HiAndTight

Well, since the question is the Brewers interest as of June 12th, I don't think the level of interest, whatever way it goes is going to change the point of this thread. I still also believe this team is playing over it's head. Sometimes teams have those magical seasons and they do it for an entire season. More often than not they regress a bit. I keep expecting the Cards to start gaining ground and yet they're still 5.5 games back. So maybe this is one of those years where we keep it going. I certainly hope so.

I'm a huge Brewers fan like everyone on here...and I'm completely enveloped in this team right now. But there are a couple reasons why I MIGHT have been even a little bit more excited in past years. 1-When we went to the playoffs the last couple times we had what looked like dominant front end starting pitchers. We had CC and Sheets, and we all know how good CC was and Sheets could be, and we were holding out hope that Yo, another guy who at the time we thought might end up being in that category were fronting our rotation. In 2011 we had Greinke a better Gallardo and Marcum was our #3 and was having a very good year, led the league in SLG, HR's, 2nd in OPS and had Prince/Braun/Weeks and Hart all at or near their primes. This team just seems to be built to win in the regular season moreso than the post-season and after making the playoffs a couple times recently, I don't think Brewers fans are quite as excited at the prospect of just making the post-season. They want to win. I realize that once you get in, crazy things happen. Kyle Lohse and Wily Peralta can out pitch Kershaw and Greinke. But I'm still not quite convinced we're AS good as our record shows. 2-And this has to do with the bold, for some reason I get a little bit more excited about a team that is loaded with young prospect, guys who you're waiting to see get called up, guys who are rookies or younger players and you have that sense of excitement about getting to see them. We have Nelson, but other than that, our lineup is pretty much just set. Again, none of this means I'm not loving every inning of this season. What Lucroy is doing reminds me of Molitor(just the pure hitting ability...even the swing). Gomez is maybe the funnest guy in the league to watch. Braun might be the best offensive player in team history...and we do have some young guys who are fun to watch. Segura's game saving diving play behind 2nd base a couple nights ago, Khris Davis coming out of his slump and proving he's a legit big league LF'er who should put up an OPS of .850 or so(over 1.000 the last 4 weeks), Peralta is absolutely dominant when he's on...Will Smith, the list goes on. So those are my two reasons why other years have maybe been SLIGHTLY more exciting...but I would guess that some fans are just a little bit spoiled because we've been relatively competitive the last 7-8 years. But by in large, fans are going to the games and I think people ARE pretty fired up.

Chavez would be outstanding. Prado might be an even better option because of his versatility. But the D-backs would have to eat at least 11 million dollars of the remaining 22 owed in '15 and '16. That might be a deal breaker. But he could be our solution to 3rd base the next two years....although he's struggled just a bit this year.

He has certainly proven he's one of the best in the game since the start of last year and the year before that, he was just a very good overall player. But don't you have just a little concern in the back of your mind that he's the type of guy who could slump and struggle offensively a great deal? He's locked in right now and even if he was a .280 hitter, he'd be a top 10 player overall most likely, I still have a small fear that he could really drop off offensively with his all or nothing type approach. I think even if that happened, he'd still be a very good player, but not a 6-7-8 WAR player. He seems more prone to a regression than Lucroy for example. Still, outside of Trout or McCutchen, I can't think of a CF'er who'd be more valuable as a FA right now. Buxton will be up there in a few years, maybe even higher than Trout, but agree...the only others I can think of that could be in the conversation is Puig and MAYBE Ellsbury. Buxton looks like a GREAT prospect, but Trout? Trout might end up being the best player of my lifetime. When was the last time a player came up and was as physically talented and productive as Trout? In fact, when was the last time a player came up with Trout's ability? Mickey Mantle? Plus, Buxton is 20 and in A+. Trout was dominating MLB as a 20 year old. It does seem like there are more really outstanding young OF'ers coming up right now than there has been in a while. If you throw Harper, Trout into the mix, Buxton, Polanco, Taveras, Springer, Puig...

I think just the opposite is true. Burgos, Hellweg, Wang, Pena and Figaro were never really guys who were talked about as being impact pitchers on this team. Gorzelanny's injury is offset by how effective Duke has been. Henderson's injury has hurt, but K-Rod stepped in and has been extremely productive. And we didn't know how good Nelson and Fiers were going to be. We were hopeful. There are also guys in AAA who are pitching very well and are good options beyond those two. Mills, Jeffress has pitched well in Nashville, Leon is down there and has a great arm. Not to mention a couple of arms in AA who if we really got down to it could help. Our depth still looks pretty good even if you take Estrada out of the equation.

Are you suggesting this is a lot? How many pitches per game would be acceptable to you? I guess there is just absolutely no pleasing some fans. There was one post in which someone complained, in the same paragraph about Roenicke taking Garza out and not letting him work out of his own jam, and then in the next sentance complaining about the following start(Baltimore) when RR DID try to let Garza work out of his jam and he gave up the lead. These complete morons who aren't paying any attention to bullpen usage(despite the fact that RR talks about it regularly) have managed to use the bullpen less than all but 4 teams in the NL and are 23rd in IP by relievers in MLB. So apparently everyone GM and Manager have no clue what they're doing...according to you. By the way, Rob Wooten, your example of how we're overusing our BP has pitched a whole...4.2 IP in June. So it's possible you never noticed how much work he was getting...because he's really not getting that much. We have ONE reliever who's ranked in the top 30 in innings pitched. K-Rod. We have do have 3 relievers ranked in the top 80 in appearances. K-Rod(our closer, pretty cut and dry there). Will Smith, one of the best relievers in the game, and Zack Duke, a left handed specialist. So when you dig a little deeper, you see we're not only not overusing our BP, we're actually using them less than just about every other team out there.

Yeah, would have liked to see him make it through 7. He was only at 92 pitches. But as long as Wooten can get through the 8th, we should be alright.

Yeah, because if one thing is true about this years Brewers teams, it's that they're really bad in these close games! The Brewers have continually won games like this all year long. I don't think they've really blown many chances at scoring. They loaded them in the 1st on some really weak hits and then got some nice, timely hitting. And Peralta was outstanding as was Segura's D behind him.

Definitely a fun thread.... I guess it's at least as believable as his "called shot". Yeah, but the "called shot," story is so much more fun. C'mon, the Cubs, AT Wrigley, the Chicago fans booing him in the World Series and Ruth points to CF and hits one out? I'll suspend any critical thinking on this one and just go with the legend!

I think what the kid did was pretty immature. I agree with those on "pedestals," on this thread. I don't agree with those who are taking the position that Machado is some unproven young kid. He's a budding superstar. He's an incredible 3rd basemen and he'd be and will likely be a great SS once Hardy is gone. He also hit exceptionally well for a 20 year old in the AL East. That type of defensive ability with the potential to be a .300 hitter with 30 HR power? What's not to like? Other than the whole whining because someone tagged him too hard and throwing his bat at someone. Hopefully these are isolated incidents. Who knows what's going on in his personal life and he is just 21. I'll give him a pass(after his suspension which I agree should have been at least 10 games and then maybe-MAYBE dropped to 7 or 8) if he doesn't turn into someone who regularly does this. Similar to Robbie Alomar and the spitting at the ump thing. That doesn't define him in my eyes and Machado can change my opinion in the same way.

And that's incredibly easy to say after the fact, but at the time he was ranked among the top 10 by most draft pundits and at one point that year thought to be a potential top 3 pick. He was not a pedestrian talent. We had two picks at 12 and 15 and we got two top 10 talents. Everyone was thrilled when we signed Arnett. Go back and look at the drafts from the last 15 years. There are going to be a lot of names you haven't heard of/thought of in a long time in the first round because of the nature of pitching. Sied's "mentor," drafted position players which are far less risky(though obviously still very risky). That's who he had success with. I don't recall him developing many pitchers, much less many front line starters. What exactly is "first tier," FB velocity then for a starting big league pitcher? It sounds to me that while some posters may be a bit too high on prospects, your disdain with most things Brewers related comes down to just wildly unrealistic expectations. Those types of pitchers come around once in a generation. A pitcher who checks every box. Reguarly going 7 innings on 110 pitches, throwing 95+, 2-3 plus pitches, great control, great strikeout pitcher...all while developing in the minors. You realize that often times pitchers in the minors sacrifice performance in order to work on developing pitches. Either way, you quantify these things in such a limited way to make your point. Nelson didn't look good in Wisconsin. Without knowledge of what he was trying to work on, it's hard to make a real sound assessment. But he's dominated at every other level and he checks off every single criteria you're looking for. Right now we have Peralta and Nelson who both have 1st tier fastball velocity(Peralta had one of the top FB's in the league last year and Nelson is very similar in terms of velocity). But of course having velocity is only half of it. Both of them throw a very heavy, moving FB. Something Thornburg doesn't do. They get GB's. That means a guy like Peralta can get by with more walks. Nelson has shown the ability to drastically limit his walks as he adjusts at every level. In essence you're saying that we don't have a Clayton Kershaw in our system...and you're going back to this year or that year to further your argument that we're lacking in high ceiling players. Well, the thing about high ceiling players is they often struggle early on. More mature pitchers with lower ceilings tend to put up the numbers you're looking for. And I would add that leaving our GB/FO ratio is a huge ere in evaluation. We do need at least 1 or 2 front line starters in order to contend in the post-season, but based on your criteria, how many pitchers are there in the game who fit? How many staffs? LAD...Washington maybe, Detroit and who else?

What about the idea of taking Thanasis with one of the Bucks 2nd round picks just looking down the road to keep Giannis happy. With the type of talent he is, IF he develops, if he somehow reaches his potential, he could be a franchise changing player. A top 5 player in the NBA. Now as close as he is with his family, and the prospect of adding a elite young talent in this draft class who we might have to convince to stay in Milwaukee as well, I would think these could all come together at some point. Thanasis makes it more likely Giannis stays in Milwaukee(not that I think he's the type to bolt, especially if he maxes out and earns a max deal which he would in this perfect scenario) and Dante Exum, Embiid or Wiggins might be more inclined to stay in Milwaukee with a new Arena, an invigorated fan base and a team that's clearly on the path to winning(again, assuming Giannis turns into the 7 footer who can..though likely won't play SG, defend all 5 positions and has the athletic ability to dominate on both ends). Don't get me wrong, we need to worry about adding the best player available 1st, but after that, with a 2nd rounder, we could take this into consideration. By the way, lets just dream for a second that everything works out perfectly the next two years for the Bucks. 1st-Draft Embiid with the pick this year. 2nd-With Embiid and Giannis being so raw, both 7 footers, this team is going to struggle next year as well. The Bucks will likely end up with a higher lottery pick next year. Hell, they could get lucky like the Cavs and end up in the top 3. But I think Mudiay will be there around pick 4-7. 3rd-CJ Wilcox is a late 1st, early 2nd round pick. He's a great shooter and would be a great fit here. I don't really know what to do with the SG position yet. Maybe it's Knight for the moment, but that's a position we need to get better at. Middleton could start there as well(hell, Giannis played there this year, so I don't know it matters all that much who is the 2 and who is the 3). 4th-See if you can get rid of Mayo, Ersan and Zaza for whatever you can get. I'm looking at a lineup of; Emmanuel Mudiay-6'5 PG who is still growing. A mix of Marcus Smart with a physical frame and MCW's. A big, powerful PG. SG-CJ Wilcox 6'5 SG who can shoot the lights out Giannis-SF 7' athletic FREAK who can do anything on the court and looks like a star at times(and totally lost at others). Henson-PF 6'11 Just a very good, solid, hard worker who has exploded for huge games at times. Hopefully can get more consistent. Embiid-7' who has the potential to be a Hakeem type player. Another BIG time boost or bust type player, but the boom...Jesus that makes it worth while. The big question here is SG obviously. You could play Knight there, but I like him as a Gordon type scorer off the bench. A second unit of Wolters/Knight/Middleton/Sanders/Adrien/Raduljica/Thanasis With whatever you can get for Ersan/Mayo/Zaza and Delfino would be up by then. Let this young group of players just play, go through the rebuilding, hope you hit on them and then start to sprinkle in a 2nd rounder/FA signing in the meantime when this group starts to take off, but make the core of the team Giannis, 2014 1st and 2015 lottery pick and hope they turn into a "big 3," and that Henson, Knight, Middleton, Wolters, Sanders, Adrien can turn into a couple of nice complimentary pieces. Yes, this is incredibly convoluted and no, I don't think THIS is how things are going to turn out, but this TYPE of blueprint, the highest ceiling guys and no short term fixes with an eye on another 60 loss season next year so they can REALLY turn this franchise around ala, OKC is the only way we're going to get this franchise on track for a championship in the next 5-6 years. If you like Wiggins and hope we get Turner next year, or Oubre, Alexander next year, fine. Just those types of high ceiling guys. But those guys seem to fit what we need and have the requisite high ceilings we need.

I'd make that trade as well, but I'm steering clear of Parker at #3. I'd be going for Exum. A 6'6 PG who can do it all(reportedly). Parker is not great at anything. He's safe. The Bucks don't need safe. They need Giannis like upside. They need a guy who could become one of the top 2-3 players at his position in the NBA. I don't see that being Parker. I think Parker is a mixture of Grant Hill and Big Dog. A very good player no doubt, but he's not a good defender, and he isn't anywhere near as athletic as Exum(who's still just 18 years old). And then at #10 I'd come back and grab Payton if we don't go with Exum, and if we did go with Embiid, I'd come back with Hood or James Young. Two BIG athletic shooters who can play the 2.

I agree. Hot start to 1 season does not come close to meaning he's an ace. I would still take lohse, gallardo, garza, even peralta over him. It's a bit more than ONE hot start to a season. He may not be an "ace," but neither are any of the pitchers you mentioned. And of the four, I find it ironic you say "even," Peralta when Peralta would have the most value of the 4. He's clearly a superior option to Gallardo. Shark averaged 94 MPH on his fastball, he strikes out more than a batter per inning. He's ascending while Gallardo is declining and he's been more valuable than Yo the last 3 seasons. Meanwhile we'd control him for the same period of time, yet he'd be much cheaper. The only pitcher in that group you can argue has out performed Samardzija since the start of 2012 has been Lohse(and that's debatable). He'd be our best pitcher and he's a legit power pitcher who can dominate. He's simply gone from a very good #2 starter to pitching like an ace this year. If in some bizzaro world the Cubs would consider trading him for any of our starters, the only ones I might not trade would be Peralta and Nelson. He's got some of the nastiest stuff in the game. But we don't likely have the pieces the Cubs want anyway. Again, I think you could make a strong argument he'd be better than Lohse as well.

No, you DON'T know that Alonso has a 1.5 WAR minimum(using bbref). You're hoping he does as he's never once surpassed it, even using the more generous ranking. Second, Morris is 25 years old. The idea that the organization has absolutely no intention of promoting him is just ludicrous. It seems as though when the Brewers don't operate on the schedule fans on here want, they come up with these grand and generalized statements of fact. Morris was 24 last year, and while he put up an OPS of .766, he struggled a bit as compared to his big year in AA. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about the course of his entire career based on the fact that he wasn't called up last year. At what point did we start to decide that if a player doesn't make the big league roster by the age of 22 or 23 we start assuming he will never be given a chance and will play for another organization? Third, I don't care about K's nearly as much as you do. Morris is striking out about 20 pct of the time in AAA. Gomez strikes out 25 pct of the time. Braun 18 pct for his career(one of the best hitters in the game). Mark Reynolds who's provided 1.3 WAR thus far has struck out over 32 pct of the time this year. Davis 24 pct of the time...I don't care how they make their outs. Fourth, would I trade Morris for Alonso? Probably. I like taking guys who were highly touted and talented players and giving them another chance. Alonso would fit that bill. I would prefer to see either over Overbay and believe Morris could be an upgrade over Overbay and that Alonso MIGHT be able to figure it out with a chance of scenery. But just for a bit of perspective, Overbay has a higher OPS this year so far than Alonso. And before you argue that is a result of playing in Petco, his OPS away from home is a paltry .552. So to the point I disagreed with without the rest confusing the issue, I fail to see how you can state with any degree of certainty that Morris could not provide the same type of production or better production right now.

He has certainly proven he's one of the best in the game since the start of last year and the year before that, he was just a very good overall player. But don't you have just a little concern in the back of your mind that he's the type of guy who could slump and struggle offensively a great deal? He's locked in right now and even if he was a .280 hitter, he'd be a top 10 player overall most likely, I still have a small fear that he could really drop off offensively with his all or nothing type approach. I think even if that happened, he'd still be a very good player, but not a 6-7-8 WAR player. He seems more prone to a regression than Lucroy for example. Still, outside of Trout or McCutchen, I can't think of a CF'er who'd be more valuable as a FA right now.

I think it makes a big difference in how you get to OPS. I'd much rather take a .280/.350/400 line, particularly in this lineup over a Mark Reynolds type .220/.290/.450 type line. Really? You don't think Morris COULD put up a WAR of 2.3 in roughly 400 games? Of course he could. Alonso hasn't come close to living up to his potential. You would trade for him because you could reasonably expect him to at least perform better than Overbay, play good defense and hit for a decent average, but I don't know how you come to the conclusion that Morris couldn't provide the value over 400 games that Alonso has through his first 400. I really don't care about strikeouts either. Putting the ball in play is overrated. If he puts the ball in play but gets out, who cares? So I like Alonso as a cheap target who I think has upside he has yet to show, but that would be the only reason to target him. If you believe he can do better than he's already done. Otherwise just go with Morris.

There is a good chance that would get it done right now. Especially if the Brewers were to add in some type of signing bonus. 10 million perhaps so he would cost 18 million per year through 2021. That's a lot of money right now, but with salaries rising at the moment... Meh, I don't know. I wouldn't want to make that decision. If he suffers any type of back injury or leg injury, it could be a much bigger deal for him than most players just given how he plays the game and in particular how he swings the bat. I wouldn't bash the Brewers for making this deal, but I'm not sure I'd be completely on board either. He still has over 2.5 years left on his current deal. What does everyone think Gomez would get if he were a free agent this off-season? 7 years 160? If Jacoby Ellsbury got 7/153 I would think Gomez could get at least that.

I'm pretty sure that was from a movie and not something that actually happened. The physics of something like that just don't add up. But it's a helluva story!

This sums up my position nicely. If a team like the Angels or Seattle were to lose a starter, they might target him...Seattle actually could work if they would send Hart back(assuming he came back healthy) and some money to offset the salary. But heading into next season, this is the list of FA's that I think teams would pursue before Estrada; Brett Anderson (27) – $12MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout Josh Beckett (35) Chad Billingsley (30) – $14MM club option with a $3MM buyout A.J. Burnett (38) – mutual option Bruce Chen (38) – $5.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout Wei-Yin Chen (29) – $4.75MM club option with a $372K buyout Kevin Correia (34) Johnny Cueto (29) – $10MM club option with an $800K buyout Jorge De La Rosa (34) Gavin Floyd (32) Yovani Gallardo (29) – $13MM club option with a $600K buyout Jason Hammel (32) Aaron Harang (37) Dan Haren (34) – $10MM player option if 180 innings reached in 2014 Hisashi Iwakuma (34) – $7MM club option with a $1MM buyout Josh Johnson (31) – $4MM club option Kyle Kendrick (30) Hiroki Kuroda (40) Jon Lester (31) Francisco Liriano (31) Paul Maholm (33) Justin Masterson (30) Brandon McCarthy (31) Brandon Morrow (30) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout Jake Peavy (34) Wandy Rodriguez (36) Ervin Santana (32) Max Scherzer (30) James Shields (33) Ryan Vogelsong (37) Edinson Volquez (30) Joe Saunders, Carlos Villanueva, Paul Maholm, Josh Johnson, Roberto Hernandez, J.A Happ, Colby Lewis are guys that could be had for cheap or who teams could plug in for a couple months while waiting for a younger prospect. Someone like Saunders or Villanueva would be far more likely options for a team like the Padres for a 2 million dollar deal than Estrada would for 6 million+ whatever assets it would take to trade for him. I think Estrada's usefulness to the Brewers is just about over. He was a very nice guy to plug in there when we had injuries and he was cheap. But as he turns 32 and we have 3 high priced starters next year(Lohse, Garza and Gallardo) to go with young pitchers like Peralta, Nelson and Fiers, Jungman, Smith, Thornburg who either are currently starting or all capable of starting, and I don't see a future for Estrada here. I see a lot of pitchers who will likely be in that 6-8 million dollar range who have a much stronger background(Dan Haren, Beckett, Hammel) as well as a really impressive class of top tier starting pitchers. Looking at this FA class makes me even more convinced that it'd be logical to move Gallardo right now as opposed to next year when there are so many talented pitchers entering free agency. There are 3-4 20 million dollar a year pitchers on this list and a number of solid #3 types. Gallardo has definitely shown signs he's regressing, but I think with his history, age and relative affordability could net us one good prospect.

Unless Coulter keeps putting up these types of numbers and is ready for the big leagues and ready to mash in the next two years, I hope you're wrong about keeping him behind the plate. I've been on record several times saying that I think he's more than capable physically of playing behind the plate. He's far more athletic than most catchers are, even for his size. The exception would be if they move him to 3rd base right now and he has success there. Short of that, I think his issues behind the plate are entirely fixable and he could develop in to a guy who can really slow down the running game.

You want to read about real tragedies of WWII, read about the Japanese and their invasion/occupation of China. Yeah, this is what I was thinking of when I was talking about how the Japanese were actually worse than the Nazi's in terms of just pure evil. However you want to put it. That's a helluva standard to beat by the way. Worse than the Nazi's. Ishi was worse than Mengle(Arguably). And the Nazi's..as inhuman as they were...what the Japanese did to Chinese Women. It's just sickening.

Wow...I just cannot fathom what it would have been like to storm the beaches of Normandy, to fight on these desolate Islands in the Pacific, to withstand German Artillery in the Ardennes.... My Grandpa won't go to the VA because he never saw action in the War and doesn't feel like a "real veteran." He volunteered when he was 17 years old(tried to use his brothers ID when he was 16 years old) but he never saw live action, so he's not a "real vet," in his opinion. To me, you sign up of your own accord with the possibility of death and you're a better man than I and you deserve to be taken care of. But that aside, I'm just constantly in awe of what that generation did and how they changed the course of the world...and they did so against just HUGE overwhelming odds that people forget about. France had the worlds second strongest army at the time WWII started...and Germany cut through them like nothing. Germany was a power like the world had never seen. And we beat them. And the Japanese might have been even more evil than the Nazi's(just not as successfully evil). Your old man has my respect.

Just goes to show that the silent majority doesn't really care about steroids. While that is certainly true, Braun's deal was more than just PED's. Without rehashing it, I'm surprised fans have forgiven him so quickly for the content and suggestions behind "the denial." Not that I wouldn't vote for him.

I think it's a lot tougher to argue that Prince would have been traded without trading for Marcum, OR that Grienke never becomes a Brewer without Marcum than it is to argue that the Lawrie/Marcum trade was a good one. The Nationals won 68 games in 2010. And we shopped Prince and tried to trade him. It was only after the underwhelming offers we got for him that we went after pitching. So I don't believe Prince would have been traded coming into that season either way. Daniel Hudson was the best "prospect," we were reportedly offered for Prince. Keeping Prince, trading for Greinke and even trading for Marcum are not my issues. Offering Lawrie to ONE team and targeting a guy like Marcum was my problem. And he was good. Not great in 2011 and he was hurt in 2012 and we got nothing for him.