monty57

Funny, I thought they signed extensions in the offseason. I must have just been remembering a story that said Attanasio was discussing extensions with them.

Didn't Ricky Henderson continuously get traded between the A's and Yankees? The difference being that he was a good player. As far as Yuni, if KC gave him to us and we just had to pay him, I might think about it, depending on how much he's being paid and if that money could be better used elsewhere. I wouldn't want to give up any type of prospects for him. I'd probably rather keep my money and prospects, go with Izturis/Maysonet for a while and potentially bring up Bianchi if he's showing life in AA.

The difference is the motivation. Malice is malice. Both were willful acts which could lead to injuries. Intentionally throwing at a guy isn't as bad as paying players to intentionally injure others, and therefore Hamels shouldn't get a full-season suspension, but it's still an intentional act which will harm another player. Plus, Hamels' statement implies that there is a good possibility that he's done this before and will do it again. He feels it's his responsibility to teach the kids a lesson. That's usually something that you'd like to stamp out if your goal is to protect your young stars. What if Harper comes out next time they meet and immediately charges the mound and pounds Hamels, and his excuse is "that's the new school way to get even?" Would that be exempt from harsh punishment since he wasn't paid to do it? No, that act would be a willful attempt to injure another player, just like intentionally throwing a fastball at someone. Basically, if the Commissioner's office wants to stop an action from happening, the way he does it is through stricter punishment. A 5-game suspension to a person who admits to intentionally throwing at someone tells me the Commissioner's office really doesn't want to stop pitchers from intentionally throwing at hitters. Jim Leyland said he thinks Hamels should have got at least a 15-game suspension, and I agree. That would be enough to make pitchers think twice about intentionally hitting a batter, and it could knock a playoff team out of the playoffs, so managers like LaRussa would think twice about telling pitchers to do it.

Yeah, Melvin designed this team to be contenders through 2012 and then fall off a cliff. I believe that was right when his contract was going to be over and he was going to retire, but then he "got the itch" and accepted an extension so he's going to be the one to figure out the mess. Since he traded away much of the future for two pitchers who would both leave in the same year, and designed some contracts to get pretty expensive in pretty soon, he had a decision to make prior to this season. Not surprisingly, he decided to go all in rather than trading away guys with one year left for prospects. "Going for it" was probably the correct path to take, but I honestly can't remember when he last traded a "proven player" for a prospect. Now we're in the position we're in, which is why I think we should hold tight for a month or so, don't do anything rash, and see where we sit in late June/early July. If we're not near the top of the division, I would suggest selling, as we could get a pretty good return for guys like Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and Hart. That could ease the drop-off from this season to next, but we have to "know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em." The way this season's started, it's looking like it could be time to "fold 'em" in July, and I hope Melvin and Attanasio have the wherewithal to sell if that's the correct path.

He kinda did. Moving Weeks from leadoff to #2 was a big step for "Rigid order" Roenicke. It now means the #2 spot is an "RBI position" instead of a "bunt the leadoff guy over" position. Moving Weeks further down in the order would seem to be a reasonable request until you realize that we have Ishikawa and Izturis in the 7/8 spots, so really the only thing we could do is move Lucroy to #2 and put Weeks #6. Again, this seems reasonable, except under Roenicke once lineups are set they must remain set, which means that Kottaras would need to be the #2 hitter when Wolf pitches and that would blow Roenicke's mind. I would guess that if Lucroy continues to hit and Weeks continues to not hit, eventually Roenicke will switch them in the order, and that will happen just about the time that Weeks breaks out, which will lead everyone to say it was the move down the lineup which caused Rickie to heat up, and one of our best hitters will be banished to the #6 spot for the rest of the season, while "the centerfield spot" bats leadoff and "the catcher spot" bats second.

I agree. Yesterday's pre-game show made it sound like Ishikawa was going to get most of the starts, and I think that's bad news. I'd like use this "opportunity" to see Green as an everyday player. I'd give him most of the starts at 1B and use him to give Weeks and Ramirez a day off here & there. I don't know if it's Melvin or Roenicke who doesn't like Green, but it seems one of them doesn't want to give him much playing time. My guess is Roenicke, since Melvin brought him up last year and Roenicke kept playing McGehee over him, it was Roenicke's call to put "this year's Kotsay" (Ishikawa) on the 25-man over Green, and now it sounds like Ishikawa is going to play over Green at 1B. I don't know if it's a general preference for veterans over rookies, or if it's a personal thing with Green, but I hate the thought that he's going to ride the pine while Ishikawa starts. Maybe he'll be a good MLB player or maybe not, but he has talent and now's a good chance for him to show what he can do.

Not directed at you, it was this from Briggs which has a few of us saying it's not time to give up on him: "Forget 1B, now that Green's up, sit Weeks who is absolutely killing them and play Green at 2B. $10 million or no, Weeks isn't doing the job. Eventually sure, they'll have to go back to him, but let him think about things from the bench for a while."

Green's already up and has played one game at first. I'd just play him at 1B and see what he can do at the MLB level. If he looks overmatched, then I'd go for a "Plan B," but give him the first shot.

A five game suspension for a pitcher is pretty meaningless. The team will basically just push him back a day and he won't miss a start. He admitted to performing an action which had the potential of injuring the biggest young star in baseball, playing in baseball's newest market for a team that is surprising baseball with it's play and drawing in lots of new fans. He didn't do it for any reason other than to "teach a rookie" some unknown message about how "old school" baseball is played. With that in mind, it is not unreasonable to believe that this is not an isolated incidence for Hamels. In the NFL, they just suspended a player for an entire season for willfully performing actions which could injure other players. I guess they don't take injuries quite as seriously in baseball. To anyone who says that there was little chance of injury, I'd ask them to turn a pitching machine up to 95 MPH and let it drill you in the base of your spine.

I agree the waggle probably isn't a problem, but since it was initially done to slow down the quick hands he had when he was in his early 20's, well, age does a good job of slowing down the hands when you're in your 30's. Maybe he doesn't need it anymore. I'd guess it's just one of those things everyone goes through and he'll work his way out of it. He's a good player, and it's unlikely he's "regressed" this far this fast. Now that we have a couple of players who can play 2B, it probably wouldn't hurt to give him a couple of days off, but it's way too early to give up on him. He's one of our best players and is signed to a big contract for a few more years, so for the most part he'll have to play through it.

I assume you would have to pay part of ARam's salary to just have a team take him, and if you want a useful part you would probably have to basically pay it all. Yeah, I've figured Ramirez's contract was untradeable since he signed it, but if they were to cut bait this season, the contract isn't quite as bad. It's years 2 & 3 that get expensive. If he heats up over the next couple of months and a playoff-team lost their 3B, they may be interested. I don't see it happening, but if Green were able to "prove himself" in the MLB at least Roenicke might be willing to admit he can play and Melvin could try to trade away one of the more expensive, over-30 players blocking him. Of course, in the pre-game last night it sounded like Ishikawa is going to get the lion's-share of starts at 1B, so the point is probably moot. One of the organization's few promising position prospects will sit behind a guy who's proven he can't play MLB baseball and will end up being a utility guy.

Imagine our lineup right now if our plan had been to play Green and Gamel at 3rd. We would be in serious danger. We are in "serious danger" now. If we had went with Green at 3B and Gamel at 1B, we would have had additional funds to pay for better backup options and bullpen arms, so the loss of Gonzalez wouldn't hurt so much, and we may have a few more wins. Plus, we might have money to pick up a 1B like Derrick Lee if necessary. It's also quite possible that Green would've outplayed Ramirez to this point in the season, both offensively and defensively, and not having Ramirez's contract on the books may have allowed us to have already signed Greinke. Of course, Melvin/Roenicke were never going to go with two "rookies" in Gamel & Green in this "all in" season, so if we hadn't picked up Ramirez, we would've signed someone like Carlos Pena. There are too many variables to know where we'd be if we hadn't signed Ramirez, so we may be in better or worse shape this year without the signing. I will say that we'd be better in a couple of years if Ramirez weren't on the roster making $16MM. If the signing doesn't help us win this year and hurts us in the next couple of years, then it will have been a really bad signing.

That's why I put the disclaimer at the bottom of my original post where I mentioned this trade... I didn't know if Hart would be enough. I guess I view it as kind of like our trading Lawrie for Marcum, and the only way the Orioles would go for the move is if they really think they have a shot at the division this year (like if they're still in first place in late July and think Hart could put them over the top). I'm probably in the vast minority in that I would give up on this season if it means we sell early (like late June/early July) and get really good talent back in return for all the trading chips we have. Looking at the opening day roster (and their contracts), I went into this season thinking the best thing that could happen was we'd win the division and have post-season success, and the next best thing would be that we'd falter early enough that Melvin would recognize the need to sell rather than losing a lot of talent for nothing. The worst-case scenario in my mind would be for us to be mid-season buyers and still miss the playoffs, losing Greinke, Marcum and K-Rod for nothing (Wolf too if he's deemed not good enough to exercise the option). Since I went into the season this way, it's probably easier for me to switch from "how do we save the season" to "how do we best help the franchise."

Trade Hart for Machado? That's just filling one hole by creating another. No, it's weakening this year's team to vastly improve future teams. If we made that move, we would essentially eliminate our chances of making the playoffs this year (which are already very slim with all the injuries that have occurred), but we would solve our SS question until 2018, probably longer if we extended him. With everything that's happened to the 2012 Brewers, I'm past the point of finding a band-aid cure. I think we should hold pat for a month or so to see what happens. Who knows, maybe Green, Weeks and Ramirez catch fire while St Louis has a rash of injuries. However, if we're not at or near the top of the division in late June/early July, we should sell before we lose Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and possibly Wolf for nothing. If we could trade 1.5 years of Hart for 6 years of a top young SS and we got some good prospects for Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and maybe Wolf, then we could have a shot at being good for the next decade. If we trade prospects and spend money to try to save 2012, we could end up with a .500 team this year and a sub-.500 team for the next few years.

I agree reilly, my vote would be to go with what we have for a month or so (Green at 1B, Estrada or Peralta in rotation, Izturis/Maysonet/Bianchi at SS). We were in the discussion as a playoff team to start this season, but everything has gone wrong for us so far. We're not doomed, but I think the oddsmakers would have us as a long-shot for making the playoffs at this point. Once we get to mid-June we'll know if we're in it or out of it. If we're at or near the top of the division, we can spend some of our meager resources (prospects or money) to upgrade. If we're out of it, we can sell off some of the guys who are going to be free agents to upgrade our future playoff chances. I also agree on the financial mis-steps. The strategy of signing aging veterans (whether they're free agents or extending our own guys when they're almost free agents) does not allow us to have much money to spend elsewhere, and trading for high-priced veterans has left us with a weak farm system unable to complement our MLB roster. Now, in a panic move to "save the season" (more likely putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound) we'll either sign a overpriced free agent or trade some of our few-remaining prospects. These moves will help us finish a little better in the standings this season, but won't stop us from losing a lot of talent to free agency this offseason. I'd personally rather see us sell than see us spend money & prospects to end up with a .500 record and lose Greinke, Marcum, K-Rod and possibly Wolf for nothing.

Well, it's not completely bare. There is the nightmare scenario that we decide that it is so important to win this year that we start trading away our pitching prospects for MLB SS's in the final year of their contract. Bon Jovi's "Let's go down in a blaze of glory" rang through my head as I typed that last sentance. Personally, I'd like to give what we've got a month or so to see how things shake out. If we aren't competing at that time, I'd start shopping guys like Hart, Greinke, Marcum and K-Rod in some of the scenarios I described in my last post to try to get a long-term solution at shortstop, the one position we don't have a long-term solution already in-house.

I liked seeing Green starting at 1B right away yesterday, and I hope he gets the "everyday" job, letting Conrad get the occasional start against LHP. With Gomez out, the thought of using Hart as the 1B vs LHP is probably out, as that would mean Morgan would have to face LHP. Once Gomez is back, Hart could get some starts at 1B vs LHP as well. But, basically, just let Green play 1B to see what he can do. Since this thread's about Conrad, I'd use him to give Weeks, Ramirez and Green an occasional day off, and I'd use him as the right-handed bat off the bench. I know he's a switch-hitter, but he's hit better vs LHP, and we don't have other right-handed options. As long as he plays passable defense, I actually think Conrad's a decent option as a utility player / pinch hitter.

but perhaps if the Pirates continue to flounder Don't look now, but the Pirates and Brewers are tied. Why would they look at trading away the guy they just signed, while we're looking to add? Their fan boards are probably saying "we've got a lot of young talent, if we could just add a pitcher, we'd be good. Perhaps if the Brewers continue to flounder we'll be able to trade for Greinke or Marcum." I'd say that if we really want to look at SS, we look for a long-term cure and forget about the band-aids. Baltimore is in first place in the AL East and have Endy Chavez .127 AVG / .172 OBP / .145 SLG / .318 OPS getting regular time in the corner OF/DH roles. They have Hardy signed at SS and Top Prospect Manny Machado in the minors. Could we work a deal centered around Corey Hart that would bring Machado over? Texas has Elvis Andrus cemented in as their MLB SS, and they have Jurickson Profar in the minors. They're pretty stacked, but maybe they'd like upgrading from David Murphy to Hart, or maybe they'd like Greinke or Marcum in their rotation. We may not trade in our own division, but the Reds have young Zack Cozart at the MLB level, and Billy Hamilton in the minors. They just locked up Phillips long-term at 2B, so where are they going to play everyone? The Rays may not be willing to part with a SS prospect, but again, there's blood in the water in New York and Boston, and the rest of the sharks in the division may want to capitalize. They have Korean-born Hak-Ju Lee in the minors and maybe Aramis Ramirez would ease the pain of losing Longoria with a torn hamstring. Plus, he could DH for them in the coming years, limiting the risk he won't be able to field 3B throughout his contract. The Red Sox have a few young SS's - so many that they let Lawrie go to Houston - and they're looking for a closer... we have two, and K-Rod should be very expendable as part of a trade for a SS upgrade. The Braves have Andrelton Simmons who almost won the starting spot this season. They're young and hoping for a playoff spot after blowing it last year and the Phillies are reeling, so they may be willing to trade Simmons or Pastornicky for a better shot at knocking the Phillies out. Greinke or Marcum would fit well in their rotation, allowing them to send Delgado back to the minors until Greinke/Marcum leaves at the end of the season, and we could probably get Simmons+others for one of those. The Astors acquired Jed Lawrie in the offseason, and they have Jonathan Villar in the minors. At some point, they may be willing to trade Lawrie but they'd probably be looking for prospects, so this (unlike the previous suggestions) would mean us trading prospects for an upgrade this season, but it could also help us in the future, as he has two arby years left. However, those lowly Astros we all like to laugh at are a game ahead of us in the standings, so who knows, maybe they'll try to make a shot at the playoffs in their final year in the NL. That may make Villar available for some pitching help. These are just a few ideas after quickly looking at some top SS prospects. I'm not suggesting what the value-for-value would be (in other words, my quick suggestions may be too little or too much to pay), but we could probably find a way to land a good young SS if we would stop looking completely at "win now" and would broaden our view to looking at something that could help us for a long time.

The Brewers seem to want to do anything possible to block Green from playing at the MLB level. Wouldn't it just make sense to give him some PT in hopes that he does something well so they could trade him? The new look Milwaukee Brewers... trying to build a team like the Yankee used to, only with 1/2 the payroll.

I agree. Green is stuck behind Weeks and Ramirez, so this is a good chance to let him play everyday to see what he can do. Maybe if he plays well enough the Brewers will realize that they could trade Weeks or Ramirez for another useful part and let Green man 2nd or 3rd in coming years. Whatever the case, he's a better option than Ishikawa or Conrad, and he allows Weeks and Ramirez to get some time off, as he can move to 2nd or 3rd for a game here & there as needed. But you're right, Green is not a superstar player who can carry a team, and if some of the other players don't step it up, the Brewers won't win. Few players are that good. I hope Bianchi (or anyone in the organization) steps up and takes the reins at SS. I think Maysonet was a quick, easy answer until we see how long Gonzalez will be out. If it's less severe than it looks, we'll probably stick with Izturis/Maysonet for a couple of weeks. If it's season-ending, we'll probably do something else. Regarding Bianchi, it probably depends on whether the Brewers think he's MLB ready, but judging by the way they keep trying to block Green, I doubt they'll let Bianchi see the light of day until all other options are gone. I'd like to see someone who may have a future with the Brewers get a shot, but the modern "win now at any cost" Brewers probably won't do it.

I know it's not completely fair to put all of the onus on the player, but Gamel and Braddock have cost themselves a lot of money over the years. Gamel's admission that he cut back on junk food and worked out more may be a good indication that the team had a reason for keeping him in the minors, and that he finally did "get it" this year. If I were a newly drafted player in the Brewers' system, I would look at the Gamel and Braddock situations and think that would be enough incentive to do what the team asks. That said, in this day and age teams do a lot of evaluation, both physical and mental prior to committing time and money into a player they're going to draft. "Mental makeup" and "character issues" are some reasons why you will often see players fall down further in the draft than you would expects based solely on their physical skillset. A team can't know for certain that a player won't discover an affinity for Big Macs, but they learn a lot about a player and their family prior to the draft.

Green is a guy who many (myself included) thought should have been our starting 3B this year, Peralta is a "Top 100 prospect" with a power arm, and Aoki was the best hitter in Japan for the past decade. Asking for them to get starting positions for the Brewers isn't giving up, but it would allow for them to get some playing time, which will help us in the future, since they are all going to be under Brewers' control beyond this season. All trading for (or FA signing) a 1B or SP does is once again block one of our few promising prospects with an aging, expensive veteran, and could potentially weaken our farm system even more. The marginal difference between a Derrick Lee and Taylor Green is probably not much this season, but Green will be under control for years to come, so having him "break out" would be wonderful, while having Lee "break out" would only mean he'll be able to sign elsewhere next season and we'd have a few million less dollars in the bank. Trading for someone like Carlos Lee would be the same thing, and we'd have a couple less prospects on the farm. I'd like to see us get a SS, as Izturis/Maysonet isn't a good answer, and we don't have an "heir apparent" in the system, but it seems good SS are harder to find these days than good starting pitching, so I don't think it'll be easy to upgrade. Other than that, I'd hold tight to see how Green looks and how Estrada/Peralta do. In another month or so, we'll be far better set to answer the question of whether it's worth it to spend money and prospects to upgrade this year's team, or if it would make more sense to trade Greinke, Marcum and K-Rod rather than losing them to free agency.

Green outhit Gamel in AAA last year, so if you think Gamel was a decent option, then Green should also be a decent option. Carlos Lee fields the position pretty well, and is probably a .280 avg, 15-20 HR guy. He is not close to being worth what he's being paid, but he's not a bad player. However, I'd like to use these unfortunate injuries to allow some of our young players to get some playing time rather than trading away prospects for a stopgap effort for this year. If we're going to focus on something, I'd see how bad Gonzalez's injury is, and focus on finding a SS, as we don't have any answers there, while we have some options at 1B.

I want to clarify that I see a difference between "thinking about" and "doing." In my opinion, a GM should always "think about" every possible outcome. The Brewers are likely losing a lot of talent at the end of the season, so Melvin should have been "thinking about" selling since this offseason (i.e. what would have to happen for us to sell off, and if that happens, who do we sell and what do we try to get in return). Heck, I'm sure he's been "thinking about" what he was going to do with the Marcum/Greinke situation since he traded for both of them, knowing they'd both hit free agency at the same time. The beginning of May is obviously too soon to actually sell. Mid-to-late June (when we did the CC trade) would be the earliest I could see selling actually happen. That said, with what has occurred on the injury front, I wouldn't consider something like shopping K-Rod for a 1B/corner OF to be "selling."

The Yankees probably have better options than KRod (the way he's pitched so far) So far, Rodriguez has pitched in 618 games (661 innings) with 816 K to 291 BB, amassing 292 saves, a 1.17 WHIP and 2.59 ERA. But yeah, in 12 innings this season he's got a 6.52 ERA so no one would look twice at the bum.