Brian the Automator

[ There are 30+ teams in a 100+ year old league. Batting coaches get canned when the team needs a wake up call. ] I'm not saying it doesn't happen all the time. I'm asking, is it effective?.. especially when the problem isn't that the team isn't hitting as a whole, when the problem is that the team is hot & cold. If it's the "do something, do ANYTHING, it's time to panic!" approach, I just don't see the payoff. Payroll isn't an excuse, it's a reason. If we took your philosophy, we'd probably have a new set of coaches and managers each year (excluding perhaps Mike Maddux as of recently). I'm not going to cry foul if Wynegar gets canned. I don't think it's inhumane, and he still gets to keep getting paid through the end of his contract. However, I think there's an equal chance that the Brewers get WORSE as it is they get better. What's worse than having Butch Wynegar as your hitting coach? Having the guy be your hitting coach that every other team passed up on... including those that are hitting much worse than the Brewers.

[ Have we learned nothing from the collective thoughts of our little group? ] Why, is there a large sample size of the Brewers jettisoning coaches and making some kind of big-time improvements? Other than '82 (which had a team full of VERY talented players), I can't think of such a situation.

[ ......just because royster sucked doesn't mean changes shouldnt be attempted. ] I think it provides evidence to the contrary.

[ Pro sports coachs are tossed into the fire mid season just to sjake things up. Sacfificial lambs. Whatever. ] http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0418/1406752_200X150.jpg It's not always positive.

[ Why did we lose? RISP again? Thanks. ] My reasons, in order of importance: 1) RISP 2) Donnelly's bad idea 3) Santana not being terribly effective as of late

Nelson Cruz 3-3 and Corey Hart with 3 SB? Anders34 saw a decent game.

Nice to see Salome hitting again tonight. Not nice to see him with his 5th error of the season. However, it was nice to see him pick off a dude at 1B.

[ Well......Hell, God, Crap! Just a few choice words that have allready been used here this fine evening.... ] None of which are banned words, nor were they personal attacks. If you're going to call me out, next time you'll have to do better. [ It may or may not be Butch's fault, but the dude needs to get canned. I'm really glad that my workplace doesn't fire people because things may or may not be their fault. That would be pretty brutal. [ He gets the shaft, but to bad. Lets start hitting. ] Seriously. What's going to happen here? I can just imagine Lyle Overbay walking into Miller Park before the game and hearing that Butch Wynegar got fired and saying, "You know what, maybe I better start hitting consistently now". Maybe JJ Hardy will be surprised and say "Wow, they fired Butch, so they must think we ought to start hitting better". Heck, maybe they can pry Jim Lefebvre away from his "blue stuff" infomercials and re-energize the lineup. Maybe Rod Carew can sit on the bench with his dull stare. Firing Wynegar would really just be a move to satisfy some of the fans, in my opinion. It's just a charade to cover up the real problem. That problem either being that the players aren't living up to their potential, or that they just weren't talented in the first place.

[ Why do you walk intentionally walk the guy to load the bases when you are going to play short and second in? ] To have a force out a home plate... in that situation, you really can't assume a double play is going to save you, especially with the defense having some 'off nights' recently.

[ I'd love, just once, to hear someone say a team didn't look like they cared after a win. ] I present, EXHIBIT A: http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20040930/olerud_81269.jpg http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ I'm just trying to follow the bumpy trail of "caring", "being fiery", and "wanting to win", and seeing where it leads to actually winning games more than actual player performance and talent does. I'm intrigued. ] I think there's something to it. I think about my own performance on the job. While ultimately, my talent and performance leads to my success, some days I just don't care. While each hitter is a professional, and I think for the most part they give it their best effort, there can be a team funk. However, I don't think this is the case right now. I think it's a case of facing a decent Marlins team, a decent Braves team, and trying to do too much with RISP.

[ If we were all in a pub, there would probably a big time brawl going on. ] I'd like it if we could all beat each other with nerf bats, and then buy each other beers afterwards.

[ This line of reasoning is just idiotic, for lack of a better term. ] Yeah, you're probably going to want to find a better term http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .

[ No doubt Brian. But how do you solve that problem? ] In my opinion, Yost gets a closed door meeting and reams the hell out of his players. Then Wynegar plays good cop and tells the players to not try to do too much in clutch situations. I think it's into "self fulfilling prophecy" stage. [ By the way, does that avatar have something to do with the group Gorillaz? ] Yeah, i'm a fan. I was a big fan when one of the members was in Blur, one of my favorite bands.

[ Brett, to many an eye they LOOK like they dont care. ] Oh Hoffy, that's only because Lyle Overbay is actually an android.

[ Your right. The number of hits a team gets should be the deciding factor in determining how good the batting coach is. In fact, we had more hits so I think we should protest the result of the game. We had the better offense! We should have be granted a victory! Lets start a letter writing campaign! ] Scoop, just admit that the offense is underpeforming in the clutch and you want Wynegar to be the sacrificial lamb. If you had a bunch of guys swinging for the fences and not making contact, or a bunch of guys taking a bunch of called third strikes, I could see the argument that Wynegar has something to do with the team's offensive woes. However, Wynegar didn't wave Jenks home from 3rd. He didn't tell a .276 hitter who's hitting his career norms to strand 4 guys. If there were some _consistency_ to the Brewers' hitting woes other than they suck in the clutch, I would totally be in agreement with you.

[ Gryboski, Boyer, Brower, Betemit, Francoeur, and Langerhans? ] Sounds like the Cudahy women's bowling all-star team.

[ FU FSN... ] Just a healthy reminder: p092.ezboard.com/fbrewers...=576.topic Also, using creative spellings to avoid the cuss filter will result in warning, then dismissal. This isn't your "official warning" or some crap, but just try to avoid it in the future.

While Santana gave up the winning run, I think this one is all about anti-clutch hitting. Santana gave up two ground ball hits. That kind of crap happens. Damian Miller was the prime goat tonight.

[ when does the friggen hammer drop? someone needs to get canned. ] My vote goes to donnelly. Geoff Jenkins is not fast, Andruw Jones has a fantastic arm, and there was only 1 out.

[ our offense rocks. Wynager rules. ] Oh for God's sake, Scoop. They had 10 hits. Butch can't make people not leave guys on base.

Ned, you wear the BLUE jerseys now.

[ Is putting Helms at third suppose to be a defensive replacement? ] NO. YOU'RE a defensive replacement.* * there's a joke in there.

[ Brian, I dont want to fight. I just want to ring Jenkins' neck. ] That is certainly something we can agree on! [ But I am completely befuddled why someone can not look at the lineups and say 'oh, my, we are not the outshown'. I am befuddled, why a number of people will want to show how I am wrong and the Brewers are bad (or worse than Atlanta). ] In this case, i'm sure it was prompted by you specifically singling out 3B as a big misatch on Hall vs. Marte. I suppose that would be like making a Luis Rivas vs. Rickie Weeks comparison in the same manner, if Weeks had a handful of at-bats during a previous call-up and struggled. [ And, Brian, you now play the stathead game as well. If I compare MLB stats to MLB stats, you say 'oh, but Joe Blow delved into AAA stats to counter your argument'. ] Not really. It would depend on the sample size. If i'm comparing 249 at-bats to 35 at-bats, it's not apples-to-apples so I would look at the rest of that player's season one level down, especially for a prospect of Marte's stature. No, you can't compare AAA to MLB at-bats directly, but they can supplement your case. It would be dishonest to look at Marte's .600 OPS and think that's all he's going to be, just as it would be dishonest to think Marte would just be punishing the ball at this levle. But either case is a valid argument, and it's an ad hominem attack to call someone a stathead, equate him to a teenager, and then just write off the argument. [ C'mon, Brian are you the teacher here and the pupils are trying to get good marks from you and you say 'good boy, Joe Blow, well done' and 'bad HOFFY'. Be careful Brian your outstanding job on this site does not go to your head. It would be shame for people to think the 'boys are back'. ] The 'boys' have never left, and are always where they have been. I think it's more the case that you've mellowed out. I really don't WANT to be the teacher, as my predictions don't always turn out that well... and people take me to task all the time, and i've conceded many an argument. It's not about that. It's about the argument that a statheads' point of view is somewhat invalid.... just like if you had "joe old-school coach" who often dismisses the idea of stats, but has a decent track record of judging players by how they carry themselves and by watching the play on the field and someone told him he was an idiot. Both extremes have logical valid arguments, and those need to be debated, not the methodology. [ Onto the game, I sure hope these guys can steel themselves, but they sure are showing their old tendancies. ] God hates the Milwaukee Brewers.

[ wow, davis is really impressing me this late in the game ] He's finally starting to pitch like a #2, instead of pitching like #2.