Thurston Fluff

I would say the 700 mark it average offense on some years and some years it is slightly above average for second baseman. But I don't think it tells the whole story to begin with. I think some types of players have more value to a team than others. A lot depends on who is surrounding him. If the team has a lot of power but not much OBP I think an singles hitter has more value than a power hitter who strikes out a lot. You put him ahead of the power guys and get two runs instead of one more often. I think Aoki was a great example of that last season. He played a traditional power position but being on a team that had plenty of it his ability to make contact and get on base was a nice addition. As far as wins above replacement to predict someone's future/ability is a text book definition of misusing the stat. That would be if the whole idea of estimating the overall value, both offensively and defensively, in one number wasn't so terribly inaccurate to begin with.

Check out the first post in this thread for an example. There's a vocal segment of the board that is saying "nanny nanny boo boo" to people who don't expect this level of power to continue. True. Since it was addressing a quote from me I figured it was directed at me. But I should have said - I never said he could have hit for power. Ganter was a below average player for the vast majority of his career. And that was during the low offense of the 1980s and with exceptional glove work. 16 of the current 2nd baseman who qualify have an OPS above 700. That is the same number as last season. There were 13 in 2011, 13 in 2010...you get the picture. I think you are overestimating the average offensive talent level of second basemen.

He didn't slug over .400 in AA or AAA. I am simply shocked by his production and being a realist. The odds of him posting a .700 OPS in MLB for a full season is slim. Again, for all the hatred Weeks got here all year, his .703 OPS over the last two seasons is higher than what Scooter posted in AAA this year. Who ever said he could hit for power? More to the point who said every player has to hit for power to be a productive member of a good team? Jim Ganter had a career 670 OPS. Wasn't he a productive member of some pretty good teams?

I don't think it's that people are 'down' on him, I think it's that that people are only saying that he's a very limited player (2nd base only) with a few holes in his skillset (little power, and low OBP if he doesn't hit for high average). I think anytime someone uses Yuni for a comparison one can assume they are down on him.

He's been a consistently good contact hitter throughout his minor league career. That will give him a longer leash than a month of good hitting here. I don't know why people are so down on him. He might not have a lot of power but for a second baseman he provides enough offense to be productive.

Melvin has always looked to get a young arm back in any deal, so my guess is it's more than likely a pitcher. Can Nick Delmonico pitch?

Another couple that are a lot like Top Secret are Kentucky Fried Theater and Young Doctors In Love. Kentucky Fried Theater was originally the name David and Jerry Zucker and Jim Abrahams gave themselves for their theater group while at UW. They are all Wisconsin through and through. Young Doctors In Love was not from them but along the same line of silliness. Maybe a little more like a National Lampoon spoof than the Zucker/Abrahams stuff.

Why were the trades far an few between at the deadline? Maybe for a few reasons, I bet the whole Biogenesis thing had an effect. You might want to think about that bet for a second. For it to have had any effect on this season's trades to date first you have to think a team would have to want a player Doug wanted to trade. Then you have to think that team didn't do so because he felt Doug should have given him a deal because of the Braun thing. Do you really think that is how it played out? They either want a player to help their playoff chances or not. Unless you can show me how Braun's suspension effects another team's desire to get to the playoffs I don't get the connection. Playing in a home stadium where the face of the franchise is getting boo'd at home, and worse on the road. And the ones who are on the roster, their performance won't be affected one bit? Braun isn't going to get booed at home all season. He'll get his for a few games but this isn't the one story that will last forever. Even if it did if a player can't perform when someone else on their team is getting booed I think finding that out now so we can weed that out is a good thing. They just don't have the mental fortitude needed to help. As far as the face of the franchise thing goes I'm not even sure what that means. For me the face, or faces, of the franchise are those who the fans identify with. I think Gomez, Segura and Lucroy have all surpassed Braun as face of the franchise. As for Braun's no trade clause, why is that an issue? I would think he would jump at the chance to start fresh elsewhere, especially if it's clear that's what MArk A., fans, media, etc. wants. Of course you're not going to get "fair" value. But I would jump at "damaged goods" value right now. Where can he go to get a fresh start? This isn't a local issue. He is a pariah in all of baseball. There is no fresh start. He has to work through this. I think it would be much easier to do it around people who know you for more than just being a cheating, lying, scum bag. That would be here. I doubt Mark A wants him to go if he can't get commensurate value for him. That would be a fiscally bad idea. Which leads me to your third point. Getting damaged goods value for him now is the very definition of selling low. The brewers won't, and shouldn't, do that. This whole thing is bad enough as it is. Why compound the problem by giving away players and/or money and cripple the franchise for years to come from a knee jerk reaction? That is a flat out stupid business decision. Some of you guys have no idea how bad this is going to be. Or you are overreacting. One or the other.

Wait, how does this effect wins and losses next year? At this point that is all I care about. I'm glad there is some hint of the discussion of where to go from here. Several ways. First, how excited do you think Free Agents are to sign with the Brewers and the Brain sideshow? I don't think it will effect FA's at all. There have plenty of player suspensions of PED use. Which team can you name that it has the slightest bit of effect on free agents? They come or not by how well a fit it is. Things like chances of being on a contender, playing time' money and years are all way more important. I doubt it is of any significance at all. Braun will have effect on trades also. Very well he may already HAVE had an effect on trades at the deadline this year. Why? In business, you smell weakness. If you know there's turmoil going on in Milwaukee, you may not offer as much in return. That's what happens when you negotiate ina position of weakness. I think this is about as far fetched as it could possibly be. What weakness? Turmoil in what sense? In order for this to make any sense the team would have to have a player they cannot keep. What possible player on our team is a must sell not matter what cost? Finally, I think attendance will suffer. Some of you don't realize how upset a whole lot of Brewer fans are. Whther they should be this upset or not is irrelevant. They are, and that will translate to lower ticket sales. Especuilly coming off a losing season. Less revenue = less money to spend on the roster. Maybe but I think it will have little to do with it unless the team sucks. Not to mention the intangibles of 24 other players having to deal with this circus all year. I won't be all year. They take a few questions early about it they give some stock answers and the story line moves to something that hasn't been beaten to death for more than a year by then. Thanks FVBrewerFan for making my case on why Braun will be traded regardless that they can't get equal talent back. He has a no trade clause. I seriously doubt he is waving it. Even if he did no team is going to give up anything unless they know he is going to produce. Not unless the Brewers picked up a huge part of his salary. Since they cannot afford to do that this is just a dead end.

Keeping quiet will not do any good because he was so loud about is 'innocence'. Quiet will equal arrogantly satisfied with his actions and motivations, and merely sorry he got caught. It doesn't matter what he says or doesn't say. We already know he's all those things. Speaking won't help and could hurt. If he sounds as insincere as we think he is it will be worse. Time is the only thing that will make it go away. When his contract is up and his career is over then, if he feels the need to apologize, ala Mark McGuire, go ahead. Speaking from his point of view I just don't see the benefit of doing it any time soon.

I don't think it matters what he says or does. Even if he does come clean nobody would know for sure if he was coming all the way clean. Even if people believe he is it still seems self serving to do so only after he got caught. There is also the chance he Paula Deen's it and does more harm than good. If he sounds like he's rationalizing or downplaying it he could end up looking worse. Really there is little he can do now to repair his reputation so why try? It won't help and may hurt. All he can do is keep quiet, play and hope it goes away sometime down the road.

"A Shot In the Dark" was a Pink Panther movie that sometimes gets forgotten because it didn't have Pink Panther in the title. It was also the only one that didn't have the Pink Panther theme song. Another lost Peter Sellers gem is "The Mouse That Roared" I think Martin Mull's "Serial" is pretty funny.

Kirk Gibson ripped Braun a new one but seems to forget who he hired. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/kirk-gibson-rips-ryan-braun-forgetful-matt-williams-195112568.html I think what Braun did was wrong. How he handled it even worse. But I think it's time some of these guys get off their high horse. Gibson played until the mid 90's. He knew there was performance enhancing drugs being used. None of the players said squat about it then. That silence was part of why it got so big. Then to feign indignity that he lost a playoff game due to Braun's cheating while having a cheater on his staff seems the height of hypocrisy. At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Braun, which I'm not trying to do, does anyone else feel whoever leaked the initial news of his positive test is partially responsible for how this thing blew up? Granted it does not excuse Braun for making some very poor choices. Especially how he approached his appeal after it broke. I just sometimes I wonder if it had not been for a leak of a supposedly confidential appeals process if would Braun have gone down the road of attacking the collector. It appears the bad stuff like the hits on the sample collector's character came after the news broke. Before that it was simply an appeal based on poor collecting protocol. Which, given the outcome of the appeal, was suspect and should have been changed. If it was all kept in house there would have been no reason for him to defend his reputation by smearing someone else's. Nobody would have known. That does not in any way imply that I think Braun was justified in doing it. He knew the dude was innocent and did it anyway. But I think whoever violated the confidentiality of the testing system has to take some blame for letting the story get out of hand. If everyone would have respected the confidentiality process the chain of events that lead to a sample taker getting his name dragged through the mud would have been broken.

I had to buy a couple things today that required going to two separate stores. The first place I went to the bill was $36.02. I didn't have the change so I had to use a dollar bill and get 98 cents back. The next place I went cost me $5.99.

I don't get this at all. Every starter we have is going to be back next season. All 11 of them. Why would they be relying on anyone other than those same guys with one more year of experience under their belt?

What? You're talking about using a position player when you're losing by a ton, so mop up duty. So you're saying pitching Donovan Hand in mop up duty can show he is capable of more than just mop up duty? Read every word in the sentence. A guy LIKE Donovan Hand. He was a guy who started out on this team as a long man/mop up guy.

I agree there are times to use a position player if the pen is overused. I just disagree using it as a standard strategy anytime the team is down 6 runs. I think it is shortsighted not to use those innings in a way that helps pitchers become better pitchers and/or as a way for a manager to see what they have now without costing the team games. Not to pour cold water on your idea jerichoholicninja. I like that sort of out of the box thinking. Especially since it appears you put some thought into it. I just disagree with this one.

Other than Jose Conseco name a position player that got hurt pitching. The injury argument here doesn't matter either because you are not going to use anyone of real value to your team. You're going to use your 25th man. Considering how few times there have been position players pitch it's a bit of an unfair question. The reason I think pitchers should pitch is because it gives pitchers a chance to show what they can do. Why have a position player pitch when a guy like Donovan Hand can show he is capable of doing more than just mop up? Or it give a guy like John Axford a chance to get himself right for a more prominent role. Using blowouts to see what a player who gets very few opportunities to play can do at least provides some benefit.

Day two without power and it is expected to be at least another day or two before we have it again. I feel so Gilligan's Islandish.

And yet K-Rod, who was downright bad in 2012 (both mechanically & in terms of stats), pitched just under 25 innings in for the Brewers this season, & returned a solid prospect from Baltimore. K-Rod has given up 4 HR in 5 IP so far with the O's. Teams do strange & desperate things for bullpen arms sometimes. Yes team sometimes do strange things. But the fact that he is still on our team pretty much sums up what teams thought of him. If Axford had any trade value at all he wouldn't be here now. I think the problem with comparing Axford to K-Rod is K-rod had a lot longer history on his side. He essentially had one bad season his entire career and rebounded enough this season to make a team think it was just a bad season. Ax on the other hand has about two years of good play before he melted down. While he has been very good at times this season he has also been brutal for stretches. K-Rod has not had such hiccups.

When stop lights go out why is it so hard to figure out you treat it like a four way stop?

I would also non-tender, which was why I am a little cheesed off that Melvin didn't trade him in mid-July when he had value. You're assuming he had trade value. All the other teams saw what he was. A stretch of 20 some games wasn't going to make teams suddenly forget how bad he can be. I think contending teams want far more consistency then he provides. I would cut him loose after this season for the very same reason. If he would suck in a game then come back the next time and be ok I could deal with it. It's the long stretches of suckitude that makes him so frustrating.

The most efficient strike out ever. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/astros-minor-leaguer-vinnie-catricala-strikes-one-pitch-182609577.html

I think having a roid boy totally screw things up is appropriate here. I don't know if Melky sings better or worse than Carly Rae Jepsen though. http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/r_INXdBvynIOJI.uUltdRQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTUwMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2013-08-02/b57c3d68-2e17-4e20-8b9c-a169f8701f56_melkythrow080213.gif

He isn't playing every day. He playing about what normal catchers do isn't he? Has there been any sign that he does wear down as the year goes on?