1e Corbeau

Again, I don't "know" that those teams showed interest. Just because Hart might make/have made sense for their roster needs and that a few reporters speculated they might be interested, that doesn't make it fact. Also, I'm not sure what your definition of "on the trading blocks [sic]" is, but I'm guessing Melvin would listen on any player, but only pull the trigger if he feels it's beneficial to his club. To me, "on the block" means a player needs to be moved; Hart still has a year of arby, so he can be moved during the offseason or by the next deadline--IF Melvin feels he *has* to move him. Regardless of if any of those teams actually called Melvin on Hart, none of us have any realistic idea of what those teams offered. So, the Braves were interested and offered Melky and Kawakami and demanded we pay Hart's remaining salary. The Rays were interested and offered an A ball reliever. The Giants were interested and offered Aaron Rowand, with us paying his contract and Hart's. Does anyone recommend taking any of those deals? It *matters* what the offers were, and none of us have any idea of what the offers were. To be clear, I would love to see Hart moved for a solid #3 with a few years of arby. But, that doesn't mean that anyone is willing to offer that. And, it certainly doesn't mean that anyone has offered that. And, I'd venture that we're always in opinion here, as each one of us interprets information in our unique ways. But that what makes participating in this discussion--and speculation--so rewarding. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif For instance, I'm still intrigued by the apparent closeness of a deal at last year's deadline that would have given us a blockbuster ace, per Macha. Was it Halladay? Felix? We'll likely never know, but it's fun to dream! It's when the speculation bleeds into making evaluations (something all of us have the potential to do) that my "speculation" radar goes off.

And therein is the problem. There a few rumors of what was "reportedly offered," but these are all rumors, usually originating from a single source, often as speculation (or perhaps fabricated)--rumors that are rehashed and rehashed through various media channels (digital, print, television, all with varying levels of "professionalism") until they eventually start to exist as concrete offers that were turned down. For instance, Phil Rogers (who has a track record of turning speculation into his daily copy quota, IMO) tweeted that the Rays were interested in Hart and things were "heating up." No source, no explanation, no follow up. Less than 140 characters led to an unnamed source who said the Rays were offering Davis or Moore, with Sweeney thrown in. And Hart for Sanchez? Who was the source on that? Hart for Bumgarner? All speculation. Fielder for Hudson, Beckham, Viciedo, Morel, the retroactive rights to Alex Fernandez? Just because the Brewers are scouting another MLB team? MLB teams are constantly scouting one another. I agree that I would prefer to see Hart moved for a #3-ish SP, but to hold fanciful rumors of what Melvin might have been offered for Hart as some sort of measuring stick seems unrealistic or counterproductive to measuring a GM's performance. Free agent signings and trades that were made seem like a better measuring stick, IMO.

Spoken like a true Blues fan. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Sure, it's exactly the same. If the Yankees had a salary cap and made really smart moves to acquire huge talent in late rounds of the draft (within that salary cap) that no other teams identify, the best front office in the league, were in the Midwest, it's exactly the same. The Wings lived through some really lean years for a long time. I'm sorry that they happened to peak when the Blues were last a decent team... I mean, Fuhr/CuJo, Demitra, Turgeon, Tkachuk, Weight, and Pronger were pretty good. It's too bad that they never peaked together in a conference without Detroit and Colorado. Too. Bad. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Thanks for that Stevie Y blue-line slapper in the top corner in a game seven OT, though. That's a great memory. Like when Pronger tried to cheap shot Yzerman, but missed and hurt himself.

^^^ Three incredibly valid points, areacodes. No way do we need a quantity-over-quality deal for Prince; in fact, we need one or two high-ceiling blue-chippers for Prince, not fodder. (And Beckham is a blue-chipper, in my eyes; Hudson looks like a back-end thrower with an odd delivery and 3/4 slot who falls off towards 1B. He worked 91-93 with little control yesterday and his secondary stuff did not show much.) As for Haren, X you know that he had a no-trade list that the Brewers were likely near the top of (Detroit for sure; Pitt, KC, I'd guess, plus 5 more--likely MKE is on there), so Melvin could call until his ear fell off or he lost his voice. If Haren wouldn't waive it, it doesn't matter. Of course, we could have blown away that offer and eaten Qualls/Snider, but it's all academic at this point. And, I think that the audience component is often overlooked. Most casual fans who show up 1-2/year and don't spend hours on message boards may very well have that "same 'ol" reaction if the Brewers trade away one of their few true superstars in franchise history, regardless if not trading him is incredibly short-sighted. Ticket sales is a big thing to Attanasio, understandably. Here's hoping that we see someone willing to grossly overpay for Prince and Hart, so we don't have to have a DBacks fans' reaction...

Using IE might make your eyes bleed, but trying to dev websites that display correctly in IE6 makes my ears bleed. :-) I started using Chrome a bit late (early this summer) and it's become my default for most actions. I still have Safari 5 up as a secondary browser and FF 3.6.8 is currently installing. Chrome seems fastest on my MacBook (2.1 GHz Intel Core Duo; 2 GB RAM; 10.5.8), though I like Safari's new Reader view (it'll be great when I can sync b/w Apple devices, like an Instapaper or ReadItLater fuctionality). FF I keep open to manage some unique work-related logins up; I also like it's built-in RSS reader, something that Chrome lacks (I'm sure there's a plug-in...). Have never tried the proxy route. How is Opera? Also, refreshing that IE doesn't have 70% usage based on this sample, though I bet most who use IE aren't interested in thinking about browser usage. That's why they're usig IE! *_*

Welcome to Pro Hockey fandom! As other's have mentioned, despite the fact that they're the closest team, I found it impossible to cheer for the Blackhawks, as they're from Chicago and I was raised to dislike all things Chicago, especially sports. I got into hockey when I started playing in the early 90s, so I was looking for a pro team, too. This was back when the NHL was on FOX and the Fox Valley was assigned the Red Wings as their default "home" team. Plus, their biggest rival is the Blackhawks. That ended up being a perfect fit, as they were (and continue to be) a great team, with a great GM, an amazing history, a knack for player development and an outstanding owner. It also didn't hurt that they've won a few cups recently. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif They currently have my favorite Badger ever, Brian Rafalski, and Brendan Smith should see Detroit late this upcoming season. I'd recommend them: games are televised pretty frequently; their fans travel and represent better than anyone in the NHL (similar to the Packers in the NFL); they have an amazing history (Howe, Delvecchio, Lindsay, the fabled "Prodcution line;" Stevie Y, Nick Lidstrom, the best defenseman in the past 30 years, etc.); and they're always in it to win it. (And Mike Eaves kid, Patrick, is on the team, too. Though, like his brother, Ben, he went to BC...) Biggest plus: UW and Detroit wear the exact same uniforms. Good luck!

I like how you're thinking here, X. With reading about the DBacks wanting to move Haren before his next start on Tuesday, I wonder if we could move Fielder, Hart, and maybe McGehee for prospects (MLB ready or otherwise), then flip some of those pieces or some of ours to AZ for Haren. Of course, it wouldn't be to compete this year, but he's locked up through 2012. He does have limited no-trade protection, I believe. Still, the Yankees are offering what seems like an unimpressive package with back-end rotation ceiling and players still a few years away. Plus, the Brewers are in a situation where their payroll (if Hart and Fielder are moved) could be as low as $39M next year, so they don't need AZ to pick up any part of Haren's $33M over 11-12. We could even eat part of Qualls or Snyder, potentially, to reduce the talent going to AZ. Something like Fielder & McGehee to CWS for Hudson, Backham, and Viciedo/Morel; Hart to TB for Wade Davis. If AZ wants two arms and another piece for Haren, you could flip Hudson, and a #3/4-ceiling A ball pitcher (Hecky, Scarpetta, Peralta) plus a fringy bat like Green or Komatsu to AZ. If you take all of Haren's contract responsibility, you might get away with less. If you take any part of Qualls or Snyder, you might be able to substantially downgrade the second arm to an Anundsen/Bucci/Fiers/Lasker/Howell type. Doubtful, sure—but Haren, Yo, Wolf, Davis, Parra would be a heck of an improvement and the cash is there.

Per MLBTR: Love that DM is trying to push past Hudson as a #3/4, which, from memory, has been mentioned about Hudson. Toss in Viciedo and Beckham and we might *deal* with Hudson. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Still, it does raise the issue that Prince is our best hope to get a #1/2 ceiling pitching prospect. I don't know that Kenny has one of those... Does he?

Interesting comp with Gindl, which underlies why I wouldn't mind Neal! And, I think that collecting as many COFs as possible will help cover a potential Hart/Braun to 1st, as well as give us a better chance of having one of those COF bats in A-AA (Kh. Davis, Komatsu, Ke. Davis, Gindl) have enough power to be adequate at the MLB level. It seems like we're strong in CF (Cain, Schafer), but the corner spots are a little more questionable. I do think Cain might have the bat to exist in RF, eventually. Getting Bumgarner would be great, but I'd prefer a bit more upside out of the secondary pieces, which is why I see Neal and Main as the best possible inclusions. And Main has potential, but a high "bust" rate, I think.

That's intriguing, though I'd prefer Neal in replacement for Ishikawa and (1 of)Main/Joaquin. So Bumgarner, Neal, Main/Joaquin. Ishikawa looks like he has a great glove and could step in right away when Prince leaves, but Hart could slide over, too, if they don't move him. Or maybe Seattle would move Branyan for cash with Smoak in the picture. Too bad the Rays don't seem like a match, since they have more attractive pieces.

Edit: on second thought, this is a thread about "The trade value of Prince Fielder," not Gomez's defense, so I'll kill my comment.

Yeah, I saw that one. I was just wondering if there was a different rumor, one in which Melvin actually was on record as saying he preferred pitching that was further away. And, of course, it's fun to speculate! Heck, Keith Law and Buster Olney get paid to make up "rumors". http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif IMO, if the Rays are actually offering Davis or Moore, I slightly prefer Davis, as he's shown results in higher levels, still has a lot of controlled salary years, and we need pitching now--not just in the future. Davis projects higher than a Bush-type #4/5, based on the reports of his stuff. That could set us up with a rotation of Yo, Wolf, Davis, Parra and Butler/Rivas/Rogers/Narvy for net year (or perhaps a better alternative depending on other deals we might make). Sure, we'll need pitching in 2-years, and we'd be lucky if any of Odorizzi/Scarpetta/Arnett (gasp!)/Heckathorn/Covey reach the big leagues in an orderly manner, much less hit their projected ceiling. But, if any combo of them do, then you can have the luxury of moving one of the more established arms for more prospects. Plus, if Hart is the only move, we can internally replace him with Cain/Gamel/Lawrie. That might be an upgrade defensively and offensively. And I'd like to believe that adding Davis to the current rotation might be enough of a bump to sneak into toying with contention.

RHP Cody Scarpetta with some (mixed) love for his 21 IP scoreless streak from prospect talking heads today on Twitter:

BA's Jim Callis tweets about Covey's $2M asking price:

I must have missed this, but when/where did Melvin make this comment? Can he comment on other teams' players? Isn't that tampering? You write "hint"--so maybe he didn't mention Moore or Davis by name, but I'd certainly appreciate reading or hearing the context of his comment myself. Thanks for the info!

I listen to the Radiolab podcast from WNYC. It's categorized as "science," I think, but it's remarkable for it's storytelling. The hosts, Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, are hilarious an present themselves as genuine and emotionally and intellectually engaged with their topics, which cover the most diverse subjects, yet always manage to converge in an ultimately rewarding manner. The show is also on NPR affiliates, so you might have caught it, if you listen to the low FMs. The podcast offers bi-weekly-ish short updates, mostly audio, but sometimes video sneaks in. Incredible production values, though, especially sound editing. I'm interested in digital culture, technology and education, so my listening skews in that direction. I listen to the BBC's Digital Planet almost every week, Technophiles (which is made locally by some friends of mine), and the ARGNetcast for immersive gaming/transmedia news. Others I sometimes catch are anything from CurrentTV (Rotten Tomatoes, InfoMania, Vanguard) and TV on the Internet.

Regardless the veracity of the Minor "rumor," I hope that Sabean finds it truthful, as, to me, Minor is closer to Bumgarner than Sanchez. Now, we need a serious Padres rumor...

jackalope, I'm curious as to why you think Sanchez is an improvement on Parra, particularly a "major upgrade"? And, what makes him a "realistic start at rebuilding" a rotation? He has what, two years of arbitration left? I guess I don't see Parra and Sanchez as being very different. Sanchez has a year more of service time, so he's a bit more expensive at the same age, with a tick better BB and K rate over the last 3+ years. Sanchez's H/9 are WHIP are better, for sure, but their FIP and xFIP are a wash. Plus, Sanchez is a flyball pitcher who is helped by a lower HR/FO %, likely from being in the NL West. Sanchez is trending better this year, especially with WHIP, but, as noted repeatedly, he still has a pretty substantial BB/9. That said, I like Manny Parra and think he's the type of potential upside we should hold onto and give every chance possible while he's still under control and we have room on the 25 man. The question for me is if I'm the Brewers would I trade Manny Parra for, say, Josh Willingham, Ryan Church, Nate McLouth, Ryan Ludwick, or Jason Kubel (the best of Hart's similar batters through at b-r.com) and NOT feel like you just ripped off a team? I wold feel like I got a steal, even considering the premium for pitching--which is why I hope the FO holds out for more than Sanchez. Bumgarner is likely a pipe dream, but Wheeler is far enough off where the Giants might not feel immediate pain at dealing him. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Not sure about the option, but I think that the potential for "losing" an extra year in the minors to work on control--or anything else, for that matter--is far less important than, say, a lifetime ban. I'm guessing there'd be a lot more "regret" in the latter situation. And Oeltjen is exactly the kind of guy you can sign in the offseason as a minor league free agent... I doubt Melvin saw much drawback to dropping a 27-year old max 4th OF with poor defense in order to protect arguably his highest-ceiling pitching prospect, especially considering the context of our system.

TH tweets that the Brewers and RHP Jimmy Nelson (2nd rounder from Alabama) have come to terms. No bonus info, yet.

Per TH, Interesting that Morris goes to Wisconsin right away. With Kentrail Davis and Morris added, seems like Kris Davis, D'Vo, and Ke. Davis round out that outfield, with Dennis the odd man out for the time being, pending more moves.

I've got to agree with TLB and Crew07 regarding the interpretation of that quote. If they thought he good play SS, he'd be playing SS for two very big reasons: SS have a higher value than 2B. If Gennett could play SS, they would play him there to maximize his value. He is more blocked at 2B than at SS. 2B has Weeks, Farris (who could profile as a stop-gap or utility type), and Lawrie (who projects as a premium bat). SS has Escobar and... Josh Prince, who seems fringy-er than Farris at the moment. And, generally speaking, average defensive 2B does mean inadequate defense at SS. Guys move from SS to 2B because they don't have the range for SS or the arm to throw from the hole or left side in general. Hence, the first point: SS have more value than 2B because SS is harder to play and less players have the skillset required to play SS. Regarding the quote, as Crew07 notes, Isom is likely phrasing Gennett's defensive ability in a positive manner. He could say, "I see him as being an inadequate major league short stop, defensively." Instead, he says, "I see him as being an average major league second baseman, defensively." As far as quickest path to the bigs, despite being blocked by more bodies at 2B, it would take Gennett far more reps at SS to get his defense to a point that he could crack the 25-man and, more likely, he wouldn't be able to field SS adequately after an infinite amount of reps. Thus, his fastest path to Milwaukee is at 2B; he likely would never get there as a SS.

Again, I'm just guessing on what a bonus for Gibson might be, but here's my methodology for $1-2M: BA had him ranked #148: last year's #148 got SS Daniel Fields [6-180 DET] got $1.6M (but should be noted he is a Detroiter, so may have gotten a bump for the local angle) colby mentioned he heard some teams had him ranked as the top HS LHP; last year's top LHP bonuses: Matzek [1-11 COL, $3.9M (above slot)], Purke [1-14 TEX, DNS], James [1-18 FLA, $1.7M], Skaggs [1s-40 LAA, $1.0M] Analogies suck, but I'm using one, so I'll declare it for context: Whitefish Bay HS LHP Kevin James [9-289, TB] got $0.625M and doesn't seem as highly regarded as Gibson's reports are (BA didn't have him ranked, for instance) and his commitment to BC seemed weaker than Gibson's commitment to Florida Interesting that you bring up Gennett, though, as BA had him 154. Howell was 105 and Hall 134 on the same list, which would put the number under $1.0M by those comps. I'm likely projecting some wishful thinking, but Gibson's comments from the post-draft story make it seem like he has a number that he'd sign for, that the Brewers know what it is, and he's willing to forego the Florida commitment if the Brewers meet it. And, as colby points out on page 1 of this thread, the Brewers don't seem to have any tough signs in the early rounds. Keeling looks like the first challenge, maybe Bates, but it sounds like the Brewers have a good idea on him.

I, too, would like to see them sign Gibson, but if he's truly a potential top HS LHP with a commitment to Florida, it's going to cost a lot more than $400k. I'd think more in the $1 - $2 M range, but that's a guess, too.

Per Adam McCalvy, Jeffress will work out of the 'pen for the T-Rats, starting on Sunday. His shift to the pen, in an effort to keep him more engaged on a day-to-day basis, is for at least the remainder of the year. Ash couldn't say about next year. All in all, a major downgrade in value, moving from SP to RP. But, if it gets him to the 40-man sooner and he can continue to work through his "issues," then it's a good move. He can always be stretched out next or a subsequent year. edit: beat me to it, brewjihad! I'll keep the post up, since there's a bit of commentary attached to it http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif