HiAndTight

Erik Neander. Possibly. It would be a tough choice. I'd have known who that was a few years ago...as it stands today I'd have just made the lazy, "get the Rays GM" idea and come to the same but less informed conclusion.

Why would anyone have thought Minnesota would have been bad? They were 57-38 coming into the year under Zimmer. They lost some DB's, but drafted a bunch. I think the idea that everyone knew Minnesota was a bad team is a little bit revisionist now. Most people thought they were the team that would compete with us for the division title. And Atlanta...nobody ever knows what you're getting from them. They basically lost their entire defensive backfield. You don’t just replace that all at once and not miss a beat. Their offensive line is absolute dog turds and haven’t done anything to shore that up. They traded one of their only offensive weapons worth much. They were destined to be lousy to mediocre this year. Looks like they’re choosing the lousy road. They aren’t good and have cap issues. The Packers should curb stomp them for years to come. They lost their Corners, they still had two All Pro Safety's and added an elite edge rusher. Their OL's not very good, but it hasn't been very good since and they've still routinely been a playoff team under Zimmer. I think the idea that it was obvious they'd be 1-4 and a terrible team is a bit revisionist.

He was the top recruit out of that group also, wasn't he? I thought he was a top 40-50 recruit in the country and the top guy in Wisconsin.

Meh...I'm not nearly as interested in a trade for a WR'er at this point. Now that we've seen what we have and how they really aren't as important as they were with McCarthy. I'd be happy to get Stills, but it'd take a few weeks to get him going and these trades just rarely seem to work out. I'd just love to see Equinimious St. Brown on the field this Sunday. It's time for him to actually show something.

Why would anyone have thought Minnesota would have been bad? They were 57-38 coming into the year under Zimmer. They lost some DB's, but drafted a bunch. I think the idea that everyone knew Minnesota was a bad team is a little bit revisionist now. Most people thought they were the team that would compete with us for the division title. And Atlanta...nobody ever knows what you're getting from them.

I think that’s a tiny intangible that probably doesn’t factor a whole lot into the actual decision. I’m pretty confident they’ll extend Bakhtiari, but I’m prepared to move on from Jones, Linsley, and King. Realistically, I think they can only sign one of those ‘Big 4’ free agents. They’ll likely need to cut and re-structure just to keep one. You're probably right, unless two of them are willing to be cap friendly early in the contract. I think it'd be really hard to move on from Bakh or Linsley just because both are performing so well as part of a good o-line. But the Packers have had a lot of success plugging seemingly random guys into the interior o-line without much drop off when it seems like quality guys do leave (Sitton, Lang, etc.). Ideally, I'd like to see the Packers move on from Kirksey/Preston Smith, and use $10m of that cap savings on Bakh and Linsley, then address LB hard in the draft, along with CB. Sounds like Josh Jackson is starting on Sunday, so we should be able to get a better/longer evaluation of him as a potential option there as well. I don't see how it's possible to move on from Bahk. Yosh may yet develop into an NFL tackle, but I don't want to see him starting next year and that's not a position you can screw around with. But we do have options at center. I wonder if Jenkins is still considered a center long term. It'd be more valuable than either guard position. Of course that monster can play any position on the OL. We've developed depth there. I wonder if they would cut Preston after just two years? My guess is that they'd at least be able to get a pick for him...and probably a pretty solid one. But if you're going to be dropping him more in coverage, it doesn't make a ton of sense to be paying him like a elite edge rusher. I'd still like to hold onto him, but...a 27 year old who'd only cost a team acquiring him ~17 million or so the next two seasons. I don't know what that could do there. I'd feel a lot better if Gary continued to impressed and racked up double digit sacks this year. Looking ahead, it'd should be a really good year to have extra picks. There are a lot of unknowns, but there are also inevitably going to be some gems who would have been "late risers" who don't rise because they don't play this year or they didn't play much. And for arguably the best team in the NFC, the Packers have a lot of needs. Obviously there is higher risk, but with the extra picks, worth it.

I don't even know what is cheap for King. I have a good idea what Linsley will get(10+ per year), we know Bahk would get ~20 million or so, Jones is probably getting market value at 5/65. But what does King get? Maybe a transition tag? I don't know, Sullivan is a really nice corner, but I think he's found a niche role as a big slot corner. I like having two guys on the outside who can make plays but I wouldn't be surprised if he got anywhere from 5-6 million a year to 12-13 million a year. Just...zero clue on what the market will be for him.

Both are obviously incredible. I think Urlacher is better suited to play in today's game, but you can't really go wrong. And yet both of them were suffering a mid career dip...both teams went out and used their 1st round picks on DT's and they both went from having their worst years to back to All Pro players. Haloti Ngata and Tommie Harris. I know it's beating a dead horse, but it feels like we could have fixed most of our DL issues had we just re-signed Mike Pennel last year after NE cut him. We brought him in, he worked out and then signed shortly after with KC and turned into a big part of their run last year. I'd love to see Clay back...especially if it means he doesn't go to Seattle who could really use an edge rusher. Perhaps he's waiting like Veldheer did last year so he can play hard for half a season and not put his body through a full season of abuse. Then in the draft, they can pick up Hamsah Nasirldeen from FSU in the 2nd round. A Simmons-esque type player. A 6'4 safety who's likely to move to LB'er at the next level(like Brian Urlacher). But that's kinda getting off topic..just throwing that name out there.

Yeah, Bahk's a no-brainer. I guess it's more about Jones vs Linsley AND King. How good do we think King is? I still really don't know. He's physical and a willing tackler..but he also gets banged up. He's good at playing the ball, but he also gets beat when he's too aggressive. For a team that's likely going to be paying one CB upward of 20 million per year in the not too distant future(assuming the current trajectory)...maybe if he takes 4/36 and 12-ish guaranteed? And Corey Linsley...I think he's definitely gone, but man, he's been SOOO good and so incredibly steady. He's probably the most underrated player on the Packers. But with Patrick and Jenkins both capable of playing Center... I think if anything, Hanson, Stepaniak and of course Runyan, the writing is on the wall there. I hope the Packers show a Saints like commitment to finish up the Rodges era with the most talent they can possibly put together and keep everyone they need. Nobody wants to see that season when you're force to nuke your team to get out of cap hell...but I also dont' want to see 35 years of HOF QB play and just one Ring for each.

Not based on past performance, but obviously if you believe Profar can still get better or play for a full season like he did in this past abbreviated season...then he's certainly worth it. Switch hitter who was equally good from both sides this past year and can play every position aside from catcher. Not arguing we should sign him as I really didn't watch him play much...and even if I had this past year, I don't have a large frame of reference to compare it to his past to see if he actually looks different, but if Stearns believes at 27, he still has upside, it's worth the risk.

Turang=Trea Turner but healthy! Book it. Now...we just need to keep him off the top 100 lists. (Ok, maybe not quite a healthy Trea Turner, but I think he's gonna be really good and a ideal leadoff hitter a few years down the road).

I think it's going to be two years with Love ... betting we see him in 2022. Ride Rodgers for two more years, and deal him when he hopefully is still playing at a high level and has value and marketability. That's after next season... That is hard for me to picture barring an injury. I think it's entirely possible we enter Love's 5th year without having seen him play. It's one thing if you think Rodgers is declining a bit, but if he's playing at an elite level and has total control of the offense...Love would have to be pretty damn special in order to move him. I get the argument that trading Rodgers contract and getting Love while he's cheap...but this could be a situation where I could see Murphy stepping in. There was a sizeable portion of the fan base that was behind Rodgers when he took over because Favre had spent 3 years threatening to retire AND he'd thrown away yet another shot with a terrible, terrible pick in the NFCCG. This fan base would revolt if Rodgers was pushed out while still playing at an MVP level(and this time...I'd join them).

Without Vea, that will be significantly easier to do. They do have elite speed with White and David...so I can see them having a big day pounding the ball. And I'll predict Dillon starts to get carries coming out of the bye. 6-8 anyway. And Brady struggles when he gets pressure up the middle and can't step into his throws. Clark should be a big factor in this game. I don't know if there's a big difference in Tampa and NOLA. The Saints have the more talented secondary, probably as good at LB'er and not as good up front. Both are capable of beating the Packers though.

Thanks for the respectful reply. I've long been unhappy taking an interior DL in the early rounds, every time it happens. Kenny Clark has worked out wonderfully. You can find successes and failures in every instance. I just don't find the overall value in modern-day football to sink tons of money and capital at the position. In the grand scheme of things, when I think, but not look, of Super Bowl Champions over the past decade, I can't picture an ELITE Nose Tackle. I'm sure one exists, it just doesn't pop to mind. When I think of Suh for example, great player, terrible human being, but where did that level of ELITE get the Lions? Yes, football is 53+ men to create success. I'm glad Clark is going to be around for a long time. I don't want to spend a 1st round pick on a interior DL. I just don't. It's just when I look at draft capital in those first few rounds of 2021, I'd rather have Dylan Moses/Tyler Shelvin Rd 1-Rd-2 than I would Quinnen Williams and Jahad Woods? I didn't and still don't consider Blake Martinez to be ELITE. We can do better than Lancaster taking snaps when Clark is injured or needs a breather, sure...but it's my opinion that it doesn't need to come at the expense of a 2021 first round pick. Well...you can just go back one year with Chris Jones. He was the best defender on a Chiefs team and one of the best in the league. He's not a NT, but neither is Williams as he'd a DE and would take over for Lancaster.(and I feel like you're saying NT as a blanket term for interior DL). Two years ago you had Fletcher Cox with the Eagles. So that's 2 of the last 3. The Pats may not have had an elite DL, but they've got BB. Aaron Donald was certainly one of the main reasons the Rams even made it to the SB. So pretty much every team has at least one elite interior DL. But what I really disagree with is even looking at it in those terms. Looking at teams and saying, "not many SB teams have...." can work for just about everything. How about who's the last SB team that had a real Star at MLB'er? KC didn't, SF didn't. But they DID have a dominant DL...SF had Buckner who was no small part of that that DL and Armstead would be a 3-4 DE. I think having a dominant DL is behind QB and OL in terms of importance. And Lancaster isn't just taking snaps because Clark's injured. He's been the starter there this year and last. He was starting last year when the Packers gave up nearly 200 yards before contact to the 49'ers. With regard to Blake Martinez, irrespective of what you believe he is(and I'd tend to agree with you) he's playing like an elite MLB'er. That's what a very good DL can do. If Capers was still running the D, I'd agree, you could get by with less on the DL. With DL who tried to eat up blockers. But Pettine's 3-4 is a bit different. He wants his DL getting after the QB, getting into the backfield. Williams was the 3rd overall pick. IF we could get him for a 1st and a mid round pick, I think that's better value than we're likely to get drafting at the end of the 1st round. And...again, because the Jets guaranteed his whole contract, Williams would be just about the cheapest player on the roster.

How does your heart feel about just tagging him for 10 million next year? Tag him, let Jamal walk and you've got thunder and lightening? I don't really understand how they can even be thinking about signing both Jones AND Bahk to deals anywhere near what both of them have "earned." Then you're almost certainly letting King and Linsley walk...right?

I'd hate to lose a 1st rounder for yet another interior DL. This organization has overspent, imho, of first round draft capital on interior defensive lineman. It is also my opinion that an elite MLB would help this organization more. The 2021 draft class on MLB is much improved over 2020. And the way several mocks (i know, taken with a single grain of salt) have setup seems like a run on this position isn't imminent. Elite SEC talent at the position, like Dylan Moses (Alabama) and Nick Bolton (Missouri) might very well be available at the end of the first round, or perhaps using a middle round pick to move up a few slots as the draft unfolds. In the same instance, if there is an elite MLB, tackle-machine available via trade, I would be willing to spend 1st round draft capital on that, assuming some years of control on the contract. I understand if people don't want to trade a 1st rounder for a DL. But hasn't Blake Martinez shown us that it's obviously not just the MLB'ers in GB? That a MLB'er can only be but so good when you have DL that is as bad as this group is at times, particularly defending the run? Blake Martinez went from a stat stuffing MLB'er who people thought was...at best a decent player to an elite MLB'er even on a 0-5 team. So there are quite a few MLB'ers I'd like to see the Packers draft. The kid from FSU Nasirildeen could end up being a great guy for the Packers to pick up. But the impact anyone we get is going to be marginal until we have someone better than Lancaster taking snaps.

All these guys certainly make sense. If they keep the pick though...and think a guy like Theo Maledon has a big upside, I hope they choose the route the Spurs took rather than that of the Cavs with LeBron. Pick the player who could develop into a star down the road rather than a contributor in the short term.

Yes, there's no doubt that's how things worked out...BUT Alex Smith was bigger, a little faster and thought to have a stronger arm than Rodgers. I don't really know how everyone could have been so wrong on Rodgers arm strength...I know it got stronger with his mechanics changing early in GB, but you're comparing them after looking at how things panned out in their careers. Smith went to a team where he was beat up early, then was "salvaged" as a game manager. Rodgers was able to sit for three years and was put into a pretty good situation with Jennings, Driver, Jordy, Jones, Finley. I'm just playing devils advocate. If Rodgers has to start year one...by year 3 maybe he's been on IR once, struggled for a couple years, McCarthy and Clement are gone, maybe they even draft someone to replace him. And conversely if Smith had been able to sit and then step in to a team that was built with a lot of young talent to throw to... Like I said, I think Rodgers would still have been better, but I don't know that it would have been AS obvious as it is now. How many young QB's have we seen ruined by bad situations. Sam Donald is a perfect example. That dude can spin it...and he looks like a joke in New York. He's been given absolutely no chance to succeed.

The very fact that the other side had Wilson is an argument for making it an 8 point game. Now you're kicking off to Seattle with 2 minutes, 1 TO and you can play aggressive on defense in a wet, rainy game. And I don't know how you score a TD down 8 with 4 minutes left to go in the 3rd quarter and NOT try to tie it up. I'd argue trying a QB draw with Cousins was a terrible decision, but the choice to go for it seemed like a no-brainer. I do at least understand the logic in going for it on 4th and 1, but if they'd have kicked it down 2...that would have been baffling to me. I'd beg to differ. Having the elite QB against me would give me the goal of not having that guy have a chance at all. Giving him the ball down 8 doesn't do much to change that. As the math pointed out they showed, kicking the FG didn't change their odds at all. I wouldn't say the going for 2 that early was braindead or awful, nothing drastic like that. But there's an easy logic that it's too that it's too early, wait and see what happens later. I'd probably lean towards going for the 2 as I'm almost always on that side, but I was saying if you're going to nitpick these things that one was probably moreso since it was so early in the game you could've held off and just took your points. I get that. My first thought when I saw it was if they get it, it's over. Ultimately though if it were up to me what happened would be exactly what I'd have feared. It'd have been different if it would have been at the 40. I'd be all for going for it there. But it was almost a gimme FG. But it doesn't really matter now.

Yeah, I saw them all worked up. Fumbling in back to back weeks will do that. I'm gonna trust Payton on this one. I think the issue is that if you're going to start Hill, you're going to want to change up the offense quite a bit. A lot more read option, bootlegs, simple stuff. He's got a stronger arm and he's a great athlete. But if you're just bringing him in every once in a while to run a play....you're really not giving him much of a chance to excel. It was 2 years ago that he blocked a punt in a playoff game, got WIDE OPEN and Brees just totally missed him on what should have been a 50+ yard TD pass. Then on the next play HE threw a long TD that was called back. But I really have no clue if he can be an NFL starter of if he's just a luxury who can do a little bit of everything. I think if the Saints truly felt that Hill could be a starter, they wouldn't have signed Teddy Bridgewater last year, or Jameis Winston this year. A good coach may be able to design an offense around him, and he probably has a better, more accurate arm than Tim Tebow had, but I doubt he is ever anything more than a gadget guy. Important to note that he is 30 years old, too, and that athleticism that makes him dangerous also has a short shelf life. Yeah, there's that...but then he's also getting 16 million guaranteed next year while they gave Winston 1 year 1.1 million. It's possible they signed Winston because it was just a really good value and Bridgewater because they wanted a reliable backup so they could use Hill on Special Teams and every other roll they use him in. I think he's got a much better arm than Tebow, but he's 30 years old. Honestly...just based on their salary cap, I can't see anyone but Hill starting for them next year. Unless Winston wants to return for next to nothing for a 2nd year.

Well this thread is off to a fun start! Seriously though, TB's defense has been more impressive than their offense...but they also just lost probably their most valuable overall defender in Vita Vea to a broken ankle. JPP despite his best efforts to permanently disable himself is still a pretty damn good edge rusher.

I don't really know...unless he wants out or there's something going on with the team. They are in a rebuild. I'd keep him if I was Miami and had a young QB, but I saw his name, so I threw it out there.

I see the extension he signed last year was 4 years / $40 million. I just can’t see the Packers taking on that much extra salary. Spotrac has it at 4/30.5 That's about as good of a deal as you're going to get on a WR'er with his talent and recent production. But they obviously don't have to pay for the signing bonus, so their "cap hit" wouldn't be as high. They could just take him on for the rest of this year and then as Peavy said deal him. But I'm guessing IF they went to the effort of trading for him, they'd be happy to work out that cap hit. He's 27 years old, 6'3, coming off a 1200 yard season. 4/30(or even 4/40) is a enormous bargain for a guy like him. They could just as easily extend him and cut that cap hit for next year. I still believe the NFLPA and the Owners are going to reach some sort of agreement. I was looking at the Saints and I cannot possibly see how they'd get under 200 million next year, much less 175. Even if they cut or trade guys like Lattimore, Ramcyzk, Sanders, Jenkins, Brees...they're still like 40 over with guys who would cost more to cut than to keep(in terms of their cap). The Packers don't have much cap space as it stands, but at least they've got options and plenty of ways to free up money.

The sad thing about Adams is he actually shows you that he can be a competent player from time to time. He's clearly more talented than Lancaster or Lowry, but most of DL is effort and his is sporadic at best. I'd agree we really only have the one real need.

Yeah, I saw them all worked up. Fumbling in back to back weeks will do that. I'm gonna trust Payton on this one. I think the issue is that if you're going to start Hill, you're going to want to change up the offense quite a bit. A lot more read option, bootlegs, simple stuff. He's got a stronger arm and he's a great athlete. But if you're just bringing him in every once in a while to run a play....you're really not giving him much of a chance to excel. It was 2 years ago that he blocked a punt in a playoff game, got WIDE OPEN and Brees just totally missed him on what should have been a 50+ yard TD pass. Then on the next play HE threw a long TD that was called back. But I really have no clue if he can be an NFL starter of if he's just a luxury who can do a little bit of everything.