Warning Track Power

Amen. Even though ZG hasn't pitched anywhere near an ace, his struggles may end up helping us in the long run. Assuming he'd be interested in an extension now, the Brewers may be able to get him for something less than we thought. Maybe a 4 year $68MM extension ($17MM/season) instead of the $20MM/year I thought it would take all along. Here's the other thing, we're in 1st without our best pitcher (arguably) being close to what he has been before. That is promising.

I understand the love for Taylor Green but I think that it is more likely that Melvin would look around for a trade before bringing an inexperienced rookie to play 3B on a 1st place team. With Yuni B already being a black hole, it would seem a very risky proposition to roll the dice with someone who has zero MLB at bats, while keeping in mind Green isn't a Posey or Heyward type. Ian Stewart or someone of that ilk being acquired in a trade has more of a chance to be the Brewers 3B for the rest of the season than Taylor Green in my opinion. Maybe if this were 2010 and we were semi out of it already, but not when we're in 1st. Having said all that, what's the feel for Green's defense? I see his offensive statistics but am curious about his abilities as a defender. Is he average, serviceable, gold glove? Little help...

Nice Mat! Hope you brought your 3B glove!

Stolen base with a 7-0 lead? That's not very classy. Where's Mike Quade LaRussa when you need him?

I know this seems counterintuitive as he has struck out a ton of guys this season, but sometimes it seems like Greinke doesn't have a consistent out pitch. Either that or guys seem to foul away pitch after pitch with 2 strikes until he finally strikes them out. Thoughts?

This is the big one in this series. If we can get this one tonight, we have a real good shot at 2 of 3. I honestly like our lineup better offensively and we have the starting pitching advantage in 2 of the 3 games. Hoping we don't go in intimidated, but I am very optimistic about this series.

I generally like Melvin and his front office, especially their go for it mentality, be it CC or Greinke or Marcum trades. Speaking solely on the likelihood of JJ coming back to Milwaukee though, I just don't see it, as happy as it would make me. JJ's demotion has to be ranked up there with one of the biggest screw jobs in Brewers history. I know baseball is a business so I don't need a lecture from someone on that but I am still a little disappointed in the handling of JJ by the Brewers front office. Especially given their willingness to stick with a Yuniesky Betancourt at least from December 2010 until July 2011. If I were JJ and the Orioles front office told me they had a trade worked out with Milwaukee and asked about my willingness to return there, I would ask permisssion to allow me to talk to the Brewers and gauge their interest in a long term extension (3 years +) with a no trade clause. Additionally, I would want clarity from Melvin as to the circumstances surrounding what happened in 2009. Maybe at that point in time I would feel comfortable with coming back to Milwaukee. But I would certainly want the guarantees afforded by a long term deal with a no trade clause before I thought about committing to a place that I felt wronged me in 2009. This would be due diligence from the Brewers side as well given the likely cost it would take to get JJ back into a Brewer uniform. The last thing I want as a Brewer fan is a JJ trade that includes a Thornburg and then watch JJ leave as a FA after 2011. From a players and fans standpoint though, I imagine JJ would relish coming back to play with Weeks, Braun, Hart and Fielder (for 2011) and playing for the fans in Milwaukee who (mostly) desperately want to see him back in a Brewer uniform.

Great question...I'd probably go with Marcum, which is amazing. True bulldog pitcher. Gallardo scares me in a Game 7 for some reason. I think is solely based off of Yo's struggles in Boston last week and that a Game 7 would likely be against a Boston or Philadelphia type team. Greinke has been great but his inability to hold early leads (even though they have won most of those games) would worry me in a Game 7 type game. Any of the three would be fine to be honest. But on June 28, I pick Marcum.

With McGehee still struggling, I hope Melvin is at least kicking the tires on Stewart. He's in a little skid at Triple AAA right now and apparently needs an "attitude adjustment" but he's someone I would love to see acquired in a minor deal to provide at least a platoon partner for McGehee. In fact, maybe a straight up swap of the two in a change of scenery type of deal. Not sure I can get behind this yet as it just popped into my head, but I would have to give it serious thought. Adding another left handed bat would be an added benefit.

I need to see more of these two but I can be convinced that is worth more than Hart as well. To me, trading Hart is totally dependent on the outcome of Greinke and Marcum negotiations. As End said, the Brewers don't necessarily need to create salary room in 2012 as Prince will be gone and Greinke and Marcum will still be under their current contracts. If only one of Greinke and Marcum are re-signed, I definitely could see Hart being traded for pitching. However, if both are re-signed I think a Hart deal will be for something other than SP because at that point we will have Greinke, Marcum, Gallardo and Narveson (pre-arby?) under long term contracts.

This is something I completely agree with. The overarching issue I have with it is that I don't believe a Corey deal would bring anything more than a #3 cost controlled pitching. I would expect a return at most of a Clayton Richard type pitcher, who is a decent pitcher with potential but is nothing more than a #4 on our staff now, and probably tops out as a low end #2. With Gallardo and hopefully a re-signed Greinke and Marcum, I'd be a lot more comfortable with Hart in RF than a Richard-type at #4. Now without a re-signed Greinke and Marcum, a Hart-Richard type trade would probably be worth investigating even though I believe Hart is worth more than Richard.

I agree totally. Furcal will be traded barring the Dodgers catching fire and re-joining the race. It just makes too much sense for a team not going anywhere, a team with the financial problems they have and a team with their future SS already on the roster in Dee Gordon. Although the rumblings from out here in L.A. have the Dodgers moving Furcal to 2B so him and Gordon can play the IF together, that is totally posturing. Saving money is Dodgers Priority 1 especially with the list of players and the amount of deferred compensation coming out today as well. I'd prefer JJ but not at the price of a Thornburg like I think it will take. I expect Furcal will cost a Farris though. Assuming all things remain relatively close to the same, I expect Furcal to be a Brewer before season's end. The question I have then is how to slot the batting order. I drool over Furcal in the leadoff spot and Hart and McGehee flip-flopped in the lineup, but expect this: 2B Weeks SS Furcal LF Braun 1B Prince 3B McGehee RF Hart C Lucroy CF Morgan/Gomez

Maybe I am being a little shortsighted but I have no motivation to move Corey Hart at all. I understand we have OF in the Minors that could/should be able to fill Corey's shoes on this team, but the idea of moving him to fill another hole (by the way which hole are we thinking he will fill? Not like a bunch of teams are willing to trade .300 hitting, gold glove D SS) is not something I would be motivated to do now. To me it reeks of the Hardy trade for Gomez, where we trade a relatively proven guy for a prospect or relatively unproven guy. Granted it wouldn't be identical (Hart isn't at the low point of his worth) but it defintely feels similar to me. I'd rather roll with Hart, trade for Furcal, plug Gamel into first and extend Greinke and Marcum. A positional player core of Braun, Weeks, Hart, Lucroy and pitching core of Gallardo, Greinke, Marcum, Narveson, Axford is a pretty nice start to a 85+ win team. Depending on how the rest of the roster is constructed, I could imagine this teams playoff window being open for another 3-4 years with that core.

Ok guys...you are all making me feel better about Kranitz and the pitching staff overall. I guess 3 double digit run games last week plus 2 ugly games against the Rays have narrowed my view. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Well maybe my opinion of Narveson is different than everyone else's but I have always felt that Narveson has always had the potential to be an above average pitcher. To me, his inability to get over that mental hurdle of the big inning this season, while not entirely the fault of Kranitz, can be blamed partly on coaching. Just my opinion.

With all the RR hate on this board, I think its about time to divert some of that towards Rick Kranitz and is inability to get the most out of some of the pitchers on this team. While the Brewers are in first place as I type this, let's not fool ourselves into believeing the pitching on this team has been anywhere close to what some of the statistics say we are. Running down the pitchers on this team with the most appearances, I feel its appropriate to put the pitchers in the following categories: Exceeding expectations: Marcum, Wolf, Axford, Hawkins Pitching to expectations: Mitre, Estrada Not pitching to expectations: Greinke, Gallardo, Narveson, Loe, Stetter, Dillard, Braddock I don't feel I am being biased in making my point about the pitching staff. This staff as a whole has massively underperformed in my opinion. Maybe some of Gallardo or Greinke's inconsistencies this season have been masked by Wolf's excellent overall performance to date but that doesn't change the fact that the Brewers pitching as a whole has to be looked at as underachieving. Now whether or not that is the fault of RR and his definition of roles (i.e. Loe in the 8th or Loe against LH) or Kranitz is open to debate. I can blame RR for Loe. However, I feel a good portion of the blame should fall on Kranitz due to 60% of the starters, which has no bearing on RR's decision making, underperforming.

Ahh...A topic I am very happy to discuss. This yellow, the Cerveceros yellow or the yellow that outlines the "M" logo behind homeplate (my preferred choice) SHOULD be used as the 2nd color rather than the shimmery gold that adorns the current uniform. Additionally, as much as I thought didn't like the current font for the name and number, I actually love it without the white outline like on the back of Sosa's jersey. Looks much better than ti currently does. While I am on the topic, they need to darken the navy on the hats to a true dark navy (think Twins or Braves). Look at the batting helmets compared to the hats. They don't match. Also, fix the weird scripting of Brewers. Some "B's" in Brewers start at right side of the stomach with the "S" ending at the left shoulder whereas some of them start at the chest and go straight across. A couple tweaks and I will be happy with the uni. By the way, the current M with barley is really an awesome logo. It's a classic. Even though I advocate for the return of the ball and glove logo, I never want the current logo to go away.

The only way I think this trade is a historically one sided deal for the Royals is if: 1.THIS is the ZG we see for the rest of his career. OR 2. ZG pitches to his potential, then leaves after next season and we don't make the playoffs in 2011 or 2012. Even then, this trade is one that always has to be made. With Jeffress and Cain, the Brewers arguably had coverage at those postions for the forseeable future with Axford, Komatsu and Schafer. So I don't regret moving those guys. Escobar, eh...I've never been a big fan. I was in the don't trade JJ crowd and so far, Escobar is YuBet with a better glove. Odorizzi will hurt. He is a legit prospect that is a potential all star. But he is the only one worth fretting over in my opinion. And with Prince, Rickie, Hart and Braun in their prime, the Brewers had to put present Greinke in the rotation and risk that Odorizzi turns into future Greinke.

Angels Growing up about 45 minutes from the Big A gave me quite an affinity for the team who always played in a big market but despite that, always felt more like the Brewers than the Dodgers, Yankees or Red Sox. Additionally, their owner is awesome enough to #1. Not raise beer prices #2. Party with a fan & #3. Say no dealing with Boras (though I bet he's going to change his tune with Prince). Assuming Prince leaves, I am hoping he comes here so I can still root for him instead of going to the Cubs where I will loathe him. Like LS said though, I fancy the NL and its style far more than the AL. Maybe the Angels would be #2 if they played in the NL but because they are an AL team, I would have to put the Dodgers as the second favorite to the Brewers.

Whoever wrote in the comments that Kottaras is probably worth more to the Brewers as a backup C then anything SF would offer in return is right on.

Agreed. Any power hitting RH hitter like Cantu should be investigated. Especially given the fact that he can play 3B if McGehee falls back in a slump, as well as play 1B in the event Fielder needs a day or inning here or there. If we somehow managed to pick up a Cantu and trade for a Furcal/Hardy and bench or DFA YuBet, our bench begins to look more and more like a strength than the current weakness. Having a bench consisting of the following looks pretty solid to me: IF: Cantu, Counsell/YuBet C: Kottaras OF: Gomez, Kotsay

Everyday it looks like JJ is more of a pipe dream...If I were the O's, I would be asking for the moon based on the fact that he is likely going to be the most sought after SS if the Mets keep Reyes. Even if the Mets trade Reyes, he has seperated himself and is clearly the #2 SS target. If I were the O's, I'd probably start targeting whomever they believe to be our top SP propsect is (Thornburg, Rogers, etc...) and Farris to eventually replace Brian Roberts, who is 34. If I were them, I would start with the Reds and see if they would make Yonder Alonso, Travis Wood or Homer Bailey available first.

I think this is unnecessary if the premise is solely re-signing Greinke. If we can offer Fielder 5years/$100MM, we most certainly would be able to offer ZG the same. If he is looking for more than that well we can say goodbye to him as well. As a side, I think trading Hart and losing Fielder in the same year would likely cause an exodus from Milwaukee despite the SS the Brewers would receive in return. We gain an experienced SS in return (say Stephen Drew as an example) and then turn around to start Gamel at 1B and Gindl/Katin in RF. A lineup with Drew-Gamel-Gindl/Katin looks significantly worse to me than say Hardy/Furcal/Keppinger-Gamel-Hart.

I don't think he was mentioning Y. Escobar specifically, but a talent like him in general. I am warming to the idea of Furcal in Milwaukee because his injuries have likely lessened his trade value and he might be had for a relative song at this point in time. I know he is injury prone but if he were willing to sign a 2 year $15-20MM extension in Milwaukee, he may worth looking at as a fix for the next few seasons.

I hate saying someone deserves to get hurt playing a game like baseball, but the hypocritical nature of that team in general, especially in regard to Pujols, makes it appropriate. The holier than though attitude reminds me so much of those people you know who are Saturday Sinners and Sunday Saints yet still tell you how to live a good (pick your religion) life.