HiAndTight

It's shocking. I was thinking he'd be someone we might consider in the 2nd round. He seems to be a guard in the NFL, not a tackle, but...if it leaves Darrisaw on the board a little longer...

It's shocking. I was thinking he'd be someone we might consider in the 2nd round. He seems to be a guard in the NFL, not a tackle, but...if it leaves Darrisaw on the board a little longer...

Nope. I said they would not have had as good of careers as they had. It is hard to compare players head to head. Yes, their careers overlapped, but situations are different. You said you didn't think Rodgers would have played well in Favre's era. If you said you don't think he'd put up the same type of numbers he has or that he may have gotten more injured, that I'd agree with...but I see no reason he wouldn't have been the best QB of that era as well.

Nope. I said they would not have had as good of careers as they had. It is hard to compare players head to head. Yes, their careers overlapped, but situations are different. You said you didn't think Rodgers would have played well in Favre's era. If you said you don't think he'd put up the same type of numbers he has or that he may have gotten more injured, that I'd agree with...but I see no reason he wouldn't have been the best QB of that era as well.

Well, I don't remember rooting for the big hit personally, but I definitely remember him coming out and throwing a 110 MPH fastball that would get stuck right in Jackie Harris' facemask...(or go just WAY over his head...Josh Allen like). The man was insanely tough for a QB. There's no question about that.

Well, I don't remember rooting for the big hit personally, but I definitely remember him coming out and throwing a 110 MPH fastball that would get stuck right in Jackie Harris' facemask...(or go just WAY over his head...Josh Allen like). The man was insanely tough for a QB. There's no question about that.

It could be I just don’t remember it right but the idea that Favre took a pounding in his career I think is based on him playing through some injuries and of course the saints game. They both played behind some pretty good lines and had seasons where they took a lot of sacks. I think one thing they had in common is being good at moving in the pocket and avoiding awkward hits. Favre also took more hits by playing stupid, not throwing the ball away, etc...but, there were quite a few hits that Favre took that'd get a player ejected from a game now. Favre was pretty incredible at being able to play through some of them. I thought Greg Lolyd had killed him in a pre-season game when he was unblocked and put the crown of his helmet into Favre's chin. So I think Favre genuinely took a lot more abuse while playing(just listen to him now). Some of Rodgers would have been smart enough to avoid though. And at this point, Rodgers would probably look just about washed up(so that would have at least worked out better than pissing off one of the greatest QB's this much).

It could be I just don’t remember it right but the idea that Favre took a pounding in his career I think is based on him playing through some injuries and of course the saints game. They both played behind some pretty good lines and had seasons where they took a lot of sacks. I think one thing they had in common is being good at moving in the pocket and avoiding awkward hits. Favre also took more hits by playing stupid, not throwing the ball away, etc...but, there were quite a few hits that Favre took that'd get a player ejected from a game now. Favre was pretty incredible at being able to play through some of them. I thought Greg Lolyd had killed him in a pre-season game when he was unblocked and put the crown of his helmet into Favre's chin. So I think Favre genuinely took a lot more abuse while playing(just listen to him now). Some of Rodgers would have been smart enough to avoid though. And at this point, Rodgers would probably look just about washed up(so that would have at least worked out better than pissing off one of the greatest QB's this much).

Right...he wouldn't have been able to play through a lot of those hits. But to say you don't think he'd have played well in his era? That just doesn't make any sense at all. The change with QB's becoming more protected came in two phases when Brady got hurt and you couldn't go low on a QB, and then when Rodgers got hurt and they said you couldn't drive through the tackle on a sack. But it's not like Rodgers hasn't been hit or that Joe Montana was some iron man. Rodgers is a better QB than Favre regardless of the era and it's not particularly close. Rodgers career would probably be coming to and end if it hadn't already if he'd played in Favre's era, but I can't see another reason why Rodgers would have less success than Favre at any point.

Right...he wouldn't have been able to play through a lot of those hits. But to say you don't think he'd have played well in his era? That just doesn't make any sense at all. The change with QB's becoming more protected came in two phases when Brady got hurt and you couldn't go low on a QB, and then when Rodgers got hurt and they said you couldn't drive through the tackle on a sack. But it's not like Rodgers hasn't been hit or that Joe Montana was some iron man. Rodgers is a better QB than Favre regardless of the era and it's not particularly close. Rodgers career would probably be coming to and end if it hadn't already if he'd played in Favre's era, but I can't see another reason why Rodgers would have less success than Favre at any point.

They're most of the way there...I certainly hope you're right though.

They're most of the way there...I certainly hope you're right though.

Agreed. Johnson was great, I think the Brewers staff overperformed with him when they had guys like Chacin, Miley, even Anderson was pretty solid. But it's a lot of fun to see them actually developing some power arms and graduating guys from the Minors. We've always had tantalizing prospects, but whatever they're doing now, it seems to be working. If they can manage to get that next wave of arms to the big leagues and they can contribute...even this year, then I'd start feeling even more confident that we could continue to compete over a long period of time like Cleveland or Tampa. And there's no reason to think Small, Ashby, etc...won't be able to thrive for the Brewers.

I agree...but it also feels like if we can get Yelich back and he performs just CLOSE to what he's capable of, a lot of other things will fall into place. I thin Urias is looking a lot better, having very good AB's. Cain coming back will help to stabilize the offense. We've got a lot of pieces that are performing better than I'd expected. I'd written off Taylor, and while I'm sure he'll level out, he looks good. McKinney, Narvaez/Pina... I'd like to see Hiura sent down to AAA for a couple weeks, hope that he can get things figured out as he looks completely lost, but other than that, if Yelly can come back and be a .290/.380/.480 type guy...which is pretty reasonable, the pieces will fall in around him. So to be 13-9 with the middle of your order looking so terrible...that's reason enough to feel good about this offense coming around for me.

I think it was cost cutting...and I don't see what's wrong with that. We traded him in December when we still had no idea what this season would look like. They then signed JBJ over 3 months later when it was a little more clear they'd very likely have fans in the stands for some part of the season. People were getting vaccinated at that point. In most season, I'm pretty confident the Brewers would have kept Knebel. They'd JUST got through a season paying him ~5 million dollars when they knew he was coming back from TJ. If the argument is they were going to dump him either way, then it really makes no sense that they kept him for 2020. Same salary and unlike coming into this year, he hadn't shown his arm was coming back. So I guess when you frame it as "he's the highest non-closer, non-8th inning guy," you have to know that's not a real accurate description of him. He was closing games for the Dodgers. This can be summed up SO simply. He's a great arm, but the Brewers had cheaper and lost a LOT of money last year. That doesn't make Attanasio look like Robert Nutting.

Go back about 3 pages in this thread and you'll see that it absolutely was. In summary, I prefer 'hot take accountability' than 'I told you so', but I guess it's fair to call a spade a spade. When you formulate a conclusion like 'Knebel is back to his dominant old self, how could we just give him away' after 4 innings, it's very likely that's going to look like a bad conclusion at some point. The argument was further laid out as to why in Knebel's case it was even MORE likely that it would end up looking like a bad conclusion. But, and as shown over the past few days, I've also discovered that when people are held accountable for using faulty logic to come to a bad conclusion, they really don't like that. Small samples mean nothing. And, the Brewers have had their thought process proven correct in this case- they didn't have the luxury to have Knebel have a season where, at $5million, he oscillates between dominant, hurt, and ineffective (or some combination of the three). The Dodgers did have that luxury, hence the trade. And now, despite a really great 5 initial IP (followed by a couple not so great IP, but we won't go into that), they're paying him to sit on the IL well into the summer based on the current reports. Right, I did, and I don't agree. It was more about Knebel's velocity coming back than it was about him not allowing a run over a few innings. I didn't fault the Brewers for letting Knebel go at the time or now, but the line about people using "faulty logic?" Again, YOU'RE declaring the only reason people thought they made a mistake in letting Knebel go was because of 3.1 IP. That's faulty logic. Knebel WAS back to his old dominant self. He was back in the upper 90's and throwing using that nasty 12-6 to close out games for the Dodgers. It feels just as disingenuous to claim this lat injury was just so predictable as it is to compare keeping Nelson with keeping Knebel or many of the other arguments made.

What year are the bolded numbers referencing? His numbers after they sent him down to the minors.

I wonder how much playing Saturday in Milwaukee and the traveling to Atlanta to play had to do with the end of game flop, especially since Atlanta had a home game Friday than was off Saturday. That's what I thought when I realized they were playing the next day at the end of the Sixers game. That they'd be a little tired. But the way they're losing is starting to become a little bit of a trend. Same way they lost to Dallas, they blew that game vs GSW in a similar way. Memphis was another game they just looked flat in down the stretch. It's a bit concerning. So many games they've blown that could have them in position to win the top seed. But in this game, gotta give ATL credit. They did shot lights out in the 4th.

I'd be shocked if there was any basis for this trade. It just seems too fantastical. A janitor finds a note and that's how the rumor starts?

It is a little strange to me how much different Gutey has operated than Ted. With Ted, this feels like a no-brainer. Wonder if Gutey will become a little less aggressive as time moves on. He was hired by Wolf but learned under TT. So far, he's been much more Wolf than Thompson. https://www.nfl.com/news/seven-round-2021-nfl-mock-draft-round-1-broncos-bears-trade-up-for-qbs Wolf traded back quite often... he was famous of saying he wanted more bites of the apple. But Wolf was more variable than TT (trading up and down, signing FAs, trading low picks for vet players to fill gaps). I think Gute has been far more unpredictable of the three. Wolf would trade back more in the middle rounds. The only early picks he traded, he traded away or he used to trade up(George Teague I believe he moved up to get) but I'm also taking his Favre trade...which seemed insane at the time. He traded a mid 1st for a QB who went in the 2nd the previous season and was a disaster that first year. Not because he threw 2 picks in 5 passes but for other reasons. That trade would be similar to getting the 10th pick in this draft for Jordan Love. Then there's the trades he claimed he tried to make. Trading up for Urlacher, Lewis and others. Trading a 2nd to get Keith Jackson. He was just objectively more aggressive as a GM. Every GM would prefer to have more picks. But he was also less scared of trading mid round picks away. After Levens went down, he traded a 3rd or 4th for a backup RB from New York. Thompson was hesitant to trade a 4th for Moss(then when he finally agreed, the Pats came in and offered a 3rd). I think it's a hard argument to make that Wolf was more predictable than Gutey. That's probably due to recency bias. Meanwhile Ted was outstanding at drafting and developing(not always in the 1st, but really good in the middle rounds). Gutey thus far has definitely unpredictable, but he's also swinging for the fences with each 1st rounder. And to his credit, he's hit one on his first in Jaire. Still a little early to tell about Gary, Savage, and Love, but the needle is pointing up for two of them.

They were in the NFCCG. A healthy Bakh minus a boneheaded DC and they probably win that game. Spend their top two picks on OT and CB and they're as good as any other team in the NFC. Exactly. They were in it and it wasn't like the prior two. Just another good player at either of those position and they likely play in the SB. I'm not even going to talk about the DC. I've spent enough time and energy!

If I had put "something no one expects", I think that would get all votes. I was limited at 15 choices and cut Barmore at #16 because it sounded like he was going by the early 20s. Maybe not, but that was why I dropped him. I just posted a mock with him going 70th I believe. I think that's absolutely nonsense, but it's one of the things some of us should keep in mind in the event we draft someone who's not a big name or expected and we declare the draft a failure on the night of! I actually think if Barmore went back for another year, he'd move up into the top 5-10. He started to dominate toward the end of the year and show off his pass rushing. Unless...as another mock suggested, the draft Najee Harris. In that case, I will call the draft a failure on the night of. Otherwise, definitely expect the unexpected.

Another three years might not be a bad thing if he keeps pitching like a TOR guy... It's hard to find another player in all of baseball it'd make less sense to extend at this point from a teams perspective than Freddy Peralta. I really like Freddy...and he's young, but 5 FULL seasons after this one...that's just about the perfect contract from the teams perspective. Any extension at this point would really be charitable from the Brewers perspective.

That was about as much of a "told ya so," post as you can get. Coming back after Knebel goes on the DL and repeating what you'd previously said? Coming back after he gave up 2 runs wouldn't have been much of a told ya so given his entire argument was you can't look at his results based on 3.1 IP...which I don't think was ever the basis for the complaints we'd basically given Knebel away.

How about his recent Brewer career? So bad at one point in 2018 that he was sent to the minors, injured all of 2019, and horrible in 2020. Who could possibly have envisioned that claiming 'trade lost' after 4.1 innings might prove to be unwise? I choose to remember 2018 Knebel for his lights-out dominance in the postseason: 2 hits allowed in 10 innings. Or the 16 1/3 IP after they gave him a break to re-group(Which is what everyone understood it was at the time) and he came back and struck out 33 while allowing 5H and 3BB. Even in this 2018 in which he struggled SO badly he was sent down, he had an XFIP of 2.40 I also see more people chastising those who claim we lost the trade than those who actually said we lost the trade.