JohnBriggs12

But why do you think their injuries will suddenly stop when signing with a new team? I want nothing to do with these career injury guys, a waste of money and time. Baker is less risky..and had TJS in early 2012. He looked good at the end of the year. I don't see him as that huge of a risk. Johnson on the other hand...has had issues throughout.

I'm with you on Baker. He'll be two years removed from TJS. Not so much with Johnson. Not sure what they'd be getting.

Aoki is still the most marketable "non-core" player they have. He's certainly a nice piece but they wouldn't be mentioning Braun moving to RF if they weren't open to dealing Aoki. Davis and even Gindl showed enough that they could be 1A and 1B options in LF. I'd even throw in Halton as a third option there.

A Juan Francisco/Sean Halton platoon (or going with the hotter of the two) at 1B would likely provide 30 HR and hit .230 and that wouldn't cost a good young pitcher. If healthy I'd take Hart over Trumbo any day.

I don't think we'll ever see a Molitor statue. Whatever you think of Bud's lowball offer to him, Molitor left on his own volition and not only that, he signed with the Blue Jays who the prior year were Brewer's main nemesis. Then he chose the home town Twins over a return to Milwaukee a few years later. Most of that of course is water under the bridge, but statues are such that they should be reserved for cornerstone franchise loyalists. Molitor wasn't one of those.

Baseball America is a commercial enterprise. What fan base has the biggest following? Hint. It's not the Brewers. Anyone can concoct a formula that produces a result they are looking for whether or not that formula has any validity or not.

"The contract for Fielder has all the hallmarks of being a pretty bad investment for Detroit...guys like Prince don't age well" This was never intended to be an investment. It was a very rich, very aged owner trying to insure himself a championship before he's gone. Illitch may not even be around to see the end of Prince's contract. It was about the here and now when he was signed. As for guys like Prince not aging well, there's really nobody that compares with his body type. His legs are like tree trunks. Thicker body guys that have lasted into their 40's include Giambi, Thome and Matt Stairs. But Prince's torso isn't really that out of proportion to his base. Both are large. Prince has been remarkably durable too. He's never been on the DL. Most guys break down physically and he's shown no signs of that. As for the "great Fielder being in the past", lets not forget that the 2010 Fielder was far from great, and he rebounded with vengeance the next season. The same could happen next year. 2013 was by all measures, a great year for pitching. That has something to do with it too.

Its been a given that Melvin would be shopping for a veteran lefty in the bullpen hasn't it? Lets hope whoever he signs performs better than the erratic Gonzalez. As for Sanchez, they must just figure that his value isn't all that high and that he can be replaced by someone else's minor league FA.

I already answered that above, he's above average. No Yuni B wasn't even average and that's ridiculous comparison to make. Since you apparently don't like the definition, here's the explanation as laid out by wikipedia. Certainly someone such as yourself would have been capable of finding that on your own. Yes you are correct, I obviously haven't put any time or thought into baseball and I just run around repeating what I read elsewhere... Then again, maybe I'm talking about building something special and you're talking about trying to win as many games as possible in any given year. 2 completely different concepts, yet you somehow think that I don't understand the razor thin margins between success and failure in baseball? Even when I constantly post about it from a pitching perspective? Seriously, this coversation is exactly why it's largely pointless to discuss these issues... It doesn't matter how many times it is written, or from how many different angles, people still tell me what I see or don't see and in both cases are completely off the mark nearly every time. I don't think I'm the one who needs to take a "wider view" when I'm looking at the state of the entire organization vs the rest of the division, league, and MLB. Say what you want, (and you will), but the Brewers were never in the race and I have a huge problem spending money and giving up draft picks on aging retreads to not accomplish anything. Says whom? Where is it written in stone? I say again that somehow the Rays whom have 1/3 of our payroll manage to contend every single year. This isn't about what the Brewers have or haven't done historically, why would I want to revisit that past for anything other than a "what not to do?". This is about moving the organization forward in completely different era, where payroll potential is completely unbalanced across MLB, and how to remain truly competitive on a yearly basis. None of that other fluff matters... it may matter to you on a personal level, but it has nothing to do with operating a baseball franchise in 2014. You're only doomed to repeat history if you haven't learned from it... which should tell you everything you need to know about DM and MA right there. As for your lesser talent analogies.... well the football comments are completely off the mark, because there's nothing similar between developing football players whom you can red shirt if they aren't ready, coach 6 out of the 7 days per week, give daily individual instruction on the field, weight room, and in film review. Baseball doesn't operate in that manner at all, it's still largely trial by fire. I firmly believe that strong character trumps talent, but what happens when players of similar character have dissimilar talent? Casey McGehee was never going to be a career 800+ OPS player, nor will the players I previously mentioned. Prospects can and will fail for many reasons, but so do established MLB players. Kyle Lohse is a fine pitcher, but in the post season who are you going to bet on the better line-ups in the league getting to first... someone like him or someone like Verlander? My end game isn't winning games in the regular season, it's about winning the World Series. You can win games with an average rotation but you aren't winning anything in the post season with average pitching. In truth this is actually very simple, the Brewers cannot afford to buy significant talent in FA, as such the organization must operate in a manner that regularly supplies impact talent to the MLB club through other means. As we've seen, there are only so many trades you can make for CY pitching before the cupboard is completely barren, so a better strategy would seem to be one that focuses on locking up key players early and focuses on cycling as much impact talent back onto itself as possible. 1st division players, impact talent, which ever phrase you choose, the Brewers have it in short supply. A system full of depth (role players) isn't a good system, it's not being underrated, every system has that kind of talent, the farm systems that stand are the ones who have potential talent to make a significant impact at MLB. You talked earlier about history... well historically what leads you to believe that Brewers can turn system of role players into a team that can win 90 games? Where's that magic formula been hiding all these years? The Brewers system has turned out offensively talented and defensively deficient players for years, had 2 players with hall of fame potential in the line-up together, and couldn't get it done. Now you want to replace those kind of players with players whom are 2 or 3 steps down and expect a resurgance in the win column? You can give away wins at 1 position if you pick them up another, but how is that going to happen? How is the pitching going to get better? What prospect at any position can we pencil in for a .900+ OPS? Finally none of that has anything to do with the rest of the division ascending talent wise while we regress? That's your wider view right there... 1982 is ancient history, I enjoyed that run, but I'm sick of hearing about it, I'm sick of people talking about it, and what happened in the 80s and even in the 90s has nothing to do with the realities of the modern game. Ryan Braun is an impact player. Carlos Gomez is too. So is Jonathon Lucroy. It's a little early to proclaim Segura as one but the signs point to him being one. Aramis Ramirez has been one and is still solid when healthy. How many impact players does Pittsburgh have? One for sure in McCutchen. Alvarez? A .770 OPS doesn't spell impact to me. Brewers have plenty of ascending talent. Lucroy, Gomez and Segura are all still ascending. Gennett looked like an ascending player to me as did Davis. Of course both could be a bit of a mirage, but what if they just scratched the surface? Peralta hits 97 mph with sink. He's not ascending? Really?? Thornburg? Nelson? Look, I'm not saying Brewers are sure fire contenders in 2014, but they are certainly no worse than dark horses with a legit shot at a wild card. There's been times to be down on this franchise, but this is not it.

Now Sanchez is just the type of guy a team will take a flyer on in the Rule 5 draft. He put up decent enough numbers at AAA to likely be at least serviceable at the major league level and he's a converted catcher, so there is some perceived upside.

They probably figured both the Yankees and Angels were eyeing Lincecum. They knew they'd have to pony up to keep him.

Originally I let this go but it's been sticking in my craw all day. Players like Sean Halton and Jason Rogers are nice quality depth, but are not the type of players who we would want anchoring down any particular position for 6-7 years. They have value, but they aren't 1st division starters, and that fact is the single biggest problem with the Brewers farm system. Who profiles to be above average as a pitcher or position player in the next few years? How many players can we realistically project to be 1st division (above average) type players? I posted this early in the T-Rats season but I might have been wrong about Haniger, I really liked him when I saw him play, he might be able to match the production of a Corey Hart for example... he might make a good everyday type player. I know he didn't set the world on fire at BC, but that doesn't really change my opinion of him. Beyond him look around... I'd make an argument for Hunter Morris but he didn't even get a sniff and a ton of posters on this site are overvaluing pitching prospects like Hellweg and Jungmann. People will make arguments for Taylor and Roache which is fine, but I'd like to see continued growth from those guys before I get too excited. I'm sorry but I just don't see it with the MLB team or the farm system... we have nothing to hang our hats on. Melvin and Mark A. will keep chasing that 81st win so the fans keep showing up to Miller Park, but from where I'm sitting we're extremely mediocre as an organization, and several key facets are well below average. If we aren't building towards anything we're losing ground, and we haven't been building since 2007, we've been maintaining and/or patching the MLB roster, and that's it. As such we arrived at this point: 2 incredibly disappointing seasons in a row and a bottom third farm system. The Cards are better today and project to be better in the future, I would expect the Pirates to continue to ascend, the Reds have some interesting pitching on the way, and finally the Cubs have the best collection of position prospects I can recall since I started following the minors in 2003. We're a 4th place team without the impact to project for the future, it shouldn't take any "expert" to tell us anything, all it should take is a realistic and somewhat unbiased look at the state of the organization and the division to see the truth. What exactly is a "1st division type player"? Yuni Betancourt was the everyday SS on a 96 win team. Does that make him a "1st division type player"? Jonothan Lucroy's been the starting catcher on teams that won 96 and teams that won 74. What exactly is he? Gomez? Segura? Braun? I think you need to realize there's a razor thin line between a 90 win team and a 70 win team. Key injuries, suspensions for your best player, ill timed pitching slumps, and having an All Star 2b not be able to produce to his talent level happens in this game. If you found the last two years "terribly disappointing", then I suggest you need to take a wider view. 2011 was a very special year. Those special years are usually followed by lesser years. 1982 was another magical year in Brewer history and everyone back then thought oh this team is great. Then 1983 and an utter collapse down the stretch happened. 84 was much worse thanks in part to injuries. It's the nature of the game. It ebbs and flows. What happened in 2013 has no bearing on 2014 any more than what happened in 2011 had on 2012. The Brewers have plenty of talented players on their roster now. Most are under 30 and under control for 3 or more seasons. As for minor leagues, ratings are opinions. Period. It doesn't give me any comfort to know that my team has a highly rated minor league system nor do I lose sleep if the same experts have the farm system rated low. Nobody really knows how good a player is until he does or doesn't produce in the major leagues. You bring up Sean Halton. Most "in the know" people didn't think he'd sniff a major league roster. He probably won't be anything more than a marginal utility guy, but the point is that some guys exceed their expectations and some fall woefully short. Another analogy is college football recruiting. If success on the field corresponded exactly to recruiting rankings, Wisconsin would be a perennial 2nd division Big Ten team. The correlation is a bit stronger in a sport like basketball with smaller rosters, but even there, some programs fail with highly rated recruits and others succeed with lesser rated recruits.

Green will get a chance to show he's healthy and productive at AAA. If he does, he becomes an option to be the guy to spell Ramirez at 3B. They might give Francisco one last shot at that job...then turn to Green if he fails.

This thread encompasses both AFL and Caribbean Winter league action. I am not a smart man. You are smart enough, but you've been so oversold by so-called experts on the lack of talent in the Brewer system that you actually thought it was plausible that they'd have a 31 year old journeyman minor leaguer playing in what is supposed to be a showcase league for actual prospects. Things never were that bad.

Fielder rebounded from a worse year in 2010 than he had in 2013. He's definitely overpaid by a lot, but he's certainly still capable of big seasons. We're not talking Rickie Weeks type numbers even in his worst years.

Tigers won't be able to move that contract. They paid him $60-70 million over what other teams were discussing at the time in large part because money is no object to the 80 something Illitch. Tigers would have to take nothing of any value back and still pick up $9 million per year of his deal to generate interest. Bottom line is if Fielder were in the market now, he'd fetch around $90 million over 6 years. He's still owed $168 over 7.

I'd like to welcome you all to the "I can't root for the Braves" club. I'm a charter member going back to it's founding in 1966. Since most of you here weren't alive at the time, you are excused for taking so much time to enter. The question that got asked often back in the spring of 1966 was "Who are you going to root for now?" Most answers except from some holdouts, were prefaced by "I can't root for the Braves now" so I'm rooting for...fill in the blank. The people that remembered pre Milwaukee Brave days tended to return to what their loyalties were in years prior. My dad and older brother easily assimilated back into White Sox loyalists. Other families had Cub fan roots and Cub games started showing up on television on Sundays. I was a complete free agent so I had no problem adopting the Kansas City A's. That's right, they hadn't moved to Oakland yet. Two things attracted me to the A's. They were traditionally bad, and therefore I figured I'd be unique, and a rumor was floated in the Sporting News that owner Charlie Finley, who lived in Chicago, was looking at Milwaukee as a landing spot for his team which wasn't getting great support in KC. Well the city fathers in Milwaukee were hardly in the mood for more out of town ownership, so they didn't exactly welcome feelers from the likes of Mr. Finley. Looking back, think if they had? Those A's teams turned into 3 time champs.

I like the idea of Javier Lopez at the lefty they bring in. Very tough on lefties still at 36 and I think a significant upgrade over Gonzalez who quite frankly was a minor bust this year.

It's always been the secondary market for me. Why would I want to buy games I don't want in September just so I can be assured of a few prime dates in the summer? I go to games based on my schedule availability and interest which I can't project months ahead, and don't wish to lock myself in.

I think Peralta has elevated himself to the level Odorizzi was at then with less risk. That Odorizzi was more highly regarded 3 years ago has no relevance.

Peralta, Nelson, Davis, Taylor and Magnifico might get them to return a call.

Tiger Woods fans moved on because his male fans at least can appreciate the temptations of being Tiger Woods and cut him some slack if not secretly envied him. It's harder to understand the appeal of taking banned substances and risking your career and reputation among your peers.

Exactly, a vet at a discount or one coming off an injury that's now ready to pitch that can add to rotation depth at little expense. Guys like that typically can be had on minor league deals with out clauses after 60 days in the minors assuming they don't make the club out of spring training. That would give the Brewers a veteran fall back in addition to the Nelsons, etc. if Thornburg struggles out of the gate. The key to next season will be the Gallardo we saw in the 2nd half, and solid healthy seasons from Estrada and Lohse, and a step forward from Peralta. If Thornburg continues where he left off, that's a huge bonus but they have some flexibility if he doesn't.

Everyone needs a little more perspective. 2013 was one season. You don't over react to one seasons results. Suddenly everyone is afraid of the Pirates because they got incredible pitching for one season? Ask the Giants and the Phillies and the Nats how long you can count on that. I'll take the Brewer lineup over the Bucs any day. Pitching is always a bit of a crap shoot. Gallardo, with no WBC next spring, might return to his better form. Lohse will have a full spring training, and might avoid a bad month like he had in May. Thornburg might have just figured out how to pitch. He's always had the stuff. Peralta might develop more consistency and be a big winner. Yeah those are "mights" but that's the nature of the game.

Japan is usually a step above AAA. However, Japan juiced the balls last season so trying to project is difficult. Wladimir Balentin hit 60 home runs and slugged .779 but that was 19 more HR than the 2nd place guy, and 28 more than the third. McGehee did compare favorably with Andruw Jones who hit .244/.393/.456. McGehee was 15th in the Pacific League in BA. Wonder if Balentin finds his way back to MLB off of that year?