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Assuming Sheets pitches tomorrow, as a result of being bumped today, does this essentially mean that Capuano will get another extra rehab appearence, or do you think Obermueller will be used out of the bullpen? Saturday: Sheets Sunday: Davis Monday - off - Tuesday: Santos Wednesday: Capuano / Obermueller (?) Thursday: Sheets [insert derogatory comment about lousy, cheap Pittsburgians who didn't add a retractable roof. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif ]

Get Kolb up...we need to get 3 outs in a hurry. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif (Yes, I'm being sarcastic...but I do want this game to count....even though Lyle screwed up his hit streak by grounding out. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif )

BFP = Batters Faced (by Pitcher)? 27 outs + 3 hits + 1 walk = 31

18! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eek.gif There's Milwaukee's All-Star this year (although Overbay, Pods, &/or Jenkins may sneak in as well). I daresay today's crowd is going home happy. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

I mean online balloting for the All-Star starting lineup. Link to MLB.com homepage (you can find the link from there). You get the chance to vote up to 25 times; Overbay, like most of the Brewers, got all 25 of my votes.

Too early? More like "What are you waiting for?!?" Lyle's already got my 25 votes. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/glasses.gif

Over the past 13 seasons, the league average for OBP is about .340 (I got that number from the lgAvg. statistic from Royce Clayton's page on Baseball-Reference.com....if someone else has a better long-term read on the league average, I'd gladly shift to it.) In 8 major-league seasons, Counsell's career OBP is .348. Yes, currently Craig sports a .321 OBP, but I don't expect him to stay at that rate any more than I expect him to hit around the Mendoza line over a full season. For some reason, Craig Counsell is an enigma in baseball terms: he's a player reputed to "doing the little things" and "playing with hustle," yet at the same time, his best skill is the ability to get on base. As the Brewers lineup is put together, Counsell is well suited to hitting second in the lineup; the surprising number of runs scored by this year's team to-date is a reflection of that. Until Hall can raise his OBP to a more respectable level, he isn't going to fit into any spot in the lineup as well as Counsell fits in the # 2 spot. An interesting aside, the Brewers are actually 2-6 thusfar in Bill Hall's starts. While I'm not going to fall into any sort of post-hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy (my into-to-Macroeconomics prof would be pleased to see me drop that term years later. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ), it caught me a bit off guard when I went through the game logs. It bears watching, but that's about it. (What can I say, I had to look?)

Just to point it out, at the current rate, Hall is on pace for over 250 ABs (The 'projected' line on his ESPN Profile). I have no problem with Hall earning an extra 50 PAs by showing an ability to go with the pitch and hit to the opposite field at times (which he is doing) or by drawing walks (which he isn't doing, although I'm admittedly surprised to see he's averaging just under 4 pitches per PA right now). Anywhere between 250 and 350 ABs isn't going to bother me, honestly. Personally, I believe that this year's Brewer team should have a goal of that 82nd win, for the psychological value (to the team....and to the casual fans) of a winning season if nothing else, and I believe that giving Counsell a majority of the starts is the best way to accomplish that. What does bother me is opening up nearly every day's game thread to read "Player X isn't starting, ol' Nedley is playing favorites again." (Greg, I know that's not you....getting that out of the way now. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ) Sometimes, it's hard to distinguish between the 15-16 Brewers of 2004 and the 15-28 Brewers of 2003 based on some of the rhetoric that gets thrown around on these boards, and that does bother me. I don't think that any of the Brewers management is perfect (IMO, the Brewers should actually have five outfielders, not four outfielders and an infielder who could in theory play in the outfield), but I also don't understand how Doug Melvin gets all the praise for having a long term plan, but the man he picked to implement that plan "has no idea what he's doing," except for the whole 'winning more games with lesser-paid talent' thing.

Greg- I thought, at first, that you were suggesting that you weren't one of the people who thought Hall was in the team's plans down the line, and that I was taking your words in this thread out of a larger context. Now that I have a better understanding of what you're saying, I apologize for my misunderstaning of the first post. Is your argument that Hall should start now to prove that he has a future as a non-starter? I never said Bill Hall would be the Brewers' starting shortstop. I said he could be useful in the future. He may be useful as a utility man who can play 2B, SS, and CF. There's an outside chance he may be a starting 2B, if Weeks moves to 3B or the outfield. Saying that a young player can be useful in the future has always, to the best of my knowledge, suggested an expectation that they would be used as a starter in the future. Bench players don't have that level of value. Moreover, by the time Keith Ginter's current contract runs its course (and we would have an opening at either 2b or 3b, depending on Weeks), Hall would be entering into his arbitration years, so he is never going to be an inexpensive replacement option at second given the current makeup of this Brewers team. I'm fully ready to admit that Hall has future value as a bench player and a pinch hitter (since you can't exactly call him a 'defensive replacement'), because that's as much value as he has right now. Am I misunderstanding you? (I actually hope that I am.) As far as the trade market goes, I have my doubts about the ability to spin Hall into gold by the end of July, which is what Scoop suggested. A team isn't going to give up anything more than a fringe prospect to acquire a bench player. People have made the comparison to Jose Hernandez when talking about Hall's ceiling, but they then fail to notice that Jose--in combination with a veteran reliever (Terry Mulholland)--netted the Cubs the awe-inspiring trio of Joey Nation, Micah Bowie, and .... Ruben Quevedo.... in the season prior to his signing with the Brewers. Then, at the trading deadline in 2002, the Brewers were unable to give him away for a prospect....despite Hernandez being an All-Star. In retrospect, allowing the Dodgers to rent Tyler Houston for the stretch run didn't exactly net the Brewers a massive return either, and he was hitting over .300 at the time. Moreover, trading Hall this year is to sacrifice most of the value that he does have, which is a number of years as a cheap, quality option off the bench. Even though I don't think he should be a starter, I'm certainly in favor of keeping him around while he's cheap. Given your comments about Hall's value, I don't think that you're a liar. I do, however, think you are severely stretching the notion of future value. Since I don't believe in giving the blanket, "I'm sorry if I offended anyone" line with full insincerity, I'm not going to apologize. I hope that will be enough for you, especially since I'm prone to try to see the best in people (even President Bush).

Greg- The posts in this thread are what brought on my response. Just as a reminder, here's what you had written in the thread on the subject: The best reason to get Hall some playing time is that he is a young player who has a chance to be useful for several years. I'm not even getting into the really important argument, which is "who cares if Craig Counsell is marginally more valuable than Bill Hall right now, because what really matters is that Bill Hall has a chance to be a player for the future." I'm not getting into that argument because I don't need it; Hall is a better player than Counsell right now. This is obvious. This is easy. You're one of the very people whose comments raised the argument which I was replying to, even if you didn't want to start a discussion about it. (And, for the record, you were also the one person who said in the thread that Bill Hall was better defensively, but I wasn't going to single anyone out before.) So, indignation noted, but apology not offered (yet).

Since when is it a rule the SS has to bat 2nd? When did I say that it was? That line was raised by Yost-bashers....people too short-sighted to remember that for most of last year, the Brewers shortstop hit 8th in the lineup. I don't have that much of a problem with the suggested Pods, Ginter, Spivey linuep, other than the admonition that at some point, Wes Helms is going to be a regular in the Brewers lineup again....most likely later this season when Spivey gets traded. To bench him outright, fully expecting to need a contribution from the guy later this season, just seems a bit short-sighted to me. I honestly have a problem with Keith and Wes splitting time at third 60/40, with the hotter hitter getting the extra start. Considering that Yost was moving toward that direction before Spivey got hurt (Ginter got 4 starts in the prior 10 games), I don't see much of a reason to complain.

# 2 hitter or not, I'd still rather see Counsell in the lineup, as he's the better fit for the role on the team. 1) Everyone who talks about the # 2 spot being just about "getting Pods over" seems to conveniently forget the 60+ percent of the time that Podsednik actually makes an out. The second hitter in the lineup is still more about OBP than OPS. 2) Moreover, a good deal of this team's success has come from not making outs! Why should the team take consciously decrease the main reason they've been (relatively) successful thus far? 3) No one in their right mind can say that Hall is the better player defensively; triple the errors in one-third the chances does not the better player make. And, before someone assumes that Counsell is Mark Loretta revisited, he gets to more balls than does Bill Hall (higher RF...unless you can demonstrate that significantly fewer balls have been hit to shortstop in the games that Hall has played). Considering the importance of defense up the middle, I know which one I'd rather have behind me as a pitcher. (In yesterday's thread, I made the Hall / Jose Valentin comparison....and I'm still interested to see someone disagree with it.) 4) The argument about Hall being the younger player, and being a part of the team's plans down the line is a falsehood, and virtually everyone who's said it knows that. The shortstop of the future for this team is J.J. Hardy. Had the Brewers not picked up Counsell in the Sexson trade, they were prepared to give Hardy the chance to "earn" the starting job in spring training. The second sacker of the future is Keith Ginter in the short term, and Rickie Weeks long term. Relative to the Brewers franchise, Hall is projected to be just what he is: a utility player. The Constant bashing of every decision Ned Yost makes is really starting to get to me....and I'll leave it at that.

It's funny how all of the Yost second-guessers will criticize nearly every move that goes wrong, but never give him credit for making a decision that doesn't backfire horribly. He gave Adrian Hernandez every chance to get his first major league win (he was 0-3 with the Yankees, if I saw the graphic correctly), up by 4 runs, and lifted him in before he'd be on the hook for the loss. In a closer game, maybe less wiggle room would've been called for, but I believe that Yost pulled Duquecito at just the right time. For the record, I also love hearing that Helms is a butcher in the field, yet should be replaced in the lineup with a player with as many errors in ~ 20 fewer chances. Is it just me, or is Bill Hall starting to remind anyone else of Jose Valentin more & more? (For the record, when JosE-6 was Hall's age, he committed 20 errors in 83 games played.) Then again, at least Jose knew how to draw walks.

You do realize that his defense has actually been worse so far this year, right? Hall's Fielding Stats Entering play tonight, Hall had 3 errors in just over 7 games (64.2 inn) at short. I was concerned when it looked like he'd put up an error every 5 games! For the record, Counsell has 1 error in nearly triple the time on the field (179 inn)....and he's getting to more balls (higher RF)! Don't get me wrong, Hall's earned the increased time in the lineup, as he's swinging a hot bat right now. I just think that sometimes people tend to see what they want to see with Hall, instead of looking at the total picture.

Santos is 27. Sure, he's no prospect, but it's not like we're starting Doug Jones or Jesse Orosco. Now that the game's official, the rain can pick up any minute now. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

10-4 11 combined runs have scored in the 7th inning thusfar! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eek.gif

After all the hype and build-up to today's game.... ...is it fair to say we "smoked 'em" ??? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Sorry I've forgotten and I'm sure we've discussed this many times before, but does Kinney have any minor league options left? If he did, Minnesota wouldn't have traded him to Milwaukee, IIRC.

Not to mention "Same old Hall = E-6" (I thought it would take some time for Hall to get his second error, but he's getting ahead of that 'Error every 4 games' pace. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif )

I was also at the game....I would've posted earlier, but I was hoping to catch footage of Pods and the triple (he almost got to the ball...it looked like it went off the tip of his glove,) since I had the worst possible angle on the play....right behind it! (My grandmother needs a walker, so I was able to get tickets for the outcropping in Rt. Center -- in front of the furniture set (used to be the hot tub)! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif I read where the TV guys thought the radar gun was overestimating Sheet's fastball; I'm hesitant to agree, since the gun in St. Louis showed the same thing for opening day. Sitting in the OF, I can also say that Grieve should have been able to get to that foul ball early in the game. I'd like for Grieve to do well, and I know it's early....but a .786 OPS and below-average defense isn't going to hold down a starting spot. Enough negativity though....I'd rather focus on Sheets being outstanding today.

I actually agree with Shelmark to some extent. Were it not for one bad inning, we'd be on the verge of sweeping the Cardinals right now; assuming we win today, we'll have as many wins against them in 2004 as we did in 2003. Why give them any sort of moral victory? LaRussa is going to call for the occasional HBP; always has, always will. I rather like leaving St. Louis this afternoon, with the Cardinals wondering what just happened, rather than thinking about retaliation the next time we face them. Doesn't mean that the next time we face St. Louis, Pujols won't be getting a fastball to the ribs....just means that they can't take a single positive from this series, and their bullpen is in dire need of rest going into Arizona. Maybe they should've gone to McKay earlier; he's the only Cards pitcher to record back-to-back scoreless innings all day!

If you look at the Cardinals Bullpen, they might actually be running short of pitching right now! They have 7 guys in the bullpen, 5 of them worked yesterday. The sixth is Simontacci, who's already been knocked out of the game today. The seventh is Isringhausen, who you wouldn't think LaRussa would use for more than the 9th inning. We just might see Cody McKay, who's warming up in the bullpen right now, according to Powell. I just hope they can keep up this level of plate discipline all year! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

Is it just me, or have the Cardinals Corner OFs been terrible in the field this whole series? Both of Jenkins' triples came off of misplayed diving attempts; either of them could have been held to singles if the fielders just kept the ball in front of them. I vaguely recall Cedeno misplaying another ball in left, I think in game 2. And So Taguchi's misplay of Moeller's hit last inning just lead to two more runs. To be fair, Podsednik overran a ball & had it hit him in the heel of the glove, then bounce out, and Grieve misplayed one ball. Still, I would expect better out of the Cardinals.

Something that I thought of while reading one of the prospect summaries for this year's draft: will the Brewers look to draft groundball pitchers? I'll begin by saying that there are admittedly a number of factors that could affect groundball / flyball ratios in amateaur competition (aluminum bats, lesser talent = lesser contact, etc.) that would have to be accounted for. With that said, Doug Melvin has made it known that he feels groundball pitchers will be most successful in Miller Park. Wouldn't it make sense that, with that in mind, for Melvin to focus on pitchers who induce ground balls (or at the least, whose pitching style suggests will induce ground balls)? I don't know to what respect college & high school players have GB/FB ratios tracked, but I would be interested to see how last year's draft class stacks up in terms of groundball-to-flyball pitchers, particularly early in the draft. And, just in case anyone's still wondering, the guy I'm thinking about is Vanderbilt Southpaw Jeremy Sowers, a pitcher whose profile (what he throws and how he likes to pitch) draws comparisons to Tom Glavine (who has a career GB/FB ratio of nearly 3:2). This isn't to suggest that Sowers will be the next Glavine (I wouldn't want to put that tag on any draft pick), so much as a liklihood that Sowers would be a groundball pitcher who will probably be available when the Brewers pick. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on the Rice troika relative to groundball v. flyball, I'd like to hear that as well.

DHonks- The magic number right now would be 160; if the Brewers won 160 more games, they would clinch the division, so it cannot be any higher than that. Of course, that number will go down when other teams in the division lose games & when the Brewers win. (When each team in the division has lost one game, the maximum possible wins needed to clinch is 161, moving the magic number down one.) Someone feel free to keep a counter going, but I daresay that might be getting ahead of things....a bit. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif