strawbossisevil

Pujols bomb. 10-1 St Louis. It's looking pretty certain that we'll still be up by 2 games after tonight.

Ya got me there. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Pinella rates much lower on the games "Yosted" statistic.

Grand Slam 6-0 Cards. Whoot! Thata boy Duncan!

He is in OPS, defense, SB. Floyd was an All Star how many years ago? He has like 6 HR on the season to Hart's 15. Floyd in his prime years was a better hitter than Hart is currently, but those prime years have long sense passed. Are we looking at numbers here? Or merely name recognition?

Well in Braun's "small sample", he's already hit as many HR as Ramirez has the entire season. So, even if it is a bit of a small sample, I think it's fair to put it in there. With Theriot we have a whole season's worth of statistics to look at. So looking at a hot streak, doesn't give us the big picture of what he is truely capable of doing. All we have from Braun is what he's done since coming up. And I simple used the numbers available. I'm not cherry picking the numbers that makes us look better or worse. Where as you seem to want to cherry pick by limiting the sample on Theriot so it fits your idea of whose better. Evaluating players, one whose on a hot streak vs another who is on a cold streak is rarely fair. If you want to know how they will do going forward, you have to look at the bigger sample.

I didn't factor in Defense, because you didn't ask for it. You asked for hitting and pitching. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

While Lee is a good 1st baseman. Going on OPS alone, Fielder is still about 60 points higher. He has been the better hitter to this point in the season. Like I pointed out above. Hardy has a far better OPS than Theriot (which is what I am using to base my evalutions). I don't think it's fair to only evaluate the players on a small sample. It's not "what have you done for me lately", but "what can I expect from you based on your season long stats" Braun already has as many HRs on the season as Ramirez and has an OPS about 100 points higher. Going on pure OPS along he has been better than Ramirez this season. As far as clutch hitting, I think that's been proven on this site to be something that is based on perception and not reality. He definitely isn't the defender that Ramirez is, but that isn't what I was using to compare them (OPS). Hart is far superior to Floyd or DeRosa in every point of his game. Plus he is OPSing higher (which I'll repeat was what I was using to measure the players). I forgot to put Gallardo/Sheets instead of just Gallardo. To this point of the season the Gallardo/Sheets combination has put up better numbers than Zambrano. And that is all that post was comparing, the facts as we have them up to this point in the season, and not perceived value. My bad, Yahoo didn't have him listed as on the team in their depth charts, obviously he is. I'll rearrange the players, but the Brewers will still come out ahead, as Villy is better than Howry. The Brewers bullpen is much better than the Cubs. How was I biased, all I used was the stats (the facts as they have played out so far this season.)

Well let's look at it position by position and the stats to this point of the season (OPS): Catcher: Estrada/Miller vs. Kendell/Hill (Advantage Brewers) 1st Base: Fielder vs. Lee (Advantage Brewers) 2nd Base: Weeks vs. Fontenot/DeRosa (Advantage Cubs) SS: Hardy vs. Theriot (Advantage Brewers) 3B: Braun vs. Ramirez (Advantage Brewers) LF: Jenkins/Mench vs. Soriano (Advantage Cubs) CF: Hall vs. Jones (Advantage Brewers) RF: Hart vs. Floyd/DeRosa (Advantage Brewers) So basically, the Brewers are better offensively at all but two positions in the lineup. Now pitching (using ERA): Gallardo/Sheets vs Zambrano (Advantage Brewers) Capuano vs Lilly (Advantage Cubs) Bush vs Hill (Advantage Cubs) Suppan vs Marshall (Advantage Cubs) Vargas vs Marquis (Advantage Cubs) Bullpen: Cordero vs. Dempster (Advantage Brewers) Turnbow vs Marmol (Advantage Cubs) Libebrink vs Wuertz (Advantage Brewers) Wise vs Ohman (Advantage Brewers) Shouse vs Eyre (Advantage Brewers) Villenueva vs Howry (Advantage Brewers) Basically, what I think this shows is that it isn't the Cubs' offense that sets itself apart from us, as our offense is superior at 7 of the 9 positions. Our Bullpen is also much better than the Cubs. Where we fall short is in our starting rotation. Adding Sheets back in there, makes it a lot closer, but the Cubs 3-5 pitchers are all very good, while ours are merely adequate.

Since this thread is about the Cubs, where on earth did Mike Fontenot come from. And can he be expected to continue the type of hitting he has put up to this point? Or is he playing a bit over his head? Edit: Rolen homers. 1-0 Cards.

I thought since the Brewers have the night off, we can keep track of the Chicago/St. Louis game here. Lineups: A. Soriano lf R. Theriot ss D. Lee 1b A. Ramirez 3b C. Floyd rf M. Fontenot 2b J. Jones cf J. Kendall c J. Marquis p D. Eckstein SS J. Edmonds CF A. Pujols 1B C. Duncan LF J. Encarnacion RF S. Rolen 3B Y. Molina C A. Miles 2B B. Looper P Edit: Ugh, guy on third and one out and the Cards fail to bring him home. Not a good start.

I just want to wish Inman the best in the Padres organization. It was always fun watching his box scores over the past few years, and reading his quotes. That said, if he really turns into what he's expected to be (4-5 type pitcher), we really don't need him. In 2009 (the year he'd likely come up) our rotation could include: Sheets (if we can get him to sign an extension - hopefully done this offseason) Gallardo (top of rotation talent, and cheap) Capuano (entering his last year of Arby- solid middle of rotation starter) Villenueva (entering Arby for the first time, solid middle of rotation starter) Parra (cheap pre-Arby, with top to middle of the rotation talent) Bush (another solid middle of rotation starter, Arby through '10) Suppan (by this point will probably be the #5 starter, and he'll be an above average one) Vargas (solid #5, in his last year of Arby) Jackson (#5 possibly, needs to show improvement to get here, but he's a possibility as well. While you can never have enough starting pitching, if Inman truely becomes a bottom of the rotation starter, he'd have to leap frog a number of other pitchers who may be more established and equally deserving. I think what this trade does, is it provides Melvin with the draft picks he needs in order to stock up for another wave of prospects that will arrive in Milwaukee when our current players begin to price themselves out of our budget. And if all Inman becomes is a 4 or 5 starter, we stand a good chance in finding one of those in the draft with the picks.

Thanks for setting us all straight. You are right, right now he is average/slightly above average in innings pitched for full-time closers. Now imagine adding all the innings that people like you want him to pitch, and suddenly that "average/above average" amount of work, becomes abuse. We aren't blowing his arm out, because we are restraining ourselves from using him in every single difficult situation that crops up. We have a formula that limits his innings to a reasonable amount, to add to that formula only risks injury. Anyone who has kept track of Cordero's career knows one thing. The more the guy the pitches, the less effective his pitches become. This happened in Texas at the beginning of last year. It happened right before the All Star Break this year. I'd rather we have the well rested "lights out" Cordero. Then the mediocre pitcher that he becomes when he gets pushed to his limits.

Agree to disagree then. I'd say pitching in half a teams games in the past week +, as being about as worked as a pitcher should be. If you want to work him over that, I'd consider it somewhat unwise. Not to mention, we are about to play a whole bunch of games in a row here. Using him tonight would have made it two nights in a row (and may have prevented him from pitching tomorrow, when we might need him in a game where we are actually winning). Yost has a formula that gets Cordero a reasonable amount of innings (over which would be overuse). I'm amazed at how many people fail to realize that you can't use the best RP all the time. You use your formula and you stick with that. I've pointed out a number of reasons why he shouldn't have pitched tonight, the fact that you disagree with one of my points doesn't make the entire argument invalid. Cordero has shown time and time again that the more innings he pitches, the more his "stuff" suffers. It's best for the Brewers when he is used as sparingly as possible. And who knows if Cordero was even available tonight. Yost remarked earlier in the season, that he has his relievers give thumbs up/down/side depending on their availability. Perhaps Cordero didn't feel he could go today, and thus could only pitch if absolutely necessary. We just aren't privileged to this information. We can sit here second guessing Yost forever, but the truth of the matter is he did exactly what every other manager in the league would have done as well. And I'm willing to bet that there is a reason why those managers have their jobs, and we fans don't ( "Dusty Bakering" our better pitchers being a common mistake that we would make).

And he had pitched in four games straight before he got a few days off. He's been as worked as any of our RPs, and like you said, he pitched last night as well. The allstar "break" wasn't much of one, since Cordero pitched in the All Star game. So basically, he didn't have a break from pitching during the All Star game, and he's pitched in over half of the games since the break. The point is this, using him at that point didn't make much since because you could end up using an inning of your best RP in a game that you could end up losing. An inning that could be far more valuable later in the season, in a game where a victory (not just a tie) is on the line. I'm all for being careful with Cordero, because without him, our bullpen would fall apart. It is convenient that there seems to be the idea that the Brewers terrible hitting would have somehow changed in the 13th, had Cordero been brought in. There are no guarantees that they would have scored in that inning either, and then you have the same issue. It was Balfour's chance to sink or swim, and he sank like a stone.

Like I said, abuse in previous seasons does not make it ok for this season. He's definitely seen a lot of work in the past week as well (think of all the close games in the Arizona series). And as was pointed out, you can't pitch him in every tight situation because you'll run into one of those nearly every game. All signs pointed toward playing wait and see with Cordero tonight. Recent work, amount of IP this season (in comparison to many closers he has pitched quite a few innings and that doesn't include all the times he's warmed up and hasn't gone in), not having a lead. It made sense to give him the night off, unless he was needed. Like I said, if he pitched every time people on this site wanted him to, his arm would have fallen off by now. I doubt any Major League manager would have done differently.

I think he would have been in there too. The point I was making is that we have been successful enough this year, that our closer has been using all of his available innings in the "normal" save situations, if not abused somewhat. That's why I think it was wise to only use him if that situation came up. The formula keeps his innings manageable and prevents him from being overused and abused. So the fact that he's been abused in the past, and somehow managed to make it through without an injury is somehow an excuse to abuse him this year and expect the same? 40 innings is a lot for a closer at this point in the season, and that of course doesn't count all the times he's warmed up and not come in. One of the reason he started struggling in Texas was because he was overused, and the same things started to happen before the All Star Break this year. We need a healthy Cordero if we are going to compete for the playoffs, and that means limiting his innings as much as possible so he is as effective as possible.

He did have a couple of good seasons. I think he put up an OPS over 900 a couple of times. Most MLB players don't do that, so he's been decent. That said, he seems to be falling off here quite a bit. I think his future will be elsewhere as well. I think they'll let him go and use the money to offer either Cordero or Sheets an extension.

It's not nonsensical since you can't run your closer out every night as I pointed out. He can't be used on a nightly basis, only when there is a tight lead to be held on to (or a tie game at home). He's already overworked pitching in just those circumstances, and now you want to add more innings to him? That's setting yourself up for an injury IMO. If he hadn't pitched in a week, that would be one thing. But we just got done with a week of close games, in which he had to pitch quite a bit. Giving him a night off wasn't as dumb as you are making it out to be.

I agree with the Save your Closer rule when you are on the road. The truth of the matter is, if you do end up scoring in the top of the next inning, you will still have to pitch a scrub the inning afterward. So there is really little difference. You can't run your closer out there every night. If Cordero was run out there as much as many of you would like, he'd be on the DL right now. I mean, how many times this season have we heard this same line "Yost should have brought in Cordero." My guess is it's probably been about a dozen times.. Add another 12 innings to Cordero's already heavy work load, and we'd have an injured closer. Just goes to show, why I'm glad we have Ned Yost as our manager and not Dusty Baker (or posters who want to overuse pitchers like Dusty would do).

We don't need to "keep up with the Cubs", it's the Cubs playing catchup here, not us. We have the talent to do well, we are just going through a bit of a mid season rut. Nearly all of our players, except for Braun, are slumping right now. We will be adding Sheets and Hall in the next few days/weeks, that is a big upgrade right there. While the chance for an injury is there, it's not worth trading away what we've built up for a one time run at the title. The playoffs are such a crapshoot anyway.

I hope Estrada gets benched for a week after that display. My goodness, what on earth was he thinking? He single handedly cost us the game. You can't have laziness on your roster, especially with the game tied in the 12th. Johnny must be brain dead or something. He is officially my least favorite Brewer.

I'm assuming he met this season since his innings are already quite high (if we are planning on easing him back after his injury). It's well documented as well, that Parra doesn't warm up quickly, and would be best used as a starter.

I think he could probably be a solid 2 or 3 at his peak. The thing that is really impressive is the Brewer's depth at Starting Pitcher: List of pitchers and their ceilings: Sheets (1) Gallardo (1) Capuano (2 or 3) Parra (2 or 3) Villenueva (2 or 3) Bush (2 or 3) Suppan (3 or 4) Vargas (4 or 5) Obviously this offseason will be pretty interesting to see what we do with all of this depth. I imagine we could see some of it used in trades down the line.

Hmm, I must have missed some news about him. What is his injury? Anything significant that we should be worried about?

When will LaPorta begin playing games for us? I've been watching the link reports, and he still hasn't played a game yet, to my knowledge. I really want to see what this guy can do and I really want to see him push his ways through the minors and add yet another impact bat to our offense.