HiAndTight

And this is why RISP is a stupid stat.

I'd have kicked the FG, but I have no problem with going for it and if they get it, everyone's talking about how gutsy and aggressive our new coach is compared to McCarthy who would have kicked there. The only absolute is that you don't run right into Joseph, Stephens and the teeth of that defense with Vitale in the I.

Health is going to be so important. I really hope Kevin King is one of those rare guys who gets hurt early and then can stay healthy. Losing Raven Greene was a big loss. Didn't go to today's game, so no idea how he was taken off the field. Was he carted off, helped off...putting any weight on that ankle? Just the way they were acting, the way he was sitting there, I got the feeling that he had a serious injury. That could be a really underrated injury. He was huge in that Bears game. The only really baffling thing on defense today was on that Cook run. Savage played Cook like he was still at Maryland trying to tackle the Rutgers running back. Just an awful attempt, awful angle. You need to cut him off and wait for pursuit..it's already a big play. But wins are wins. Doesn't really matter if it's ugly.

There's just so many reasons why a team should be willing to pay quite a bit for him. The fact that he's so damn cheap...about 10 million out of the 16 million he signed for was a signing bonus, so he only costs 6 million. There's the fact that he can move outside and play corner on an island even though that's not his strength. He's a game changing type of talent. Looking at this team I'd be planning on using my 1st and a lot of draft capital on offense. A tackle is a big priority, a slot receiver. But sometimes players come available at a time when they just shouldn't like Mack did. He's obviously nowhere near that level of impact player, but you rarely see the 11th overall pick traded a year later after a really strong rookie year. Like I said, if the Dolphins really want draft picks, I'd give up this years 1st, next years 3rd and a Josh Jackson for Fitzpatrick and Jerome Baker. You get your stud and you get a really athletic, talented young MLB'er.

Oh...and Dalvin Cook is no joke. If the Vikings had completed that comeback, that would have been his comeback far more than Cousins. Pretty remarkable for a running back. He's their offensive version of King. Just changes their offense when he's out there while King changes our defense.

My biggest problem....the 3rd and short, 4th and short situations. That's when we could have really put our foot on their throats and ended them. And we run right into the teeth of that defense. That's the old defense. You give your back no options there. That's the whole point of the zone stretch. He runs until he sees the hole and he hits it. I really want to know what is going on with Elgton Jenkins. Does he not know the blocking schemes well enough? He was out there for plays and he's doubling Joseph and then getting up to the next level and sealing off Barr....Taylor's getting thrown around by Joseph and I believe Stephens. The gap between the two seems substantial, but Jenkins is only playing sparingly.

I'm impressed as hell with this team. I'm concerned about the Raven Greene injury, but remember the "would you take 1-1," thread? We're 2-0 vs the #1 defenses from the past two years. And again, anyone who thought this offense was going to be clicking at this point was delusional. I'm just thrilled to see Rodgers not short hopping guys or missing the wide open throws.

And if there was any doubt....scroll down....

What makes you pretty sure about that? Pretty sure...particularly because it was him that he was arguing that they've never folded late.

Yeah, it was high...because you have a 6'5 WR'er. And he caught it....that was extremely rare where he falls on the DB's back after catching it about 3-4 yards in bounds and he rides the guy out making it incomplete.

GREAT play call, Rodgers puts it on the money with Barr right in his face. Beautiful.

No? No....it hasn't. Tell me please when it has?

No kidding. And I'm really not getting the Rodgers thing. He looked bad last year and the first game. He's been putting the ball where he needs to this game. EVERYONE should have known it'd take a while for this offense to really get going when you look at this schedule. Great defenses+Young receivers+new offense...that's not a combinations that's going to equate to a 2011 type of regular season. I was hoping the Packers could win 4 games out of their first 9 and then get rolling late vs the easier schedule. They're up on the Vikes and beat the Bears already... I guess it's just the nature of game threads.

I did not think that was a personal foul at first glance, but pretty obvious and sooo stupid watching the replay.

I had the exact opposite reaction. If Rodgers puts either of those on the money they are completions. And where on Earth could he have put the ball for Scantling? Scantling caught the ball and the DB literally rode him about 3 yards out of bounds. With Jones if he leads him anymore, Jones can't get there.

Absolutely. Rodgers reverted back to holding the ball too long in the 2nd half. Again, amazing how you say that after he makes two throws very few QB's are capable of making and the Vikings just make great plays. And how do we know he's holding it too long rather than the Vikings are covering up the receivers? I'm not seeing anything other than Rodgers in the pocket until he throws the ball.

I contend it's been a bunch of good defense. It's been a bit of both...but the two in-completions there were absolutely great defensive plays.

You know, they haven't been great obviously this second half. Some of it might have to do with the Vikings, but fine. But you literally posted that after Rodgers threw a pass that Scantling went up and made a great catch on and the Vikes DB just rode him out and then Rodgers lays one out to the back on a wheel and Harrison Smith...one of the best safeties in the NFL just gets his finger tips in there. So....kinda a ridiculous time to make that statement.

Vikings D is just making everything difficult right now...they need a couple 1sts or a gassed D is just right back out there. And that's two straight plays where Rodgers puts the ball exactly where he needed to...and the Vikings DB's just make great plays.

Wow....the Packers were just walking down to the chair and got a reprieve. And this better not be overturned. He went to the ground with the ball, had it cradled. You cannot overturn this.

Kevin KING finally showing up!

Just got caught up on most of the Packers message boards. It doesn't seem like all the busy boards are all that high on Fitzpatrick beyond the usual speculation. I've seen people saying a 4th rounder plus Lane Taylor, some who don't want to give up a draft pick for"another safety." Very few of the posters seemed very bullish on him. I've seen many who think "Greene has been pretty good, I'd rather give him a chance than give up a pick for a former 1st round bust." Those seem like the majority of the opinions....obviously there are some like you who are totally in favor, but it seems like most of them kinda went like this thread...with one guy basically repeating every other post that he's not just a safety! Found this a bit funny. https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2019/9/13/20864111/packers-would-be-wise-to-call-dolphins-about-possible-minkah-fitzpatrick-trade Anyway, the Dolphins beat reporter is still saying as of Friday they would likely want MULTIPLE early picks, including a 1st or a young valuable young player+another high pick. And it's hard to really blame them. They have to think after getting two 1sts for Tunsil, he's gotta be worth close to that. If I had to make my "best offer," it'd be something along the lines of a 1st(2020), 3rd(2021) and Josh Jackson(or maybe another 4th) for Fitzpatrick and Jerome Baker. I'd think that'd make the Dolphins think. We get a 3 down LB'er who can pair with and then replace Martinez this off-season plus we get a potential All Pro multi-positional defensive back. Throwing Baker into the discussion probably makes this too complicated, but if you're going to get rid of everyone, you might as well trade the talented young LB'er. Otherwise Raekwon McMilan, a guy who figures to see less playing time this year would eb a very fine alternative. Good organizations jump on bad organizations decisions. Christ, the Raiders and that moron Gruden made the Bears relevant for the next 5-6 years because they decided to trade a generational talent and then Gruden complained about how they didn't have a pass rush last year. This is hardly the same, but it's the same concept. Making Fitzpatrick available, even for a 1st rounder is a mistake by the Dolphins. What it'll actually cost is obviously up in the air, but why the hell are they wasting him on trying to make him a Nickel LB'er?. I did see one reporter say that the Dolphins may come off their demand for a 1st round pick, but most still seem to believe they want young linemen or at least talented young players and a couple of early picks. But, in this fantastical scenario, lets assume they make the trade. This is what our D would look like over the next few years. Almost every player entering or in their primes. Our defense could be set up for the next 2-3 years with this move by in large. CBs- Alexander/Fitzpatrick/King/Brown/Sullivan(Tramon may even still be around in 3 years) S- Savage/Amos/Greene(Fitzpatrick can obviously play here). MLB-Baker/Burks/Summers/Bolton...who the hell knows what's up with him. Baker is 6'2 4.5 40, athletic, probably all around an upgrade in a year over Martinez. OLB'er-Z Smith, P Smith, Gary, Fackerall DL-Clark/Lowry/Adams/Keke/Lancaster/Brown/ Out of that group, I believe only 4 players would be FA's in the next 2 years, Clark, King and Adams and Fackrell. I'm sure I'm missing someone one or two guys. But we'd be set for the most part. Of course I have almost no confidence this will actually happen as the Dolphins will lose easily with Fitzpatrick and he's the type of guy you build around(along with Howard who they extended last year) so I doubt he gets traded and if he does, I doubt we do it. But....t'd be pretty cool if it did!

I wasn't a huge fan of him last year because there was so many varying opinions on his position. But after a year in the league, he's answered any questions I have. I'd guess he ends up in Philly if he is actually traded personally, but Gute's been aggressive, so could be wrong. There's also the fact that he'd be incredibly cheap for the Packers financially. He'd cost less than 6 million over the next 4 years. I just don't understand why the Dolphins would consider trading him, but I also don't get using him as a Nickel LB'er.

Yeah, I just made a post about it on another thread. I know people want to throw around 1st rounders every year, but in this case, I'd definitely give up a 1st. He played a couple of games last year when Xavier Howard went down with an injury on the outside. One of the games was vs Green Bay. He was targeted 3 times, 1 completion and 0 yards I believe and his grades in the games he played outside were outstanding. His PFF grades as a whole were outstanding, but that he's capable of playing outside just makes him that much more valuable. I've suggested a 1st+Josh Jackson or maybe a 1st and a conditional pick, or a 1st and a 4th in 2021? That's a ton to give up..and as I said in the other thread, that may not even get it done since the Dolphins got 2 firsts for Tunsil. Plus because Fitzpatrick was picked JUST outside of the top 10, his 5th-year option is significantly cheaper than if he'd have been just one spot higher. I think top 10 picks 5th-year option is the average of the top 5 salaries, the 11-32 picks are an average of the 3-25th overall salaries. The only really pressing needs we know of right now is tackle...replace Bulaga, ideally next year so we aren't forced to pay an older Bulaga 13 million next year. MLB'er is also a priority as I don't think we sign someone Martinez for the type of deal he's going to want. At most he should get a contract similar to what AJ Hawk got back in 2008 or whenever it was that he signed that deal for ~5/35. Maybe 5/40, but I think he'll want and get more money than that because tackles is such an overrated stat and teams will pay him as an elite backer. But whatever, all of this is beside the point. If you can pick up a young, impact talent, do it and figure out the rest later.

In case anyone missed it, I think I was laying it on pretty thick by calling the suggestion of trading for Fitzpatrick as my "gem." That said, I don't spend much time on the other forums except for this one during the week. I actually thought it was a bit of an out of the box type of idea to try and trade for a guy who's labeled more of a safety than he is a corner. I mean, of course everyone throws out ideas about whoever is asking for a trade at a given time, if they're a high profile player, there's going to be a lot of discussion about that player. Antonio Brown, Clowney, Earl Thomas...but with a guy on the worst team in the league who came in without a position? I really didn't think that'd be that popular of an idea beyond the trade for everyone," group. But since it's been discussed, what's your opinion? Obviously if you're got a player from last year who had a very strong rookie year, even thrived playing outside at CB, but profiles best as a Charles Woodson later Packer years type player when he was in GB, blitzing off the slot, playing a lot of press man and who is physical enough to play the run, but not the type of safety the Dolphins are trying to turn him into, a in the box Nickel LB'er. I think the Dolphins are looking ahead at 2021 moreso than 2020 to try and really start building that team-up. That should be the year that Lawrence is the top pick, there's no reason to think that the Fins won't be the worst team in the NFL the last two years. So you're looking at a 1st+. The only young guys I see that would fit in with the Dolphins time line and agenda would be Josh Jackson, Scantlin and St. Brown. Jackson has a little value left as a 2nd rounder from just last year, Scantling I'd think has quite a bit given his talent and ascension to one of the Packers starters and St. Brown is on IR...but he's a helluva talent. 6'5, elite speed, athleticism. I'd put Jackson's trade value at about a 4th/5th maybe, St. Brown as a 5th or later and Scantling as a 3/4. So if the Packers offer a 2020 1st and Josh Jackson who says no? The Dolphins or the Packers? My guess is Dolphins. Man that'd be a potentially dominant secondary. I know it's a huge if, but if King could stay healthy, this could be a really good secondary this year. If they could add a dynamic, roaming playmaker, that could help catapult the Packers D into the Bears/Vikings category...as unlikely as it may be.