HiAndTight

Two words. Mat Gamel. In other words, the last sweet swinging power hitting first base prospect that we putzed around with with until two torn ligaments cost him any chance of a future with the Brewers. This is a pattern I've seen with Melvin over the years. Sometimes, good players are blocked from advancing to the Majors. If you look at the Los Angeles Dodgers, they've got a kid named Joc Pederson that is going to be good. Real good. Really really good. Unfortunately, they have such a log jam in the outfield, he can't get any playing time with the parent club. Pederson at AAA Albuquerque this season: 44 games played, 170 ABs, 42 runs, 61 hits, 8 doubles, 0 triples, 14 home runs, 29 RBI, 13 stolen bases, 33 BBs, 54 Ks, .359 AVG, and a slash line of .463/.653/1.116. But with the Brewers, some of the guys that we have in the minors that have proven whatever they're going to prove, continue to toil wondering if their day is ever going to come. Melvin just waits too long with some of these prospects. Khris Davis was 25 before he ever made it to the bigs. Who's our top prospect right now? Jimmy Nelson. How old? 24. 25 on June 5th. Most of the other teams in the Majors, their top prospects are seeing the Majors at least a year or two younger than those in Milwaukee. Hunter Morris is 26 in October. How much longer, Doug? It's funny, someone was just making the argument that we rush our prospects too quickly. Anyway, I don't think you can blame Melvin for Gamel. Gamel had two freak knee injuries. Prior to that he was 22 in his first big league experience and 23 when he was given extended big league at bats. Not sure what we should have done there. Davis was very good in the minors in 2012, but was injured and limited to 82 games and we had a very good lineup and an OF of Aoki, Gomez and Braun. Morris should be up. Who else should have been up sooner?

This is akin to saying that Roenicke has used Thornburg and or Smith as mop up guys this year. He hasn't. The closest either have come is Thornburg coming in for Gallardo and Smith coming in with a 5 run lead after he was already warmed up and the Brewers scored 4 in their half of an inning. Schafer meanwhile has ONE start this year as a leadoff hitter, and it was when Gomez was out of the lineup and we were putting out a lineup similar to a AAA lineup and had VERY poor options. Maybe part of the problem is the perception that Roenicke is "always," doing these things that he's simply not doing. I didn't say 'always', did I? Don't strawman me. Hitting a .280 OBP guy leadoff once, is one time too many. Just because he was subbing for Gomez doesn't mean he has to hit him leadoff. That's a very Yost-ian move, if ever there was one. He's also used Herrera in the leadoff spot, FWIW. I'm not trying strawmanning anyone. You said he "plays him and hits him leadoff!" He did it once when Gomez, Ramirez and Braun were all out of the lineup and Gennett and Lucroy hits 3rd and 4th(and were our best options), and he did it the day after Gomez came out of the game with an injury. I was using the previous comment about Smith and Thornburg and trying to disprove some of the misconceptions about what Roenicke does. I'm not sure what a "Yost-ian," move is, but anyone he would have hit leadoff would have been a terrible choice and used as an example save for perhaps Lucroy that particular day. He also walked twice and scored a run in a 4-3 win...for what that's worth(which isn't much admittedly). The fact is there were just no good choices. And when he went with Herrera, he had come up from AAA hitting .460 or something over his last 10 games and just had 2 base hits the day before. We don't have a leadoff hitter to begin with, so things only get that much worse when you take your #1,#3,#4 hitters out and then have to give your normal #5 hitter a day off in Lucroy while dealing with such an awful bench.

He's also not walking as much as I thought he would by this point. His BABIP is just .233 vs his career ave of .292, but his numbers still look bad. That doesn't change my opinion that we should have tried to get a better return for him, but I digress.

Why is everyone so eager to move such a talented kid with a good bat out from behind the plate? I've been saying this since last year, but Coulter has absolutely every tool you need to be a very good defensive catcher....I certainly hope they leave him there for the time being. I've personally seen this kid wrestle in HS and he was incredibly athletic and agile, and I've seen him catch. He's raw, but the areas in which he struggles are area's that simply take repetition. He has all the requisite skills. Arm, flexibility, quickness... Anyway, regarding Ramirez vs Morris, I thought Ramirez was considered to be a fantastic defender? I thought I just read his manager say he's as good at picking the ball at 1st as he's ever seen? May be hyperbole, but other than the PCL managers voting Morris the best defensive 1st basemen, I thought scouts questioned his defense? Just asking for other opinions as I haven't seen either play much.

The Brewers are not the ones who made Marco Estrada a starter. He started 103 of the 109 games he pitched in while in the minors(88 GS in 94 Appearances while in Washington's farm system). He just wasn't good enough to make their big league rotation. So I don't see how he's setting a new precedent every time he takes the mound. Jimmy Nelson has more appearances as a reliever in his minor league career than Marco Estrada. Estrada's career is the same as countless others who came up as starters, couldn't make the big league rotation so they used him as a long man until another team gave him a chance. There really isn't anything unique about that. And if you want to say I'm "harping," about the fact that he's never pitched a full season as a starter, fine, but you don't think other teams just may be a bit concerned about that fact? As for his lack of velocity, fine, lets say it's not causing any problems for him now(although he is leading the league in HR's allowed and has an FIP of 5.03 and a career low BABIP of .252). If he loses any more velocity and he's throwing 86-87, his change is going to be less effective. RE: Bud Norris, not sure why he keeps getting brought up though. First of all, yes, I would have rather had Bud Norris if I was trading for a starting pitcher last year than Marco Estrada if I was a contending team. But Bud Norris didn't exactly net the Astro's a big return. The Astro's got two low level prospects and a draft pick from Baltimore. We got more for K-Rod. He certainly didn't get them anything close to what some are suggesting on here. And he's 2 years younger, has been more valuable in his career(8.1 career WAR vs 4.9 career WAR) while being 2 years younger. So I don't really think you're making the argument you think you are by using Bud Norris as a comparable pitcher. But to your larger point, you asked, IF Marco Estrada had been healthy last year at the trade deadline. Well....isn't that the issue? Teams want to know a pitcher at least has a history of being able to pitch a full season. Especially if they're giving up a big bat to play LF, or a guy who can come in and start at 3rd base.

The previous two years he's hit ~.300/.335...albeit with little power. Who cares if it's for a corner OF spot if it's for Logan Schafer as has been suggested? Would you feel better moving Gomez to LF and putting Revere in CF so their power numbers match up with their positions better? Revere can also steal a lot of bases. If he really could come cheap, I'd happily insert him into the #2 hole in our lineup. The same argument came up in the Weeks to LF thread when someone said, "if Weeks won't move, why not move Gennett," and the argument was that Gennett shouldn't play LF because he doesn't hit for enough power. You can sacrifice power or the expected level of offense at the traditional offensive positions if you're getting it from CF, C or other places you normally don't get it from. Not worth what? Logan Schafer? That's the only name that's been thrown around on here. Revere's OBP in 2012 and 2013 was .335. That's higher than everyone but Lucroy(.395), Gomez(.374) and Braun(.333) from this years regulars. I think he would stick with Gomez hitting leadoff, but given our lineup, he'd be fine hitting 2nd. I would also like a bigger bat out there in LF, but if Revere is cheap...he'd be a nice fit. He's the type of guy where I think people can overvalue OPS a bit. He hits for a pretty good average and he steals bases. And he'd be a very good defender in LF.

We didn't exactly "dump," Aoki. We traded him for a 24 year old power lefty who can SU, Close or, hopefully in the future, start. And if you believe Davis should be platooned, you're saying he should only play roughly twice a week. So you're advocating pulling the plug on him more than someone suggesting we trade him for a good everyday big league player right now.

Gotcha. That certainly makes sense. The problem however is that I don't believe Davis really has much value right now. Even if I agree with you(and I'm on the fence) that Davis would turn into .270/.345 27-35HR, why would Tampa Bay or any other organization share such a belief? Yeah, if you think Davis is going to be that good, then of course teams would want him. But if we believe he's going to be that good, why bother trading him? To me right now he's a guy who's pretty unproven. He had a very nice run last year, but he wasn't an elite prospect and he's struggled really badly in his other two stints in the big leagues. As for Meyers, yeah, he's struggling. But he's going to be a stud. Maybe just DH'ing for a little while or here and there could help, but for a lot of players, that just makes them more anxious for their AB's since they're not really a part of the game other than their AB's. Yeah, not sure how it's structured exactly. Cots usually has the best(more accurate numbers). He definitely signed a 1 year 21 million dollar deal. Cots says it's structured the way I wrote. Baseball Reference's numbers aren't accurate here. You say it was stupid to not sign him as if signing a player is entirely up to us. Loney played in Tampa Bay last year. He had a career resurgence last year while playing in Tampa, they were a clear cut contender before Moore, Cobb, Hellickson and others went on the DL. So perhaps he chose Tampa over Milwaukee. Plus, he's also increased his value by performing even better this year(he's not hitting for a lot of power, but he is putting up a .311/.375 line which would really be a great fit batting leadoff for the Brewers). Plus I don't understand why you'd be reluctant to deal Roache or Jungman when you're on board with dealing Jimmy Nelson. That's baffling. Nelson has front of the rotation type stuff, and he's performing like a potential front of the rotation type pitcher right now. I'd give up Roache in a heartbeat for James Loney. Probably not Taylor and certainly not Coulter. I didn't forget about, or "banish," anybody. In fact, that question should have been answered when I specifically stated that I thought Thornburg would be given a chance to start in my very last post. But what I didn't want to do was trade the best pitching prospect of all the guys you've mentioned. What has Hellweg or Pena done for the record to give you ANY type of confidence they can be really good pitchers? Garza is a good pitcher, but he's been pretty consistently injured the last couple years. It's anything but a stretch that his contract is not going to work out great. I doubt he pitches 800 innings over the 4 years of his deal. I'll be happy with ~550-575 from him. Jungman looks like a nice innings eater at this point, not a lot more. Could very well end up being a reliever. Either way, I don't want to count on him to be in the rotation after next year. Thornburg and Smith look good. But hitting on really good pitching is having numbers. I want the Brewers to build a rotation with young, preferably cheap, POWER pitchers. Nobody else has the upside of Nelson in our farm system right now. He has a mid 90's fastball he gets a lot of GB's with, And if we find ourselves in the position of having excess funds to spend on starting pitchers from the roughly 50-55 million dollars coming off the roster from Yo, Aram, Weeks and Lohse, we would probably be better served signing position players where I believe you get a better return on your investment. But no matter what type of talent we've got, even if we had 5 aces in our rotation for the foreseeable future, why would we trade a player for less than he's worth? That's kinda your argument here. Nelson is expendable because we have other guys.

I don't see what difference this makes? So we made the wrong choice regarding 1st base coming into the year. Loney is having another very good year and is a very good defensive 1st basemen. It also allows Reynolds to play 3rd base in Aram's absence..which in a best case scenario means he plays for the next couple weeks and then fills in on occasion for ARam the rest of the year. But because we made a mistake, I don't see why we should compound the mistake by not trading for Loney. How would it be better to trade a prospect for a worse option who wasn't a FA this past off-season? Loney signed a 3 year 21 million dollar deal. According to Baseball Reference, Loney is only earning 2.6 million dollars this year. His contract is still affordable the next two years at 8.6 and 9.6. So it's a little bit more this year, not the next two years. But again, so what? We'd be keeping Reynolds and dumping Overbay. Reynolds can do more than Overbay. The point though is to improve the team. Loney is a significant upgrade and he's not that expensive. What we could or should have done doesn't really matter right now, does it? Meyers is a right handed hitter who hits both lefties and right handers very well, and is a middle of the order type hitter. I doubt they would platoon him even if Davis was a leftie. It just doesn't make sense. They might have enough pitching on May 22nd, 2014. I don't really see how they have enough pitching going forward though when you consider that Gallardo has been declining and has one option year left, Lohse is in his late 30's and one year left on his contract, Estrada has never made it through a full season. We've finally built a deep group of young pitchers(relatively deep group). Why would we want to give that up now? I agree with you that I don't want to trade Nelson, but I also don't think Thornburg is cemented into the rotation as our future closer, or even a reliever right now. Both Melvin and Roenicke have said repeatedly that he would likely be given a shot to start again in the future, but right now he is helping the team out the most as a reliever. His success there doesn't mean he's automatically going to stay there.

Yeah, guys like Randle, Gordon and others may have all star potential, but the consensus among scouts and execs are that there are 4 potential, POTENTIAL franchise changing players in this draft. This isn't some conspiracy by ESPN. Whatever you think of ESPN, why on Earth would they want to do that? I don't believe you move out of a position to draft Embid, Exum or Wiggins. I'm not as big of a fan of Parker. I think Embid is the guy who could have the biggest impact, but big guys do scare me...even if it's not fair and even if his health is not in question right now(which I don't think it is as his back injury has healed). The only trade I'd make is with Orlando. If they want to give up both of their lottery picks for ours, fine. We take Exum and then have options with the Magic's 2nd pick. Exum might not be a "proven," player in the sense that we haven't seen him play, but his athleticism and size is extrodinary. He's faster than guys like Chris Paul, Curry and Lillard, and at 6'6 he gives you a long, athletic PG to paid with Giannis. The only thing that scares me about him is his desire to play for the Lakers. Based on just a gut feeling, I sense that Wiggins would be more likely to stick around and sign on to play in Milwaukee than Exum.

Yes, he's on the DL, but he's expected back as soon as he's eligible to come off and the Rays hesitated even putting him on the DL as they believed he may not need two weeks to recover. And sure, he's lost some power and speed. His overall numbers were down last year, but he had a nice 2nd half in which his power was back up and his OPS was about .800. A pretty valuable asset as he can play pretty much every position other than C. He still plays SS for the Rays from time to time. Obviously he's not ideal as a SS, but here and there he's fine. I really hope I'm wrong and he's available for less than I'm thinking he'll be. He'd be a perfect fit in Milwaukee. He and Loney could solve a whole lot of our problems.

Is this supposed to be in blue? Send down Scooter? huh? Once again, I am shocked at the perception of Scooter. Outside of that hot start that is not backed up by any of his minor league numbers last year, this is the perception of him. He's a .270/.305/.390 guy that is 'OK' on defense, can't play every day because of a platoon situation, and only plays 2B. He's also wasting a roster spot. Those were also his numbers in the minors essentially. In the PCL, you usually subtract .100 or so from the OPS for guys at .900 to project them in the majors. The way Scooter hits, I'd subtract a bit less, but he was around .730-.750 there, so I'll peg him in the .680-.700 range. Maybe if he gets favorable enough platoon games, a shade over .700. First of all, if you want to send Gennett down, who are you going to replace him with? Second, his minor league numbers actually do back up what he did last year...to a degree. Nobody expected him to his around .330 as a full time player, but his minor league numbers were very good. He was a ~.300 hitter with a ~.340 OBP and a .410 SLG. That was with him moving up one level each year and him being young for each league. I don't need any messages from the organization regarding what they're planning on doing the next 5 years. And it's just as premature to call him a .690 hitter as it was to call him an .830 guy last year. Actually, it's more premature this year. He's 23 years old and has 135 AB's this year. Not sure when that was enough time to waive the white flag and give up on a guy, particularly when you don't have any other options.

This is akin to saying that Roenicke has used Thornburg and or Smith as mop up guys this year. He hasn't. The closest either have come is Thornburg coming in for Gallardo and Smith coming in with a 5 run lead after he was already warmed up and the Brewers scored 4 in their half of an inning. Schafer meanwhile has ONE start this year as a leadoff hitter, and it was when Gomez was out of the lineup and we were putting out a lineup similar to a AAA lineup and had VERY poor options. Maybe part of the problem is the perception that Roenicke is "always," doing these things that he's simply not doing.

This is the type of logic people use to justify their own beliefs. Ie, if the Pirates didn't even protect him, then they must not have thought highly of him. People used the same rationale for why Aaron Rodgers wasn't going to be a great QB. 24 teams wouldn't have passed on him if he was that good. How about Albert Pujols who teams passed on 12 times. Or Mike Trout who went 27th in the draft? They sure thought highly of him when they offered him a good sized signing bonus to sign with their organization. Perhaps they didn't believe there was a risk of him being selected? Perhaps they just have a whole lot of talent in their organization they wanted to protect. And if you find it "that funny," that people believe other teams would pull the trigger on him, take it up with Doug Melvin who has made it clear he doesn't believe there is any chance he would clear waivers. So..must not be that funny. What's funny is the overreaction to a Rule 5 guy getting predictably rocked and everyone claiming he could cost us a playoff spot.

Are you referring to the game the other night in Atlanta? We were only down one run. Yes I was referring to the game in Atlanta(among the 6 he's pitched in) and that was the lone close game that he pitched in. The only game that someone can make a real argument that he may have "cost us." Again though, I completely understand the logic. Kimbrel is freakishly good. He's got a career K rate of 15.2 per 9 and we had Reynolds, Davis and I believe Maldanado coming up. So we weren't like going to win that game. Most of those teams could have had Wang themselves in the Rule 5 months ago if they really wanted him. He surely hasn't done anything to raise his trade value since then. Certainly? I would disagree with that. He's fulfilled a large portion of the service time that the major league team is required to have him on the active roster. I have a much bigger problem with several spots on this roster right now than I do with Wang being on it. Absolutely. There is SOOO much knee jerk reactions from Wang every time he has a bad outing. I don't think Wang's confidence is being hurt whatsoever since he talked about the journey to make a major league team equating it to trying to swim across the ocean. This tells me he realizes the situations he's in. Once the Brewers replace Lyle Overbay with Hunter Morris(at least just to try it out for now), replace Herrera with Taylor Green or whoever, and go out and try and add a competent backup SS/utility IF'er for Bianchi, then maybe I'll start worrying about a roster spot that almost always sucks..for lack of a better word.

Zobrist has been a ~6 WAR player the past 5 years(prior to this year). So despite his early struggles, I think it would take a Nelson type prospect to get him..which I would certainly hope we wouldn't consider. The guy can play anywhere and is a switch hitter. He's going to be extremely valuable. Plus he only costs 7 million this year and 7 million next year. I think next years contract makes him more valuable, not less. I would think a lot of teams would have interest in him. Loney is exactly the type of player this team needs. LH'ed bat, good OBP, and if the Rays aren't in it this year, and with Moore's injury, Cobb and Helickson being injured(as well as Zobrist at the moment) he would seem to be the most likely option. All three would be great, but unless we're willing to deal any of our top prospects, which again, I hope we don't(Nelson, Coulter, Taylor) I think they'll get better offers. I think it's going to be really interesting to see what the Rays do this summer if they're out of it. They have a chance to really re-load their farm system with these three, Price and even Balfour if he gets it together.

The logic of putting him on the 25 man roster is clear. So we can control his rights. If you don't question his talent or his projectability, then I'm not sure what there is to question about it? And you can question Roenicke's use of the BP, but when exactly has Thornburg or Smith been used in "mop up duty?" I think RR has been very good with the BP this year, as good as any other manager I've seen. I understand why some might be upset throwing Wang into a 1 run game, but Kimbrel isn't just good, he's historically good, especially vs RH'ed hitters and we had 3 coming up in the bottom of the 9th vs the best closer in the game who are just not very good right now as a group. Smith came into one game with a 5 run lead. Of course we had a 4 run lead when Smith got warmed up to come into the game. Thornburg filled in as a long reliever today when Gallardo left due to a short start. Other than that, both pitchers have been used almost exclusively in 2-3 run games(each pitched in games vs Philly in which we scored 5 runs and 3 runs after each had pitched). So I can't find one single time that either has been used in what would be called "mop up," duty with the ONE possible exception of when Smith threw 19 pitches after we scored the 4 vs AZ and he was already warmed up. The other players I have no arguments with. Bianchi is our backup SS. That's what he should be. He should hit better than he is, but you also shouldn't expect much out of that spot. Overbay should be gone and Morris should be up. Or really anyone. Ramirez from AA, Halton. He's just bad. And Herrera just gives you options. I am confident Herrera and Overbay will be replaced. Maybe Bianchi will as well. And I'm hopeful the Brewers don't overreact and change course after coming so far with Wang. He needs about 10 more days on the active roster and then he can be sent to the DL. And after his latest outing, I doubt anyone would question that. And he can then get I believe up to 6 weeks of rehab in the minors. We could send him down now and bring him back up around the ASB after the BP has had a few days off. But young talented left handers who realistically aren't costing us any games are the types of Rule V draftees you should make ever attempt to hold onto.

Wang DOES have 95 in him, and why does he have to be Randy Johnson or Johan Santana for him to be worth keeping? But since we want to use FB velocity to compare them, Santana had an average FB of 91.0 MPH the year the Twins kept him on their roster as a rule V draftee. I'm not sure what exactly has happened that suggests it's not worth it anymore. He's pitched in 6 games. Given up 0 runs in 3 of them which we lost anyway. Came in for Garza when he had a short start and saved the BP like a long man should do, came in the bottom of the 8th of a game we were down 3 and got rocked and then he got rocked in a close game that we were VERY unlikely to win. But lets say you're assessment is accurate. Even if he "only," has a 10 percent chance to live up to the mid first round pick that some people are putting on him(we're actually quoting Melvin). Is that not in and of itself worth it? And I'm not afraid we're going to lose Johan Santana. I'm worried we're going to lose a very talented young pitcher who MIGHT end up being a very effective big league pitcher. He's the 25th guy on the roster. He's not costing us anything and he doesn't even have to be on our active 25 man roster much longer. I'm curious what people who are changing their mind expected of him coming into the season? He's extremely raw. But he's also got a very good arm. He needs to develop, and in a perfect world, he'd be in our farm system doing just that, and we'd likely be getting very excited following him in Brevard County as a lefty who works in the low 90's, and has the potential for two good pitches. But it's not a perfect world, and dumping him now only gives a Pirates organization that has a loaded farm system another talented young player to develop.

Overbay has an OPS of .677 since the start of the 2011 season. They took a flier hoping he could have a Gabe Kapler like impact as a veteran for us. He hasn't. Giving Morris some at bats, especially while Aram is out and dumping Overbay right now seems like the only logical move. I also don't think he'll offer the same production that Morales can as Morales just hit 23 HR's in the AL West playing his home games in Seattle and has an OPS+ of 121 with a .457 SLG since the start of the 2012 season. So I think Morales is clearly the best option, it makes no sense they wouldn't at least give Morris a chance in the meantime to prove them wrong. I don't know that everyone is "always assuming," they'll get Morales, but it seems to be a foregone conclusion that they'll go after him given their 1st base production is 14th worst in the NL and they're currently in 1st place. I'm sure the prospect of playing for a team in contention, for a team that plays in a lot of hitters parks would appeal to him in an attempt to increase his value for next season. There is also the fact that the Brewers seem to have a fairly good relationship with Boras. So the only thing I'm assuming is that we're going to be pretty aggressive going after him.

Right, IF it was just ONE scout. But it wasn't. It's difficult to dig up the quotes now, but this is from an Adam McCallvy article; That of course is where the owners meetings took place. Regardless though, this was a trade that was made with the Blue Jays because of relationships. As I said, and Zack Minasian was in the Brewers front office and became the Brewers Director of Pro Scouting and his brother Perry Minasian, the Blue Jays Director of Pro Scouting who talked about literally first talked about the trade at Thanksgiving. Then there was also a connection with Roenicke's nephew who was in the Blue Jays organization. And of course the the fact that Lawrie was very popular in Canada. So I don't know how you can possibly say that it was ONE anonymous scout and then discredit the idea that the Brewers didn't shop Lawrie around when key personnel from each front office state that, and there are multiple reports that several team exects were shocked by the trade because they didn't know that Lawrie was available. And as was pointed out, Odorizzi was never expected to be one of the Brewers starters going into 2011. He was coming off a year pitching in LowA, and while it was a good year, I don't recall ever seeing anything about the Brewers even considering him as a starter. And what prospects have the Brewers rushed? If anything, they seem to be extremely conservative with their prospects, pitching prospects in particular. Unless we're going back to Rickie Weeks, who are these pitchers who were rushed?

Estrada was on the 40 man roster in 2010 and then was sent down to AAA after complaining of arm fatigue, a move that many questioned at the time as a way to stay on the big league roster so he could accumulate service time when it looked like he was going to get sent down after making a spot start for them when the staff was depleted. So no, he wasn't on the 40 man roster. However he wasn't exactly this out of nowhere longshot you're making him out to be. Peralta started out that spring pitching very well and the Brewers were considering him for the spot before Estrada earned it. But I don't really see what difference that would make. He made the first 7 starts of the year for Greinke. He was the 1st option. You go into ST'ing and your #5 pitcher is often times a competition. I see no reason why things would have been different had they not acquired Marcum(assuming everything else stays the same). Either way, my issue here is with what the Brewers got back for Lawrie. The conversation going off to if they still make the playoffs without Marcum can be debated a thousand ways because you can argue they would have done things differently. I can argue they could have acquired a durable starting pitcher without giving up Lawrie, and the difference between Marcum and that pitcher likely wouldn't have cost them their 6 game lead over the Cards, or 7 game lead over the top WC team.

Yes, yes and yes. Even with Fernandez having to have Tommy John surgery, the way players come back from it now, sometimes even stronger than before, the list of players in all of baseball who are as valuable as him is a very-very short one.

First of all, you said, "according to your own measure Peralta is even more elite than Fernandez." Then you completely failed to explain to me what measurement I used. It certainly wasn't a small sample size. But since we've used Fernandez and his entire career as a major league pitcher already, lets try it your way by just using Peralta's 2nd half and the start of this year. 2nd half of 2013 Peralta 3.99 ERA Fernandez 1.33 ERA Peralta 1.30 WHIP Fernandez .82 WHIP Peralta 7.6 K/9; 2.11 SO/BB Fernandez 11.1 K/9 4.67 SO/BB Fernandez gave up 38 hits in in 68 innings. That's how dominant he was as a 20 year old kid. Do you realize how good that is? That's not just ace good, that's Pedro in his prime good. That's Koufax type good. That's historically good. How you can try to call him an unproven prospect is just beyond me, and it's even more baffling how you can call Peralta and ace at the same time. So not only was Peralta not even close to Jose Fernandez the 2nd half of last year, Fernandez was insanely good. And this is after a MUCH better 1st half(as compared to Peralta's). 2014 Peralta-2.18 ERA; 3.91 FIP; This would suggest that while Peralta is pitching better, he's had some very good luck. Fernandez-2.44 ERA; 2.13 FIP(best in the league). This suggest that while Fernandez has been very good, he's actually pitched BETTER than his ERA suggests. Fernandez-.94 Whip; 6.3 H/9, .7 HR/9, 2.23 BB/9, 12.2 K/9, 5.38 SO/BB ratio. Peralta- 1.23 whip; 8.9 H/9, 1/1 HR/9, 2.2 BB/9, 6.9 SO/9, 3.14 SO/BB ratio. Oh, and AGAIN, Fernandez is 21 and Peralta is 24. So please explain how "by my measure," or anybody's that Fernandez has been as good as Peralta since the 2nd half of last year? Peralta is improving and he's pitched really well this year. That's incredibly encouraging for the Brewer sake and I hope that he continues to do so, but you're redefining the term homer here by arguing that Peralta is better than Fernandez. And Peralta is not an ace. We hope he develops into one, but he is certainly not one yet. Having faith that the players you root for are going to improve and become good players when they're young is fine. Stating that one player is better than another over a period of time, even a short one, when he's worse in literally every single statistical category is fantasy.

He's still causing serious damage to his arm by throwing such an absurd number of pitches. And if he's not a true prospect, then he's likely not going to have a TJ surgery or anything if he does tear his ulnar ligament. Or he's not going to be able to pitch in Division 2. I've spent a lot of years around HS baseball and I don't think we ever took into consideration if our best pitchers were D-1 prospects, or potential draft picks. An injury is an injury, and throwing almost 200 pitches is just irresponsible. At least that's my opinion on that matter. This may have been the highlight of the kids athletic career and baseball may be an afterthought moving forward. I've just seen WAY too many coaches who pitch kids way too long, and at ages 12-14, throwing far too many curve balls which stresses the elbow even more. The injuries from pitching can be extremely painful later in life. I know guys who weren't major league pitchers who can't straighten their arm, or who have a lot of pain from baseball injuries. And because they weren't Jose Fernandez, they didn't have those injuries treated and then rehab them.

No, this is absolutely, 100 percent false. Throwing a baseball is an unnatural motion. Kids who's bodies are still developing(we're talking about 12-18) absolutely do not need to throw more. The more you throw with maximum effort, the more you throw when you're tired, the more you're damaging the ligaments and tendons in your elbow. Muscle memory has absolutely nothing to do with it in the way you're talking about it. You're talking about after pitching, throwing the ball around the IF. Muscle memory can help with injuries in that it can help pitchers develop good mechanics and repeat their delivery, but they're not doing that throwing the ball from 3rd to 1st. In fact, you're throwing from different arm angles often times depending on position. Throwing a football can certainly strengthen your arm. And I just vehemetly disagree with your final paragraph. Pitchers who can throw in the upper 90's are absolutely more effective than pitchers who throw in the low 90's, all things being equal. Using your logic, at what point does it not become beneficial to throw the ball harder? Is throwing 90-93 as effective as throwing 87-90? No, of course not. Being able to throw 100 MPH gives the hitter that much less time to see the ball, react, and if you're worried about a 100 MPH fastball, you're far more prone to getting fooled by other pitches. I also don't understand this. In what ways do you believe that pitchers in general are training like football players, which is what I assume you meant? High level pitchers and pitching coaches certainly aren't training their pitchers to lift like football players. At least now when it comes their arms. They are, and absolutely SHOULD be training like football players...if by that you mean using free weights and trying to get bigger. Building your legs is almost as important as building up your arm strength, as is building up your core. The torque, the power you need from your lower half....the same exercises that build the explosiveness you look for in football work in baseball. Squats, lunges, any one of about 100 core workouts. And free weights are better than machines the majority of the time as you work more muscle groups as you need your stabilizing muscles. Incidentally, using a belt when squatting is also a bad idea unless you're doing heavy weights as it doesn't help build your core. Your lower back muscles. Obviously nobody has perfected how to best train pitchers yet, but there are some things that are well known things to avoid. A young kid who's developing should certainly limit how much he throws when he's tired as that's when you put the most strain on your arm. They should have their pitches and innings and just how much they throw limited. They should take long periods of time off as the very action of throwing a ball overhand with maximum effort tears the muscle fibers in your arm and they need time to heal. The younger kids should throw primarily fastballs, changeup's and do little more than play around with breaking balls. When they're out of HS, and their body has matured, well, there are different schools of thought here. Long tossing from 150 feet moving back to 200-250 feet, throwing a football as you mentioned and throwing more MIGHT work. I know Nolan Ryan endorses some of these. However I think he was simply a freak and is the exception to the rule.