MilwaukeesBest

I don't mind the trade whatsoever. I think no matter what trade the Brewers pull the same posters will insist the GM/coaching staff are idiots and will disagree with every move. Even though players like Villar and Guerra have 100% hit all other moves out of the park, and that's before we have fully seen the other fruits like Nottingham, Derby, Diaz, Broxton, Supak, Wilkerson, Betancourt, etc.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true and doesn't mean we can't question the deal. Looking at what relief pitchers are getting and then looking at what we're getting for 1.5 years of one if the best catchers in the game, it's completely fair to question what we got back. Teams are paying a premium to shorten the game from 9 innings to essentially 6 or 7. Really isn't comparable to look at a Miller/Chapman return and Lucroy's. It's comparing apples to oranges.

Seriously who is letting Lucroy sleep in this morning? I'd like to know the details for the no-trade clause. As previously noted, he could be using this as leverage for a pay increase. Teams can't wait forever in the Brewers or Indians case as dominos fall around them. I'm hoping everything gets finalized before I get overly excited. Call me a skeptic but the Mets BS last year really makes me doubt deals before they're official.

Last two prospects involved appear to be Ben heller and J.P. Feyereisen, no McKenzie, so we can still hope. With that return for the Yanks do you prefer the package for Miller or Chapman better? More control for Miller but I almost prefer the one for Aroldis from the Cubs. What are you guys' thoughts?

If I read the post correctly and am thinking along the same lines as you I don't believe he mentioned which team Smith was being shopped to for the high K/9 ratio. Maybe he did, I just don't remember that. McKenzie fits that mold, could you image Luc, Andrew Miller, and Smith there? I don't think they'd do it, but with these deals and if they truly believe their window is right now...

This post is funny to me in a "it shouldn't be funny" kind of way. If this deal falls through it will be two years in a row. Happening once doesn't happen all too often, but twice back to back years, man oh man.

Rosenthal: No word yet on status of Lucroy trade. Possible Indians getting both him and Miller. Possible Lucroy deal falling apart.

Wow. Rosenthal reports it.

And the reason I posted I completely forgot to mention. Lucroy has been with the franchise through the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. It's going to be quite a bit different not having him as the staple in the lineup and behind the dish. Always a community and team first guy, Lucroy has been the role model kids should be looking up to in times of celebrities doing very questionable actions for clicks. The things I'll miss most is his blue collar attitude, a sensation that is very familiar to a Wisconsin guy, born and raised. I'll never forget his grand slam after Gibson played bean ball with Braun. I'll also never forget how robotic his running looks around the bases. Lol. Thanks for everything you've done Luc! Go get a ring and don't forget about us!! But please accept the damn trade.

I'll throw in my two cents for the overall situation even though the mystery fourth piece hasn't been confirmed/denied yet. From the Milwaukee side I like the deal. I'm a fan of Meija as many are, Pipeline has him at a 50 hit but you can't argue a 42 and counting hit streak. Sounds legit. Cody Allen and Chang are both pieces that are playing very well right now and are great guys to have in the organization. If some of our prospect outfielders/infielders scuffle, these guys are right there to add depth to the system. That's why positions don't really matter to me in acquiring prospects through trades or the draft, everything will sort itself out. Stearns also valued him higher than Zimmer/Frazier as all three of them were discussed as a centerpiece but Meija was agreed upon. If the mystery fourth piece is Sheffield or McKenzie I'd be very happy. Like incredibly happy. Internally I've always thought (back to the "guy or guys" thread) that I'd like a package of good players from the Indians over a "guy" from potentially the Rangers and this is exactly what it seems like we got. Sheffield reminds me of a left handed Devin Williams numbers wise, different body types though. For what it's worth, I wasn't as high on Zimmer/Frazier as everyone else specifically because I really liked the idea of Meija and some other good quality depth, rather than "the guy" and a secondary lesser piece. For the Indians, I love the deal on paper. Trading Meija while having Luc for 1.5 years is great. Didn't have to give up their top prospects but the system's depth took a hit a bit. I think this is completely necessary move for them to make given where they are, what they need, and what they had available. I'll definitely be pulling for Cleveland through the rest of the season assuming this deal goes through. Even if Luc and Smith were sent to the Mets, with all the garbage that has gone on in the last calendar year with the Brewers and them, I honestly probably would have wanted the Cubs to advance further than them. Okay, well maybe not. If Smith goes to the Indians it'll be interesting to see what Milwaukee got from Cleveland when is all said and done to see how close some of our proposals were. I can't think of one deal made by Stearns that I haven't been a fan of. Potentially Nottingham can move off of Catcher at some point to advance the bat but no rush with that right now. At the end of the deadline a guy like Chad McClanahan could be left off the MLB Pipeline top 30. Wowza.

I have a solution. Be a fan of the Orioles. They have the least amount of steals at 13 and they have a different manager.

Ever read the responses most guys like him get on twitter? I dont blame him, that place is a cesspool. I just use it to follow news and sports and I never tweet. He is not that way with my tweets so i dont see him that way Or is he 100% that way every time, you just don't see it that way, Eugene?

Really one of your only posts that I've agreed with, but in this aspect I couldn't agree more. I think we all become victim to our own ways of "scouting" players and a lot of that comes back to MLBPipeline's assessment of players. While that may truly not be incorrect, it's only one perspective of what a player can become. It's the same argument when fan bases get upset over their 37th ranked prospect moving down 3 spots. Is there really a difference between 34 and 37? While there's definitely value in having a mass amount of guys in the top 100, it really all depends on if those players can have it translate to the major league field. So many excellent players have never appeared on the list. To really speed up the rebuild, that's exactly what smaller market teams consistently need to do. Teams like St. Louis and San Fransisco aren't necessarily praised via prospect lists but consistently churn out quality major league players each year that few have heard of.

Lucroy to the Angels for Albert Pujols, Huston Street, and Lincecum. I mean this post/series of posts by BrewCrewin07 is like trying to explain to an older fan who isn't a diehard A) what a rebuild is and B) why the Brewers need to do it. Can't/won't/shouldn't be looking at only AAA or major leaguers because you're shooting yourself in the foot in terms of talent level coming back. "Good luck identifying that" referring to Single-A recruiting is exactly what their job is and we've seen that it almost seems to be Sterns & Co. forte. He's good, probably a little better than us keyboard warriors at it. Also if a team half rebuilds and signs a bunch of players on the market, pretty soon those FA signings expire and you're left right back to where you were in the first place, with a poor system with little to no major league talent. But maybe small market Milwaukee can make the Los Angeles trade and sign those three to long term contracts, you know, with their unlimited money.

Wisconsin is Low A. I think he meant low"ercase" a

Hill was swinging, by the way..... Uh, I don't know.... Both Hill and coaches, I guess. Yet, ultimately, these strategy decisions fall on Counsell. I'm finding that manager and coaches do not have a good hold of player strategy. Maybe that is similar on other teams too, not sure. I say this partly because of my minute conversation with Ed Sedar last season... http://forum.brewerfan.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=33233&p=957632&hilit=Sedar#p957632 I personally think you're a chronic nitpicker of a rebuilding team. Brewers could win 15-0 each game for the next week and you'd be complaining because Counsell brought in Torres instead of Thornburg in game 4. I think you should stick to your softball dynasty.

Quick, Tell us what we're going to get for Lucroy, Jeffress, Smith, Thornburg, etc.

Can't predict injuries, where would Santana have played? The consensus all along was to get a true CF, so with that you had Braun, Santana, and Davis who were all true corner OF's.

All of those points are somewhat fascinating to me, can't wait until some big time rumors pop up. I can only dream of the return from Houston for a Lucroy + Nelson package...

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.) I really hope you're not suggesting starting over with managers just to get Villar to stop stealing 3rd with 2 outs. The thing is, our other issues, are our real issues. Villar stealing 3rd with 2 outs, (I think he's been caught twice this entire year stealing 3rd with 2 out), has probably not cost us a run over the course of this season, much less a win. No one ever said it was good fundamental baseball. I even said he needs to clean that up over time. The thing is, this year, it doesn't matter. At all. Do you think maybe it's possible that right now, while it doesn't matter, Counsell wants to let one of his brightest young players make his own mistakes and learn from them himself over time and grow as a player right now and gradually adapt and learn his own limitations? Rather than getting up in his face and benching him and micromanaging his baserunning? Agreed. Definitely not an issue to lose your mind over in the first year of a full year's teardown. If he continues to do it when the team is expecting and playing for a postseason birth, different story. Right now work on the stuff that you're not good at and go from there. Limit and eliminate it, yes, but no reason for fans to call for his spot. And yes, I am "protecting" him in the sense that it's a giant pet peeve of mine when players are exceptional across the board in their skills but have one thing they need to work on or is completely blown out of proportion and people freak out about it. The Braun trade rumors for example, each article lists the "PED drama" that he'd bring, but Aroldis Chapman's domestic abuse seldom comes up, Ortiz's Hall of Fame career and no mention of PED's, Bartolo Colon as America's hero at 42 but no mention of his past, etc. This is no different. I said it yesterday, Villar is batting .300 at leadoff, walks, hits for some pop, plays pretty darn good defense when a tough play is in front of him, reliable, not injury prone, etc. Milwaukee fans don't get these players as often as other franchises. Enjoy him.

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.) Good idea. Let's fire Counsell tonight after the game.

While they seem pretty preventable I think the group of people that calls him a "moron" for getting thrown out are also the ones who applaud and praise him as he leads the league in steals. He's still a young player learning to steal. Why not in a year with no expectations see how far you can push the envelope? As frustrating as some of the blunders may be between him and our old friend Carlos Gomez, these two players have also contributed to scoring runs and putting themselves in positions to score that other players simply cannot do due to their tools. In any situation you're going to get some good with the bad. Any player. Chris Carter K's, Braun has chronic injuries, Scooter is handcuffed to second and can maybe? hit lefties, etc. That "moron" coming into the season was a castoff by his old organization. Looked at as maybe a utility guy and placeholder until Arcia is ready. Now he could be long term with the organization as he bats around .300 with some pop and speed. Growing pains are part of it.

Astros just signed Cuban Yulieski Gurriel to a 5 year deal and are tenatively expecting him to join the major league club in about 3 weeks-ish. While that spot seemed to be essentially given (and deservingly so) to Alex Bregman as he continues to climb the ladder, do you think think that that move could make him expendable? The question would be assuming the Astros would be willing to listen to offers on him to improve their big league club, what would it take to get someone like him? It seems there would be some interest in Luc and some relievers, what would be an appropriate package? Doesn't have to be a 2-1 or 1-1 swap either, just looking for some ideas. Lucroy and Thornburg/Smith for Bregman, Musgrove, Perez, and a lotto ticket or two?

Gotta wonder about the service time clock with Profar too right? I mean if both were controlled as minor league players without their clocks going, I'd side with Profar. If we'd be getting another couple years from Gallo than with that from Profar (if those are our only two options), I'd side Gallo. To be honest I'm a sucker for the toolsy players. I know those mentioned above have them but a Brinson, Victor Robles from the Nats, even a Demi in our system are guys that I dream about putting their tools together. That's why I've really been hoping Lewis is a piece in the return from the Texas side. Throw in some pitching and we've got the structure of a serious package.

Certainly an incomplete, but you're forgetting his biggest acquisitions in Santana, Phillips, and Hader (and hopefully Houser too?). Also, Anderson was always just going to be a stopgap pitcher for the rebuilding years, and look at the stats of who we gave up for Flores, Supak (who has done well in limited innings), and Broxton - Sardinas has somehow been even worse than Flores, and Jason Rogers has spent most of the year in AAA while doing nothing of value for PIT. Again, much more time is needed, but I'd say early returns on Stearns' deals are promising. Santana, Phillips, Hader, and Houser were all acquired by Doug Melvin. In fact, if you really want to start splitting hairs, you could say he was a lead in acquiring Gomez and Fiers for Houston as he was the Assistant GM at that time. I think it's best for the sake of this argument to keep it to Milwaukee transactions.