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Again, Clemson 27 current NFL players / Wisconsin 26 current NFL players. Clemson has two wins over Ohio State and two national championships since UW last beat Ohio State. The Badgers aren't going to match Ohio State in recruiting but that doesn't mean they don't have enough talent to beat them on the field. That has been repeatedly demonstrated by teams equally and less talented than Wisconsin. The improvement needs to come from the playbook, play calling, and game planning. It can be done as other programs have shown.
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See, now you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction. No one ever said the talent was equal. The gap isn't as big as it's made out to be and certainly the results shouldn't be this lopsided. OSU is not producing talented QBs but their QBs are putting up video game numbers. That's scheme and it's not something Wisconsin has in it's arsenal. Other far less talented teams than Wisconsin have been able to beat Ohio State and they didn't do it with tons of 5 star recruits or future NFLers. Wisconsin needs to innovate to beat Ohio State and now even former players are saying it.
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Agreed. Unless of course they used the 2 months to install an entirely new, less predictable, more dynamic offense. And recruit a whole new group of athletes to go along with it. Then how the heck has Purdue beaten them twice since 2010, athletes? Michigan State 3 times since 2010? Excuses.
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Try having a debate with someone who has produced no evidence and chalks everything up to lack of talent despite the number of Badgers enjoying strong NFL success, and doesn't even consider that scheme might be holding them back in college.
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Teams that have beaten Ohio State since the last time Wisconsin beat them in 2010... Michigan State - 3 times Purdue - 2 times Penn St - 2 times Clemson - 2 times Iowa - 1 Michigan - 1 Nebraska - 1 Virginia Tech - 1 Miami - 1 Florida - 1 Oklahoma -1 Who on that list is churning out significantly more NFL players than Wisconsin? Just as telling is how many of those teams have churned out less and still have wins over Ohio State.
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Agreed. Unless of course they used the 2 months to install an entirely new, less predictable, more dynamic offense.
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From the looks of the chart homer provided, it looks like it's your hill to die on. The NFL talent gap between the two is not as lopsided as the results have been. Anyone want to comment on the Clemson / Wisconsin NFL numbers relative to NCAAF results?
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Thanks for making my point for me with that chart, homer.
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It's simply easier to chalk it up to talent than it is to recognize the deficiencies in play-calling and game planning. The Badgers can continue to place an inordinate amount of talent into the NFL relative to their NCAA achievements and fans will continue to say there's not enough talent. Fine, cool. Meanwhile Buckeyes QBs continue to put up Heisman-like numbers and do nothing in the NFL. That's scheme.
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Yeah actually they are. You must not have been watching too closely when Baun and Orr were making life hell on Fields the entire first half. The defense can't be perfect all day. Meanwhile the offense thinks running up the gut every first down and having a TE block the likely #1 pick in the NFL draft is a good idea. No but that's not scheme.
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All I'm saying is that the talent gap is not nearly as big as fans make it out to be. Look at the numbers these OSU QBs and RBs put up every season. Yet where are they in the pros? Ezekiel Elliot, great, well Melvin Gordon and James White aren't exactly slouches. Ohio State's lines dominate the Badgers every year they play, but where's the disparity on the pro level? OSU has both Bosas in the NFL, Wisconsin has both Watts. Wisconsin has arguably 3 of the top 5 offensive lineman in the NFL right now. All these eye popping numbers put up by Buckeye QBs and what have they done in the NFL? The NFL talent coming out of these programs is nowhere indicative of the lopsided scores and results between these two teams.
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I remember this kid named JJ Watt that used to dominate. I think he went on to be a pretty good pro.
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Yes the coaching could be better at times but how many of the Badgers starters would start for OSU? Maybe 2 or three? That might be generous. When you actually think about it, I can’t name one that would be for sure. Maybe Taylor, but Dobbins is legit. Wow, no wonder Badger fans let this program off the hook so easily. How many offensive lineman, LBs, and RBs need to be drafted in the NFL before we start realizing there is real talent there. Biadasz, Taylor, Cephus, Baun, Orr, Van Lanen all would get drafted in this coming draft and all would knock a current OSU player out of their starting spot. And there are plenty of other future NFL draftees wearing white jerseys today. It will amaze me to the day I die how misjudged talent can be if the deck is stacked against that talent. When the defense knows what's coming, it's incredibly hard to win matchups no matter how good you are.
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Yes the coaching could be better at times but how many of the Badgers starters would start for OSU? Maybe 2 or three? Proving my earlier point, more than you realize.
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Brilliant call having the tight end single block their dominant pass rusher on an obvious passing down. But yeah, it's all just a talent issue.
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Lol at that play call.
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And yet the Badgers offensive line will produce better pros. Talent isn't the issue on the o-line. You'd think the turnaround the Packers are enjoying now that the opposing defense doesn't know exactly what play is coming would enlighten fans as to how much the Badgers have to overcome. But it's far easier just to say it's all a talent issue.
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Not much detail to that answer considering my comments were "harsh" and "mostly wrong". My equally basic reply is: not running schemes like this they won't.
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I called for Mertz, but my statement was “Take the kid gloves off of Coan or play Mertz.” I don’t know if they don’t call shot plays, if he chooses to check it down, whatever it may be.... but they need to at least take a shot once in a while just to keep the safeties honest. Seems like they have training wheels on Coan some times... but to be clear I don’t hate Coan. Correct, and even Urban Meyer was saying as much at halftime. He said they have to do something with their WRs to keep the defense honest. He said Taylor (as good as he is) will go nowhere if they keep running their offense like this. For some reason, I tend to think Urban Meyer knows a thing or two about playing Wisconsin.
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This is harsh, and mostly incorrect, IMO. And the death of Jack Coan by Badger fans appears to have been a bit exaggerated.... Getting back to this, what was so harsh, and what was incorrect? I gave them plenty of credit for reaching this level as a program. Given the jump they've made in recruiting, one could argue this is the most advanced the program has ever been.They just don't appear capable of making the next step however. They overwhelm smaller programs with their offensive line but don't do anything all that worrisome scheme-wise to keep better, faster defenses guessing. So what more than topping out at a New Year's day bowl are you seeing in their future?
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This is harsh, and mostly incorrect, IMO. And the death of Jack Coan by Badger fans appears to have been a bit exaggerated.... I wasn't saying Coan is the problem. He's a decent QB playing against a stacked deck. They let him throw one downfield and he made the play. Good on him. Will they continue to be aggressive?
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Hallelujah a throw downfield!!!
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It's a damn shame that this defense is saddled with this offense.
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That's about all that's left at this point - a savior at QB, not the run of the mill system QB. It's a longshot but really the only hope.
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Chryst is Mike McCarthy. UW would need a Rodgers-level QB to overcome this stale, predictable offensive scheme. Someone who can throw people open and change plays at the line when the play has no chance. Something that's virtually non-existent in college which means Bucky is stuck with what you see today. Even that 4th and 1 they converted. It was gutsy to go for it, but the play called was trash. 11 defenders in the box and we get the token run up the gut. If #1 for OSU knew how to fill a hole or tackle, Taylor was going nowhere. That crap works against Eastern Michigan but try beating Ohio State over the course of 60 minutes, not so much. They're doing a lot right. They're recruiting better, they have possessed a creative, playmaking defensive scheme going back to Aranda, and they have an identity that works. Those 3 factors show that things could be a lot worse. But what's preventing them from ever getting over the hump is the McMarthy-like mentality of "out-executing" over "out-scheming" the opponent. I actually don't even think the talent gap is as massive as it's made out to be. UW is starting to churn out a lot of NFL talent. Chryst needs to innovate.
