OldSchoolSnapper

This seems to be the Brewers every year until about June. I just condition myself every year not to worry until July 4th or so. But eventually there's gotta be a year they don't figure it out.

It literally does mean something. It means exactly what I said. That their first round pick has not contributed on the field in any meaningful way through the first 2 years of the cheapest contract he will ever sign. That is significant for what's intended to be contending team that claims it's in "win now" mode, and I'm sorry buddy, but no matter how many times you repeat it means nothing or zero or zilch, it doesn't make you correct or the authority on what meaningful is. And by the way, moving him around to a position he isn't good at is part of the development process, it was bad coaching, and a waste of his time. It's great that the Packers love versitile OL, but it's ok sometimes to just let a guy play at the position he's, you know, actually used to playing. Just like their Jenkins to C brilliance, it didn't work. That's part of developing your players. And for the record, the rankings I cited were never based on rushing or passing totals, they were composite advanced metrics on pass and rush blocking. I don't know how else to get this through your head, but it was an example used to illustrate a very simple concept: historically, the Packers have done a lot more with less investment on their OL. They have a long established history of having a good OL without a lot of assets invested in it. I can give you a lot of examples of that but you'd call it subjective. Right now, they have expensive assets tied up in a group that isn't very good at all. I find this runaround funny because it started with you claiming I was subjective when only one of us has used ANY actual data and that wasn't you. You're the one giving lectures on the definition of meaningful, which is as subjective as it gets.

They had no first round pick and 52nd overall was their first selection. I don't think anything they did was going to be "impressive," at least not in the immediate aftermath.

The right side of the their line and the center are average enough or better. Not so sure Banks is a starter quality player even though the Packers paid him to be one. He might be, and it's a testament to how bad line play has become. As of right now, his signing was a bad one. I would probably agree that Morgan won't be worse than Walker, mostly because Walker was atrocious last season and it's a little disturbing to me that it wasn't obvious to them from day one that Morgan should have been in there. Is Morgan a bust? Idk. He's a huge question mark though at an extremely important position and that they did nothing to solidify it makes me think he's coming along just fine. He can have a bright future and be a bad pick as of this moment. There's no ROI through 2 years on a first round pick, at a position they are weak. It's not like Rodgers sitting behind Favre for 3 years.

Really like the Jackson pick. Elite speed and just a nice strong build. Good sleeper.

He can play guard. He's a very Packer depth OL.

I don't think any of the picks mean the end of anyone. It's never a bad thing to have rotational DL and competitions for snaps. I mean yeah, LVN's days are numbered, but linemen are just something you never have enough of. I don't know what leverage LVN could have on anybody. He's done nothing. They have to be very confident that Jordan Morgan is fine, though.

Yeah, sorry, but no. It means a ton. It's a high value asset that provided 0 return for 2 years. That's not meaningless. When you use a first round pick on a guy who hasn't played for half of the cheapest contract he's ever going to have, that's a bad pick as of the summer before his third season. I literally said "his journey isn't over yet" before you even jumped into the conversation. This isn't a controversial take. I am basing it on much more than my own opinion and thoughts but you are choosing to be obtuse. I told you they were ranked in the top 1/3 of the league that year, with less investment which I documented for you, than last year's group which was considerably more expensive and ranked below 20th in rushing and passing. None of that is opinion. I'm shocked it's even remotely hot to suggest they've done a bad job developing their OL. The drafting has been mediocre to bad. The coaching which allegedly had guys playing the wrong position, has been bad and a waste of time for several of the guys. The one free agent splash was bad. It's all been pretty bad.

If he isn't playing this season, he blew out a knee or was an embarrassment. They have nothing there. I suppose another scenario is they find a gem today or off the street. Everyone knows that two starting corners is a bit of a joke anyway. Three of them are effectively starters.

May not have a choice in that room. If he's an average NFL player it's entirely possible he outplays every corner they have at the moment. One injury and he's automatically getting significant time. I am not sure they win the Super Bowl without Sam Shields as a UDA his rookie year.

Yeah, that is the one saving grace. I actually have more confidence in him bolstering their offensive line this weekend. Probably don't want him looking for first round Ts anymore.

Yeah that is a seriously terrible argument for those guys not being any good. They rarely signed OL to large contracts because they had justifiably high confidence in finding new ones cheap and they had to pay Aaron Rodgers, and of course forked over the cash to protect his blindside with the best. They did it as well or better than any team in the league. They are not doing it anymore and that's how Aaron Banks happens.

What the heck does it even mean to say I'm being subjective here? You can't just throw that around like it's a thing. It's a message board and everyone is subjective. Their offensive line right now is "objectively" worse than it has been most of the last 20 years, and that's despite some pretty valuable assets tied up in it. I just laid out for you a very stark difference between today and the year you picked as the look back. It's pretty damn glaring. They have 20+ games started that year by UDAs. I didn't say Morgan sucks. I said he's a first round pick who hasn't played in 2 years. That's a very bad first round pick at this point in time. You need to get more out of draft capital than that. I think it's a very vanilla observation to say they have been worse at drafting OL.

Have to include the UDAs which they are no longer getting the same value out of. Since you picked 2020 here is their OL in the 2021 season during which Bhaktiari (again, a 4th who became the best T in the league) did not play. They were decimated by injuries across the board and still ended up in the top 1/3 of the league. Nijman UDA Runyan 6th Myers 2nd Lucas Patrick UDA Billy Turner Modest FA Royce Newman 4th Compare that to our group: Jordan Morgan 1st Tom 4th Sean Rhyan 3rd Belton 2nd Banks Expensive FA They're a lot worse despite using more resources. Not good, but the Packers, not just the last 5 years, but for a looooong time, have had a widely admired ability to pick up great, not just good, OL from later rounds and the street. They are not doing that at the moment.

Right and they acquired a CB and DL already via other methods and have done nothing on what was a bad OL. The worst spot on which is their LT, arguably the most important guy on the line. They still needed another CB badly, no issues there. DL depth never hurt anyone so again, the pick is fine. BrewerFan has way, way more confidence in Morgan than anywhere else, I'll say that. This is a first round pick that hasn't played in his first 2 seasons, could not beat out a guy we let walk in FA for a one-year deal. His journey isn't over yet, but today he is a bad pick, bad player and we are relying on him to start. They have one backup OL who has played over 60 snaps. Real issue is that they have lost their historic ability to develop stellar offensive linemen from any round in the draft. and you are seeing the results. We will see what happens...their best CB of the last 15 years was a UDA...so, whatever.

And this is all assuming the starters won't miss 20 games among them, which seems to happen every year. CB was a glaring hole. I would have liked an OL with the second pick.

I don't have a big problem with either selection but they did address both positions with veterans already. The left side of that line is a huge question mark. I don't really care what Banks is getting paid if he plays like he did last year. Jordan Morgan lost his job to Walker. I am not sure why anyone would assume that someone picked today wouldn't be an upgrade to him just because he was a bad first round pick 2 years ago. He is playing one of the most important positions on the field.

Packers must really believe they don't have an OL problem. I hope they're right.

I don't follow college or the draft but you have to love a guy named Big Citrus.

I get the feeling Giannis has been inhaling his own supply for a bit too long now. Likely in large part due to being bored because of injuries and non competitive seasons. It feels like he is going to commit to be here and expect a hero's worshipping for it, when everybody is pretty sick of listening to him talk about it, and also aware that they can't really win anyway. I like the guy, but I'm just over it, and I've accepted our time in the sun has come to an end.

Cisse isn't even 21 years old for another 3 months.

Aye, but it didn't really feel like that until the last 4-5 weeks of the season. Also not great, but that is the reality when you have a top 5 defensive player on your roster who's an elite pass rusher. That said, I don't feel overly optimistic about the Packers this year. Some of that is reality, some of it is conditioning to the glass ceiling they've established the last 5 years. They have bad OL and bad corners, not places you want to be bad in today's NFL. Then almost everywhere you think they're strong, they're dependent on rehab from major injuries. I don't really know what to expect. It's not delusion to think they're a contender if they hold together, but I can just as easily see a 2018 blow-it-up season coming.

Good hire but the least of their problems at the moment. And that's saying something because this was a major problem.

Devin Williams is mentally weak and I wouldn't want him in any role other than pitching the 6th inning sporadically for the Brewers. He is Jeremy Jeffress. He can succeed but only in the most hand-picked of circumstances. Everyone should have been able to tell that the Brewers success is organizational, not tied to Stearns. It's just comical to think that one single person could be most responsible for running an MLB franchise. It's not physically possible. Way too many moving parts. Not that the NFL is "easy" but baseball has a million layers to it.

I may be misunderstanding this but not sure what a money manager is supposed to do when a kid can sign with Duke knowing Gatorade will offer him something much more lucrative than the school, that is simply not happening if he signs with Central Michigan. Wisconsin is a bit lucky in bball. The rosters are small enough that there's plenty of talent left to trickle down to them as 2nd or 3rd tier team, and still be competitive. You can't really say they're worse than before, outside of a few great runs. I just hate the turnover year to year. It's not fun.