TPlush

And then the Cubs paid $8 mil. Which is market rate according to your definition, and I agree :)

This is true. Batting Jesse Winker in the playoffs, not so much a recipe for success though

Looking back, most of us can agree that the mid-2000s up through the 2011 NLCS run, we were on an upward trajectory; drafted and developed plenty of young talent, made a few big moves (Sabathia, Greinke, etc.) and changed the narrative about the franchise. After a few not so great years, Melvin's final year, trading assets for rebuilding pieces, and into the Stearns era, also felt like the team was on an upward trajectory. Yelich and Cain acquisitions, the 2018 NLCS run, division titles, the "pitching lab", etc. It feels like for about a year or so now the tide is turning though. Trading an elite closer at the trade deadline while leading the division, to save money on payroll. Stearns' "bites of the apple" comment. Attanasio threatening to move the team if the stadium deal didn't get done. And now our biggest rival steals our highly-regarded, Milwaukee-native manager. We haven't even gotten to the Burnes (or Adames? and forget about Woodruff) trades yet. My point is not to be all doom and gloom. We're still much better off than we were 20-25 years ago. But it sure feels like we're entering (or have entered) a phase where ownership is just mailing it in, letting the franchise value go up while not really caring about the fans or team all that much. Not Rockies or Athetics level of dgaf at all, but more like a Minnesota Timberwolves "we're happy to make the playoffs! Yay!" type of mentality.

Not saying Counsell is in the tier that Ohtani is, but as a very clear example, yes, I do think there can be a "market of 1", or a very small number. There is no comp for Ohtani's deal this offseason. In the NBA, if Kerr, Popovich, or Spoelstra became a free agent, there is no comp for coaches of that caliber, it would be a very clear "market of 1". If a team becomes available in F1, it's a market of 1. And while I think Counsell's main motivation was getting paid as much as possible, I think he has a fair point that the best managers are underpaid in 2023. He's maximized the wins from the teams he's managed, we've all seen it for years and know it. Cubs fans complaining about pythagorean W-L record, etc. etc.... we know Counsell has been one of our advantages, regardless of how hard it is to wquantify. And all it takes is one or a few teams to agree with that, to create a high demand market for Counsell. There are very few managers in MLB as consistently good as Counsell, let alone available at this exact moment. Why it's not an overpay? Seems like there were at least 3-4 teams willing to break the record of manager salary for Counsell. This is a clear indicator what the Cubs paid was not an overpay, it was the minimum amount Counsell would take to sign the contract, and other teams missed out by not offering more. It's where supply met demand in this market.

Mark: "Good morning, Pat. Oh, so nice of you to bring coffee!" Pat: "My pleasure, Mark. So, about this job posting I applied to." Mark: "We're so glad you decided to apply. You're just what we need. But we are a small market team, so we'd only be able to pay $19.50/hour, and unfortunately we can't cover any travel-related expenses." Pat: "I'll take it, thank you so much Mr. Attanasio!" Mark: "Glad to have you onboard!"

You're twisting my words. You can overpay for a steak or a lightbulb or a garbage can. But a unique, talented, person who is compensated in the millions of dollars for their abilities, when there are only 30 positions total, what they get paid is the market rate. A rebuilding team wanted a highly experienced manager with a solid track record who's good at managing the clubhouse and understands analytics, $8 mil a year is where supply met the demand. One poster does not a genius make.

If you are unable to see the difference between a steak, and a highly unique, talented employee who is paid multi-millions $ per year... there's not much more to say :)

It's pathetic that you would actually harass someone in real life over this

You can disagree with the dictionary, that doesn't change the dictionary's mind :)

I think Brewers ownership is cheap. But anyone claiming that applies to the trades with Canha makes no sense. This was a great pair of trades, we gave up practically nothing for a half-season rental & playoff series. Wish we did this more often, not less!

Market rate is what someone is willing to pay. Cubs were willing to pay 40 mil, Brewers (reportedly) were willing to pay 27.5 mil (assuming same contract length). Attanasio was willing to pay 32% lower than market rate.

This is a tough pill to swallow. Counsell was "one of us", a lifelong Brewers fan, doing his post-playing retirement dream job, managing his hometown team and playing a major role in building us into a formidable team year in and year out. It's tough to see Counsell go. And like everyone else here it's extremely frustrating seeing him throw all that away to go to the cubs. Literally go anywhere else besides chicago or st louis, and the fan base would understand. It doesn't take away what Counsell has done for the team these past years, but he deserves no love going forward. That said, I think there is *a lot* more to the story than Cubs offer bank, CC accepts offer. Ownership (directly or indirectly) forcing the Hader trade mid-season to save a few mil after already being cheapasses every year, which essentially blew up an entire season, and one of our last shots to make a run with our big 3 rotation. Counsell is not an idiot, giving 2 ABs to Winker this year in the playoffs, I suspect was also sending a message - if ownership is too cheap to bring in anyone, literally anyone, so "if this is what you give me, I'll play him". Attanasio's public statements all but confirm this. Saying CC has "lost us" and that the Brewers didn't have a chance to match the Cubs offer. Classic corporate executive stonewalling. Translation of the bs coming from Attanasio: "I was too cheap to pay market rate for one of my best employees, so I'm going to deflect the public anger by blaming him for going out and getting paid his market rate." Yes, CC ultimately made the decision to go to the Cubs, which is ******; but Brewers ownership had a huge role in this building up over a couple years, likely, and now pays the price.

Disappointed But hey, it's almost Dame Time

This hasn't been discussed much, but I'd deal Williams for any sort of overpay at this point. He has the reputation as a top 3 closer in MLB, we have 2 years of control left, reliever performance is unpredictable, and near-0 chance he resigns in Milwaukee. (prepares to be roasted) A similar type of deal as the Hader trade, but ideally more young, controllable assets and less Taylor Rogers/Lamet would be nice. 4 decent prospects for Williams should be a pretty easy "yes" for Arnold.

I don't intend this to be rant-y or overly negative, but I realize it may come off that way. Just wanted to post my thoughts/reflections (both positive and negative) on our short postseason appearance, Feel free to post yours too. First, the positives: We made the postseason with significant playing time going to rookies. They may or may not become stars, but the fact a few of these rookies are at least potential everyday guys into the future should give us some optimism for the future. We got a lot of hits. 21 hits in 2 games. 1 run allowed in 8 non-Williams bullpen innings, even with Uribe's not totally unexpected wildness with a bonus semi-meltdown. Good aggressiveness early vs. Gallen. And the rest: Why the f### was Jesse Winker on the playoff roster, and given 2 at bats? In 2023 he had a 60 OPS+, can't play the field, hit 1 home run in 200 PAs... completely useless no matter how you slice it. I'm a big fan of Counsell and realtively happy with Arnold, but seriously, were we trying to lose? Compared to Winker's 2023: Tellez OPS was over 100 points higher. Hiura's OPS was 200 points higher last season than Winker this year (I know, lucky peripherals, even so, nowhere close to as bad as Winker). Brian Anderson had an OPS 120 points higher and plays decent D at several positions. Hell, Woodruff with a wrecked shoulder was probably a better PH option than Winker (this is a joke... sort of). Yelich got some hits. But he played like rookie that didn't care, not the team leader. Overran 2nd and got thrown out looking like vintage Villar. With 0 chance of reaching 3rd... absolute garbage baserunning. And then slow jogging and letting a hit drop in the 6th(?) inning of game 2, on a very catchable shallow pop up. I believe a run scored on that play or the next one? Devin Williams owed us big time for his wall punching antics of the past. He even sort of acknowledged this in his clinching day post game interview. 3 walks, a hit, 2 runs, and only 2 outs. The opposite of what he needed to do. Corbin Burnes. 2 absolute terrible pitches got crushed back to back, Burnes totally dropped the ball when we needed a solid Game 1 start after getting the Woodruff injury news. Maybe going out this way will make it easier to stomach him getting dealt, which is 100% the right move to make this offseason. Bases loaded 3 or 4 times, and only knocked in 1 run on Sal's sac fly. We got what we deserved. Absolutely brutal with RISP. Overall, it stings. We had the #1 pitching and defense in this year's playoffs. But our season-long kryptonite got us, streaky hitting and not being able to drive runs in when we needed it... with some help from our 2 "best" pitchers. We know the year or 2 ahead is going to be a transition year, it's sad that we weren't able to do more with this core. But I do think if Arnold plays his cards right, we're in decent shape for the future. 100% chance Burnes gets dealt this offseason, Adames probably should be (unless he signs a very team-friendly extension), and pre-injury Woodruff would too, but maybe we bring him back for half a season to show he's healthy to maximize a trade return. Arnold should be open to an overpay for Williams (2 years of control left), our window to win a pennant is not the next 1-2 years, but we can and should be competitive. Hopefully we can build around Chourio, Contreras, Frelick/Wiemer/Mitchell, Turang, Uribe, Peralta etc. in the years ahead. Solid returns for Burnes, Williams, Adames, and Woodruff should net us multiple top 100 prospects and loads of "decent floor/low ceiling" or "lottery ticket" types of prospects. It was a fun season, especially the 2nd half, too bad it ended how it did.

100% no discussion Burnes needs to be traded. The Central/wild card is still winnable without him. Dealing Burnes can net 3-4 good prospects, likely 1-2 top 50/100 prospects. Our farm needs it. 0% chance of him extending in Milwaukee, deal him for the long term health of the organization.

Serious question.... does getting (embarrassingly) swept by a team who barely snuck in as the last wild card count as: A) a fully qualified, no strings attached, bite of the apple B) a bite* of the apple C) a nibble of the apple D) a taste of the apple E) a whiff of the apple F) none of the above, please comment

After we swept the Padres and the Reds lost 3 of 4 in Arizona, Fangraphs shows the Brewers with an 85% chance to win the Central and 97% chance to make the postseason. Reds are down to a 1% chance to win the division, at 6 games back now. Winning 2 or 3 in Chicago could make things a lot easier down the stretch for us.

We all know Stearns is going to NY. Should have offered Stearns and a couple mid level prospects for Alonso. Cohen gets his guy a few months early to start the rebuild. We don't give up any top 5 prospects. Win - win!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Boy did some of the predictions in this thread age like milk (for our sake). :) In the 2 weeks since this article was written (Aug 9 - Aug 23), Adames batting line is: .319 avg / .596 slg / .980 ops. 4 HR in 12 games. Is the real Wily Adames back just in time for the postseason?