaper Gamel to sign a market value Sheets,we can continue to sustain our rise to the top of the national league. Food for thought. Over the next five years, who has more marketing value? Sheets or Fielder? I think demeanor, attitude, injury history, futue injury potential, and overall value should be factors in analyzing this. GO CREW

Nicely done......... i agree that we are in great shape for the 2nd Half

yeah, this is nuts... What the heck happened! I think we probably got ripped off. If i knew we could have gotten Harden this cheap, i would have advocated trading something better for Harden/Street

Reflecting.. this probably was a mix-up, and i only got the story second hand... i wasn't at the bar when the discussion occured.......... i feel bad for bartenders, because i'm sure there are alot of unruly, cheap, and deceptive patrons, but i think bars could do a better job to limit the crowd size from where it is in order to preserve more order...

After reading the Cleveland boards a bit, it seems like they feel they got ripped off. Granted, they were a game from the World Series last year and they thought they were going back before struggling this season. If we were in 4th place, 5-10 games under, and had just traded Sheets for a (LaPorta+ 2 A players) would you be satisfied. I realize alot of that rides on who they 2 A players are, but for the sake of discussion lets assume they are Green and LuCroy

This thread has been viewed over 86,000 times already! Over/Under on reaching 100,000 before an announcement is made? 430 uSers now logged in. Mark A is a genius! If we get CC, national attention will push local enthusiasm for the brewers into overdrive. CC to the Brewers = Reggie to the Packers

Agreed........... if Cleveland won't take LaPorta/Green/Cain........... tell em to pound sand.........

If we win the World Series even Weeks, Hall, and Dillon will have incredible value since they have World Series experience and are winners http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif GMs are easily manipulated into giving up a haul for World Series heroes.........

yeah...........i only will do a tab at Paddys Pub on the eastside where i know the owners very well and all of the bartenders know me......... this ordeal only makes me hate water street even more

Our offer is 1,000 times better and it isn"t even close........ The dodgers farm sysyem is like he yankees... nothing but hype....... if Cleveland balks at our offer, offer the same package to kansas city for zach greinke

Anything by Metallica or Toby Keith quallify. Those two artists are amongst the worst slime in society http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Nirvana on the other hand is pure bliss.... Oh, and yeah, that "kissed a girl" song is typical of the garbage they call music nowadays

So my buddy and i were out on water street last night. We're getting rewady to leave and my buddy goes to close his tab. to our surprise the bartender had charged SIX bud lights and four coors lights to his tab. Mind you, both of these are incredibly inferior beers that neither of us would ever order, let alone the fact that my buddy hates beer. ( i really only drink Leines)... anyways, as it turns out the bartender was either letting some random people charge things to my buddys tab, or was trying to cheat him for $$$. My buddy questioned the charges, refused to pay, and asked the bartender how things could be smoothed out. The bartender demanded that he order two more drinks and give the bartender $10 in cash to smooth it over. My buddy obviously wasn't going to pay $30-$40 for TWO rum and cokes, so we left the bar after the bartender gave my buddy his credit card back and while he was busy making the new drinks. My buddy feels bad about not paying for the two drinks he did order and is going to stop by this week to give them CASH for those drinks. This morning he filed a police complaint and also a complaint with the better business bureau. Note- both of us only had TWO drinks the entire night so the recollection of this isn't in question. Has anyone else either been scammed by a bartender, or been the victim of an idiot bartender who will let random people charge things to your tab?

just say no to Colorado outfielders!

Good job Doug... if they don't take it by Sunday.......... start offering that package for Greinke, Cain, or Lincecum.

Hardy is a proven above average SS... remember the crap we trotted out there between Yount and Hardy? The close this gets, the more i don't like it.