Fatter than Joey

In my worst case scenario over the next 2 days, the Cubs get Jr. and the Brewers sign Yost to an extention. Hopefully the Brewers pick up a bat.

Yost -- I am not sure yelling stupid things, is better than saying them. That said I hope someone tears into him for having Wise pitch to Pujols. Prince is doing OK -- He is hitting less HRs -- but his OPS is still decent. Jenkins -- He has had a stacked deck all year facing RHP. I'm afraid this (June-July) is about as good as he will get. I think the only thing that could improve is if Yost starting PHing for him late in the game when LHPs are brought in. Suppan -- Incrementally better. Sheets -- I hope Sheets gets back -- Effectively I dont think that will translate into wins, as he will be replacing Yo. If Sheets replaced Soup, Cappy or Bush in the rotation -- then you may see some wins.

We had 2 hits against an 0-10 pitcher with a 6.+ ERA -- that is like running out of quarters against Glass Joe.

Ned Yost challenges Albert Pujols

"It's never a tendency to shut it down," Yost said. "It wasn't like we weren't trying, we just shut down and were having a little bit of a party in between innings." No more partying Ned

He was with the Brewers when they went to the WS in 82 as a player and with Bobby Cox as a coach for plenty of pennant races with the Braves. How much territory does he have left to cover before you realize he's been in this situation before? I'm sorry but I fail to equate being a back-up catcher and a bench coach one in the same with managing. They are very different. Furthermore just because he was in those situations does not ensure he learned anything, or was a positive factor. I wonder how Brewer fans would react if he won the WS with Milwaukee then went to a team were the fans appreciated him more. I certainly would give him all the credit he deserved, if he produced a winning season, let alone a WS.

They've scored plenty of runs. At points in the year -- sure -- not so much in this last month, which is the context of what the chat was.

It's comments like this that prove some fans dont have any frickin clue. Yeah -- Please elaborate on your thoughts here. Otherwise I am afraid some people may see it as the rantings of an idiot.

They are third in runs scored... what's the problem? It's just skewed perception, IMO. Well -- the context of this chat was done with people reacting to the Brewers losing games and ground to the Cubs recently. In July we were 13th in OBP and 11th in runs. In June we were 1st in OBP and 1st in runs. I think people see a correlation with OBP and runs, and mistakenly label that as "small ball". I don't think the Brewers need to bunt more, I think though they need to do a better job of getting on base, and perhaps that is the skewed perception you are referring to. I am not a fan of small-ball except in extreme situations (like Estrada trying to get a sac-fly on Monday) -- I am -- however-- Down with the OBP, every last homie.

I think that now Wise has gotten the taste of blood, he will be able to throw with both arms.

I think SD got "craptastic" (your word of choice) value for a great middle reliever. This is strictly your opinion. Theres a difference between teammates being complimentary of a former teammate after a trade and teammates being downright pissed off after a trade. They were downright pissed. I am sure you do not know this to be fact -- and even if it is, so what? -- Hoffman and Wells are not GMs. It was the greatest trade melvin has made since he's been here in my opinion. Wow -- if you are willing to say this, before the guy has thrown a handful of innings, I think your opinion speaks for itself. Saying you like/don't like the trade is one thing, declaring the trade the "greatest ever" or an "unmitigated failure" at this point in time is nothing but premature. He gave up nothing at all to get something of value. You remind me of that Cleo lady that used to be on the TV. The Sexson trade was OK, ...., but not the fleecing that Brewers fans like to think. Agreed 100% Trading Carlos Lee for Cordero was also a good trade, but giving up Lee to get Cordero is essentially giving up an all-star to get one I agree here as well -- the difference being, was this was an attempt to get something for a FA that was soon to be gone. Giving up 3 minor league players to get a major league proven set up man was an absolute stone-cold lock no brainer. Because minor league players never become major league setup guys? Unlike you, I chose to check his stats from his last 4 seasons. You chose to check his stats from the last 4 appearances. Snarkiness aside -- I checked them all as I am sure you did. The difference in our approaches is I tend to put a little more weight on what he has done in the last 2 years rather than what he has done over the last 4-5. The practical reason for this, is that his FA compensatory value will be determined on his last 2 years. If leading the entire major leagues in Holds in the last 4 years doesn't classify as elite set-up man...i don't know what you're looking for in a set up man. Holds mean about as much to me as saves do but less than what Lady Cleo says. There are plenty of stats that suggest he is regressing -- stats I trust more than holds or saves.

While I really do agree with Ned, I hope he understands that, similar to playing baseball, this is easier said than done. I think a lot of the "panic" we've experienced is natural when you're not used to a pennant race. Yeah, well Ned needs to understand the following. 1.) The thing that gets me, is that we finally have our fanbase growing. There are going to be high-strung fans and low-strung fans. You can't tell high-strung people to "relax" anymore than you can tell penguins to fly. It's like a roller coaster, some people just sit there, others yell and scream -- everybody has a good time, some people exude their emotions. 2.) I think a lot of our fans understand the game -- certainly most of them do not think baseball is easy. Ned Yost has won piddly-squat to this point in his career, and we are smart enough to realize, that this is as much new territory to him, as it is to us. Fans will certainly relax, once Ned shows he can manage a team to the playoffs -- this happens with every team in every sport. Teams with proven managers have very trusting fans -- teams with unproven (like Yost) tend to get a lot more nervous.

I hope that the people in charge of news departments take a look at how they cover these types of events. I doubt this will change anything, but it's stupid to risk lives for something so trivial as a police change for ratings. Agreed -- Thank goodness none of those people in the park were hurt. I'm totally fine with piling as many charges as possible onto the guy leading the chase. Why would you have sympathy for that guy? I don't have sympathy for him -- I don't think he was responsible for the copter crash. There were 3 news copters (at least) jockeying for position. The law itself makes sense because it hammers home the central point that if you are doing something stupid people can easily get hurt and throwing all the blame on that person ups the stakes to hopefully remind people of this. This should be said to the news channels as well -- they are super fortunate some kids didn't get killed in that park. JoHova makes a lot of good points.

It's amazing how fast Balfour fell out of favor with the organization. Three appearances, ship him out of town. That's really not the case. There was an inherent risk with bringing Balfour up, he had no options, and could not get sent back to Nashville, without being exposed to waivers. I suspect had he been lights out -- Parra would have returned to Nashville, if the Linebrink trade was made.

I have a problem with OBP, not the HR total. Exactly -- I'm down with OBP -- Every last homie.

I believe that most people here thought the Cubs would be a strong offensive team with bad pitching. I am not sure that this is accurate -- I think most people here thought the Cubs would be BETTER offensively by acquiring some base cloggers (and losing Murton, Cedeno and Pierre and getting Lee healthy) -- but not necessarily strong. As far as the pitching -- I think we may have collectively underestimated Hill and Marshall -- however many people here saw Lilly as underrated, pitching in the very tough AL East, and Marquis has been surprisingly serviceable probably much like Vargas has been for us. And of course Pinella was not going to be any worse that Dusty.

I sort of agree with Powell -- but I think his argument is not expressed very well. I think fans are sick of guys like Mench, Jenks, Weeks, Hall, Hardy, and Estrada having crappy useless ABs -- and then watching guys like Braun and Fielder launch balls out of Wisconsin. That extra inning AB by Estrada on Monday is probably a good illustration of the fans frustrations -- Estrada doesn't need to hit the ball out of the park -- all he needs to do is lift a flyball into the OF and then the Brewers probably win. I think fans have a perception that we can't buy a single when we need it. I don't think any fan wants to see any sort of change out of Braun or Fielder -- but maybe fans would want to trade some of the SLG points that guys like Jenks/Mench/Hardy rack up, traded for some more timely OBP points. I think the Brewers would have won some more games if some our High SLG/Low OBP guys were flipped around. As far as base-stealing goes -- outside of guys like Hart taking low-hanging fruit, I am very OK with infrequent steal attempts. I would be very pissed off if guys started running with Braun/Fielder at the plate. I still have the horror that was the Brady Clark steal attempt ingrained in my mind, and any time we do "aggressive baserunning" like the Mench/Fielder double steal we end up looking like a little league team. As far as bunting. I am not real excited about the team bunting more. I do think Weeks might get more productive ABs by bunting more, and if nothing else, forcing the D to adjust a little bit. Sometimes I think Yost falls into the trap of thinking that a good hitting pitcher is a good hitter, when in reality they are still sub-Counsell. I'd be OK with pitchers bunting in just about every situation with runners on. I think the Brewers are a good illustration overall that team OPS that is weighted more to the SLG side, may have problems scoring enough runs.

You rarely get a good value on trades during the season. I think SD got good value. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Especially for a pending FA. I have to say I am not surprised that Balfor got traded. After it became apparent he wasn't going to stick with the big club that was really the only option. Exactly -- That was the risk of bringing Balfour up. Obviously we weren't the only team that thought Grant had an upside. It's too bad he didn't have the opportunity to pitch in a game like last nights.

People here really dislike Yost's use of the pen, and more specifically using inferior relievers in tough situations, so there should be relief that those inferior options are being replaced by better ones. But, it's an upgrade that comes at a serious price. This is how I feel -- I wouldn't say I hate the trade -- I see some positives, esp. if Sheets vacation gets extended -- but you summed it up nicely PF.

yep -- I think the Cubs are going to give teams fits on both sides of the ball here on out.

Well in all fairness, Balfour is due...

He is the premier set-up man in the league. Why would you compare him to Chris Spurling? I don't think he is the premier setup man in the league -- nowhere near the top -- check the stats -- I was surprised to see how craptacular he has been this year. I am not comparing him to Spurling -- I am saying, he will get Spurling's innings. That's because you don't like the trade and you always just spin thinks to make your point of view appear better. It's pretty rare to hear players say something opposite of what Peavey and Hoffman said about Linebrink -- do you think they would have said "He sucks". generally speaking players are complimentary to each other in the press. Furthermore they are pitchers, they are not running any teams, nor do they have experience in that field. Take out those 2 home runs (6 ER's) and his ERA is right about where it always is. This is just silly -- If you took out 2 HRs for Linebrink he is better, sure.... However, you could do that for any middle reliever and their numbers would improve. Take out 2HRs for all the RPs in the NL and he is still in the middle of the pack at best. In fairness to TheCrew, I don't really see how there is even a bad side to this trade. Step. A -- Take off the goggles. This is exactly the kind of move the Brewers needed to make and I am sure glad (like the national media, local media, and a lot of fans) that they did. I'm happy if John Kruk and Steve Phillips are happy.

The way I'd define 'objective' is setting evaluation criteria in the beginning and not changing it from player to player. Well maybe I am not doing a good job with the idea "objectivity". I would say OPS is more robustly defined than fielding Pct., for example I am OK with comparing 2 players OPS and calling that objective -- however I guess I find taking the 8 position players head to head and calling it 6-2 in favor of one team, rather incomplete and/or arbitrary. -- Again not that there is anything wrong or incorrect with it -- but I have a hard time agreeing based on that evidence.

Peavy and Hoffman hate the trade because Linebrink is a solid member of the bullpen - who makes starting pitchers look good. I am pretty sure that Linebrink is a guy they like -- I would have been shocked had they been indifferent/happy to him leaving -- I don't think this means much as far as the worth of the trade.

I would say that it is objective, since I am putting no spin on the numbers. OPS is incomplete. Using OPS only is arbitrary, when trying to compare 2 offenses. OPS in no way takes into consideration baserunning, or other things. As far as OPS goes, the Brewers are better than the Cubs at 6 out of the 8 lineup positions. Assuming starters start -- that is another aspect that is missing. Bench contributions. I guess I don't know how someone could be more objective than what I did, just stating the bare stats on the season. Perhaps I could have dug a little deeper and gone to OPS+ or something, but I decided to stay simple. Please understand that there is nothing wrong with what you did -- I took issue with saying "Prince is better than Lee (in 2007) he has an higher OPS that is objective" -- All I am saying is that players have more offensive contributions than OPS. I apologize if I seemed critical -- there is nothing wrong with simple/quick and dirty -- I just don't find using OPS exclusively objective, any more than using Fielding Pct. exclusively to determine who is a better defender.