CanOfCorn

Was there ever audio of Moose confirming that he had at least one multi-year deal that he turned down? Or any further proof other than a tweet by Jon Heyman? Just curious... Also...this was a great signing then and is proving to be one of the most significant signings we've had. Imagine where we'd be if Stearns wasn't able to lock down Grandal and Moose with Attanasio opening up his check-book a bit wider to make it happen.

This is actually pretty close to what I think might happen. I think KC might want a lower-level prospect with a higher ceiling/lower floor but this is a good starting point. I also disagree with many people thinking that offer is too low for Thor. I think that's pretty spot-on! I was texting a friend of mine earlier today and told him we should start the offer with Burnes, Hiura, Ray and Woodruff. If they say no, throw in Carmona or Rodriguez to seal the deal. That is likely three top 150 MLB prospects along with a solid, mid-rotation, MLB-ready starter in Woodruff. The Mets are more likely to want some talent that is ML-ready. I think that offer is plenty good enough to get Thor from the Mets. No other team can match that. Merrifield I would think an offer including Phillps and Dubon would be about what they're looking for. If they want Santana, I say give them Santana over Phillips then and maybe you can keep Dubon and throw in a couple low-level guys like Carmona or Rodriguez as mentioned above. Either way, I think these are both moves that keep the eye on the prize. Stearns basically created a 5-year window with the moves he made this offseason. This would keep that window very much in tact. You would have Merrifield thru 2022 and Thor thru 2021 and we'd have plenty of excess in MLB SPs to trade in the offseason to refill some of the void in our prospect pool. Davies, Suter, and Woodrufff (if not already traded) would immediately become expendable. At least two of them should be traded. You'd still have plenty of MLB-ready SPs on the roster. Our rotation depth would look like: Syndergaard (thru 2021) Nelson (thru 2020) Anderson (thru 2020) Guerra (thru 2022..but he's already 30) Peralta (thru TBD but at least thru 2023) Chacin thru 2019, then Ortiz should be ready in 2020 I don't see how we'd be giving up too much and I don't see how anyone wouldn't consider us legitimate World Series contenders for the next 4 years. If the prize is a World Series and clearly our window is 5 years with the Yelich/Cain deals, this makes the most sense. Also keep in mind that we wouldn't be paying Syndergaard $20 million until probably the last year of arbitration for him. That's an absolute steal and it allows us to maintain some financial flexibility. Think of how bad off we'd be if we made a deal for Cobb or Darvish. Syndergaard isn't Cobb or Darvish. This kid is an absolute beast and he's only 25 years old! We'd have plenty of $$ left to spend on Free Agents over the next few years to fill in a void that the now missing prospects would've filled. Do it, Stearns!!

Certainly you're not remembering Tyler Thornburg for Travis Shaw, Mauricio Dubon, Josh Pennington, and Yeison Coca...

Everyone seems so down on McHugh. Sure, he's not the ace that everyone really wants but lets be realistic at this point...we're not getting Archer and we probably shouldn't want him. If we make another big trade for a guy like Archer our Farm system would be completely depleated. McHugh would raise the floor on our rotation and he certainly has a higher ceiling than Chacin/Suter/Woodruff. He doesn't walk a lot of batters, he throws strikes, He has a good shot at having a better year than Davies even. If Houston calls and asks for Aguilar and a Top 15-20 prospect, I make that deal in a second if I'm Stearns. With the offense we have along with the continued success of our bullpen, a rotation of... Nelson Anderson McHugh Davies Chacin/Woodruff/Suter ...certainly is playoff-caliber and can make a run at the pennant! You don't NEED an ace to get to the WS. You need about a 3.5-3.8 rotation ERA and that rotation certainly has the ability to hit that mark.

"Hey, don't forget about me! I know I look like a 15-year-old, but I won 17 games with a 3.9 ERA, and I'm only 25!" - Zach Davies Haha whoops!

Stearns should call up Cobb's agent and offer him 3 years, $45 million with incentives. Get this deal done! A rotation of Anderson/Davies/Chacin/Miley/Guerra,Suter isn't going to cut it. I'm very surprised the Brewers couldn't jump on Arrieta at $25 million/year for only 3 years. That seems like a perfect deal. What we didn't want is to have to sign him for 5+ years. Cobb at $15 million/year, while still a risk, has a lot of upside and certainly doesn't buckle us down for future deals. We can't afford to make a big trade at the deadline for a TOR starter. We need to raise the floor on this rotation with Cobb. There's no way he doesn't accept that offer after seeing Arrieta and Lynn both sign for FAR less than expected overall. If Nelson comes back close to form, a rotation of Nelson/Anderson/Cobb/DAVIES/Chacin,Miley,Guerra,Woodruff by July is very workable when you consider we will have a top 5 offense and defense in the NL this year.

Has HH19 said anything about this? He had said there was a trade lined up with an AL team... My suspicion is that any trades or FA moves with regards to a Starting Pitcher would be completely on hold until Darvish signs. Why would a team make a trade before they know what other teams may be interested in their SP once Darvish signs with someone? Also, would we really be dead set on Darvish AND also make a trade for a starter? Seems like we'd be directly impeding the progress of a guy like Woodruff (unless he's also included in said trade). I'm curious what HH19 has to say about the developments. I haven't kept up with all the forum topics so I may have missed a comment in another thread.

Phillips profiles as a PERFECT 4th OF. He plays all 3 OF positions well above average and is a left-handed bat off the bench. Gives us two lefties and two righties to work with. Broxton and Santana could very well be packaged together. Or Broxton going in the 'smaller' deal for a 2B.

Santana for Meija in a HEARTBEAT. Hard to see that happening. The problem with Walker is he's going to get 3 years from someone. That's absurd. We can't make that deal. I honestly don't think Walker is an option. With Harrison we have ultimate flexibility and we can get rid of him or trade him after this year or next when Huira/Dubon are ready.

Harrison is not overrated and the key to all our acquisitions this off-season is defensive flexibility. Neil Walker can barely play 2B. Harrison is a beast at all IF positions (minus SS) and can play corner OF. We also only have to commit to one year to him and I promise you we won't be getting rid of any decent prospects on our list to acquire him. Send them Bickford and a life-time supply of synthetic urine.

My guess is the second, smaller trade will be a trade for Josh Harrison.

Don't forget Fullmer

Gotta do everything possible to keep Burns. Trade Woodruff or Ortiz but keep Burns.

Salazar is a solid #2 pitcher. The problem with him is durability. He's only pitched > 140 innings once and it was in 2015. What about Manea as a possible option? He'd fit in well considering he's a lefty, too. Young guy with tons of upside and has team control thru 2022.

Seems like teams are waiting for Darvish to pick his team to trade any starters away. That would/could leverage a better offer. The remaining top FAs after Darvish all have draft pick compensation tied to them as well. More teams will be looking at the trade market. I expect Darvish to make a decision by the end of the weekend (likely tomorrow).

Here's how I do it... You give them Brinson You give them the choice between Ortiz/Woodruff You give them the choice between Diaz/Dubon You give them a TOP 20-25 guy like Diplan or Bickford You ask for Castro and Yellich. Fills our hole at 2B and CF. Then we flip Santana to Cleveland, Boston, Arizona or KC for a SP. (Salazar, Duffy, Corbin etc.) If it were a perfect world, that's what I would do. Losing those 3 prospects would hurt but not as much as it would hurt us to lose out on Yelich and then Brinson never pans out. Stearns knows our prospects better than anyone. I'm sure he has guys he values over others. We need to stop thinking that all of our pitching prospects are future studs and sit back and realize that is not the case. It wasn't too many years ago that Lopez looked like our savior in the wings. The guy has completely tanked since being our #1/#2 prospect just a few years ago. He'll likely never make it to the majors. We have to assume that's a possibility with all the SPs we currently have. To sum it up I feel like in the end, we can afford to lose 3 top 10 prospects for a guy like Yelich as long as Stearns has other moves setup. Adding Yelich doesn't do enough in itself and I also don't believe Yelich + Lynn = Playoffs. We need another piece to fall and if HH19's inside info has been correct, then it certainly sounds like Stearns has other deals lined up to fill other holes if this deal goes through. Just remember when we traded for CC Sabathia. The big prospects in that deal ended up being complete duds. The only guy Cleveland ended up getting a bunch of value out of was Michael Brantly (and he was the PTBNL). LaPorta was almost exactly where Brinson sits right now (A Top 30 prospect) and everyone seems to think he'll be a solid MLB-player. All hypothetical. We KNOW Yelich is a good Major Leaguer. A VERY good Major Leaguer. I love how our fans are really high on our farm system and so am I but to think that Brinson and one other guy is enough to get Yelich is absurd. It's going to take at least 3 of our TOP 10 prospects to get him. And I'm definitely OK with it. I think the one untouchable should be Burns and maybe Hiura. Everyone else should be on the table at this point.

This isn't fantasy baseball...

I'd say that's probably about accurate with what the actual proposal is. We might need to throw in another guy or two but they would be much lower level prospects (#20-#30 type guys). I can't see Stearns giving up more than that for just Yelich at this point...

Let us think about this for a moment. It seems fairly clear with past moves that Stearns highly values players that can play more than one position. This would fit with the narrative that he's trying to sell Santana hard and trying to acquire a guy like Yelich who can play all OF positions. He also seems to value guys like Harrison, Nunez, Villar, etc. This would also fit with him wanting to sell high on a guy like Diaz who seems inept at playing a different position besides 2B at the MLB level. I love the way Stearns thinks about this. Since we are a smaller market team we need to think about this per position. We need to look at it this way. We need to improve our team by 8-10 wins from last years team in order to be in contention for the NL Central. Obviously with Nelson out for a period of time I put our current roster at about an 80-82 win team. We need to hit 90. That's the goal in the end. Make the Yelich trade with Brinson, Ortiz, Diaz, etc. (probably shouldn't cost that much though...just throwing names out there) going to the Marlins and trade Santana to an AL team for a SP and possibly a 2B (Salazar/Kipnis) C - Pina/Vogt 1B - Thames/Aguilar 2B - Kipnis/Villar 3B - Shaw/Perez SS - Arcia RF - Phillips CF - Yelich/Broxton LF - Braun SP - Nelson (when healthy) SP - Salazar SP - Anderson SP - Lynn SP - Davies/Woodruff/etc That's a solid lineup/rotation right there. I think these are all pretty realistic moves and puts us right near contention without having to overspend on anyone. Yeah it is a decent prospect haul we'll have to give up for Yelich but with the depth that we have I'm not sure it really hurts us. In my opinion, Santana has played his best year in the majors. I feel this is something he can't sustain with his build and he's only going to digress more from his already poor defense. Sure we don't have that 'ACE' but we have 4 guys who are pretty legitimate #2 guys right now. That's a better overall rotation than we had in 2011/2012. I think this gets us pretty close to 8 wins over our last year's roster especially if we get the 2016 version of Kipnis. It gives us some flexibility with the rotation and even some additional trade bait (Woodruff, Davies). Maybe we make another deal for another OF that isn't Broxton. That's also a possibility. I could also see us getting someone else to man 1B. I still like the idea of an Abreu trade. DBACKS are also listening on Corbin which could be something Stearns could get in on. Lots of possibilities right now. I can't remember a time where there were so many valid avenues we could go this late in the offseason. Very unique situation right now for all of Major League Baseball. The best thing about this is that the entire rotation would be under team control thru 2020.

Stearns is playing the small ball game to get us to 90 wins. IF he has a trade lined up that's decent for Santana this is a HUGE win for us. Picture getting Yelich for Brinson and one other top 10-ish prospect and then trading Santana for some pitching help (Salazar) along with perhaps a 2B with high upside (Kipnis). I think we can assume that Stearns values guys who can play more than one position. Yelich gives us the ultimate platoon because he can play all 3 OF positions (as can Phillips and Broxton). If we have a solid deal to fill a rotation need this is a HUGE win-win for the Brewers without having to spend a lot of $$. We could then go out and sign a guy like Lynn. How would a rotation like this sound: Nelson Salazar Lynn Anderson Davies/Woodruff/etc ...and only costing us Brinson and maybe one other top 10-ish prospect (because we can consider Yelich a clear upgrade to Santana). While also filling a need at 2B in the mix here either from the Marlins or another team.

So if Ellsbury and now Yelich rumors are true then maybe Santana to the Indians is actually Step B in the plan.

Who would we have been trading away? I don't see them having a need for Santana and I just don't see that as being enough value for Shaw... Also I'm hearing the Brewers have sent a formal trade proposal for Yelich?

If we did, that would have to include a 3rd team as HH19 originally suggested as a theory. Roping the Orioles in with Machado and then the O's getting back a Burnes or Brinson would likely be the only way trading Meija makes sense for the Indians. Indians wouldn't trade Meija unless they think they are getting the guy that is taking them over that hump and I don't see how Santana would be that guy. Machado would be. Shaw might be if another smaller piece is added in...

Thanks for all your insight so far, HH19. Please keep it coming. I trust what you've been saying about a 'significant' trade with an AL team. Maybe the trade does include Machado to the Indians which would possibly mean Meija to the Crew, maybe its a trade with the White Sox, maybe none of the above.... but it's as exciting as a time gets to be a Brewers fan. The Ellsbury rumors seems to be based on two things only: a tweet by a guy with the handle 'BarStoolSports' along with the fact the original Crasnik tweet about a Brewers trade made mention of an OF being discussed. Couple that with the massive # of Yankees fans on Twitter it just blew up everywhere. I haven't been this excited about a team since 2012. I love the discussion we have going on here.

Salazar is Arb eligible in 2019 and not a Free Agent until 2021. We would have a solid #2 SP for 4 years of control and if Kipnis returns to 2016 form, he's a major upgrade at 2B but that's the risk we take. Santana for Salazar, Meija and Kipnis would never float with the Indians. That's a massive haul for a guy who plays questionable defense in RF and not everyone is sold on. They would have to be getting someone else back via a 3rd team.