Fatter than Joey

Cordero stayed with up for a year and a half and then brought us 2 comp picks I don't see the comp. picks as an advantage, as we would have gotten comp. picks if we would have let Lee walk instead of trading him. I think the above trade though was a good one, if for no other reason that Turnbow went from AS Game to the toilet, and we needed a BP arm in the worst way. I think DM bought low on Cordero, and overall the trade still makes all the sense in the world to me.

FTJ -- I guess "recent" would be in the eye of the beholder, but I was referring to his elite Dodger days and his "pretty good" Texas stint. Fair enough. I think the Dodger Gagne is long gone, and I think the Texas Gagne was more of the fluke. Like I said, he can be waived and DeFelice would be back with really no harm done, again in the hopes that Gagne isn't thrown into the fire (close games) immediately. Yeah, I am hoping they can put him in some 10-0 type of games. I would have preferred to see him get more IP in Nashville, but I suppose they were afraid he would continue to get lit up.

You lose 5 points for declaring yourself the winner. Don't be so hard on Kat., his only exposure to learning appropriate social behavior as a child was Bill Keane drawings.

"Drunken Louts vs Really Obnoxious Drunken Lout" is more descriptive "Drunken louts v. Thief"?

I find it kind of gross and offensive that Toby still uses one when he goes out clubbing. He keeps saying that he gave his Jason Mraz hat to Godwill.... or do you mean his "blinky binky"?

People definitely get sigs. at hotels... Generally I think you may be better off getting the players after the game rather than before... Sounds neat though!

Yes, I'd point to their postseason WOAHs as a good indicator of this. You are saying a dozen playoff games cancel out hundreds of regular games? I'm quite aware of luck related to sample size. Huh, I just don't think you are http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif -- I don't want to seem snarky, but over the course of 6-8 seasons the good and bad luck is going to even itself out, at least to the point where the net luck, be it good or bad is non-significant -- If it doesn't it's probably a skill.

Hey FTJ -- can I get an acknowledgment of "straw-man" arguments and absolutism with this one? How 'bout at least some recognition of a flat out bias against Yost? He's fine. He is basically saying Yost is making the move because he either has access to information that we don't have, or he is basing it off of 19 PAs -- It's not a strawman agrument. What Ned has to say on the subject is immaterial. That is your opinion. Yost made a comment, if you want to dismiss it, go ahead, others should be able to discuss Yost's comments on the transaction. I am sure Ned had input in the move.

For a little gardenburger to my argument Perhaps Gardenhire? -- I would think this is better evidence of good managing. What does Rickie Weeks have anything to do with this? Nothing, I was clearing my throat.... I think the Twins have had some nice good luck over the timespan I cited above. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm sure they have had good luck.... and bad... over time luck gets washed out and is not a factor. That's sort of the ground rules of using luck based arguments, if it is demonstrated over a large sample, it's probably more of a skill than chance. It doesn't make them a franchise that wasn't run quite well. I hear you.

His one obvious flaw this year is the HR. Yep. You failed to mention his Turnbowian 16 BBs/19 IP. -- That explains his jump in BABip as well.

To be fair, you have to consider that a pitcher with a WHIP of 1.00 Sure -- but we were talking "recent extreme effectiveness". -- Wherever you set the bar -- It's probably going to be 2x as bad in Boston/Milw than it was in Texas. I can't find a significant block in the last year or so for Gagne where he has been consistently good.

I don't see why it has to be 'lucky' vs. 'well-run'... I think it's both I don't. I think you can be "lucky" and "well-run" for small periods of time, but as that time-span gets longer *cough* Rickie Weeks *cough*, the good and bad luck is going to wash itself out. If you want to say that the Twins got lucky this weekend -- fine. I don't think though you can claim that the Twins have been lucky for the last 5 years.

Most of that is tainted with PED's and injury but some of it was last year. Bingo! The best you are going to get with DeFelice is average. Sign me up for average. The best you can get from Gagne is Cy Young Caliber. If the Brewers have one of these in the clubhouse I will concede this point. http://johnthenewsking.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/time-machine4web.jpg

To be fair, Gagne also has shown extreme effectiveness in the recent past, something worth taking a chance on When? -- In his 20 games with the Brewers, in only 4 did he retire all the batters he faced. With Boston, in his 20 appearances, he retired the side in order 5 times. With Texas he retired the side in order 11 times out of 34. I'd say its been awhile (since Texas) since Gagne has demonstrated "extreme effectiveness".

I've never tried flavored seeds. I like the David straight.

I'd say you tip your cap to them. Agreed 100% -- The luck thing holds less water the longer the timespan.

As a side note -- My wife used to daycare, and juice bottles for your kids is bad, bad news. Of course a juice with a meal is good, but letting a kid suck on a juice bottle all day, will rot teeth worse than soda. My wife made our kids drink only water when they were thirsty (again aside from meals), and I can tell the difference. Plus my kids are used to drinking water, so we don't have soda in our house except for occasions.

I don't find some struggles over a whopping 19 1/3 IP for a RP all that troubling. I do. 19 IP is a significant portion of a RP's season. By your admission, he has been bad 40% of the time. Turnbow has only pitched 13 IP in Nash., I'm pretty confident in sticking a "do not recall" sticker on him as well. not to mention that his 'bum-like-ish-ness' was pretty clearly affected by injury. I disagree -- He has been bad all year, from game 1, or as you point out 40% of the time. I don't think if you map out his injuries and appearances over a time axis, you will not find a point where he got hurt, and things went south. If he has been hurt all year, Melvin is an idiot for signing him, and continuing to play him. I'm interested to see how effective he can be if indeed the injury was holding him back & he's now healthy/ier. I am, if he is doing it in Nashville. If Gagne had put together 3-4 good appearances in Nash., I'd be more optimistic. Gagne's contract was basically Melvin playing with house money. I really, really like one-year deals for FA with a club like Milwaukee, especially when you're talking about filling out a bullpen. I have no problem with the signing of Gagne, it's the continued use of Gagne that bothers me. I understand DM took a risk in signing Gagne, but, there is a point where DM needs to cut bait. The only reason that Gagne is getting the ball over DeFelice, is that Gagne is making $10M. DeFelice is pitching well, bumping him to roll the dice on Gagne makes no sense -- other than DM saving face.

He really wasn't that bad, just didn't provide what most feel $10M should 'buy' you. 12 'good' outings, 8 'bad' outings by my count. That's a bit simplistic, but it's not like he's this bum that people try to make him out to be I disagree -- 8 bad outings in 20, is pretty unacceptable and bum-like. In a sport where the greatest hitters get out 50% of the time, I find a 40% "bad rate" overall very alarming.

b) he forfeits his money to become a FA This is incorrect. If the Brewers outright release Gagne, he gets paid in full. Gagne has 7.1 years of service, at 5 years he gets the right to tell the Brewers to pound sand, refuse any assignment, and keep sending his paycheck. If he gets claimed -- the claiming team would pay a pro-rated portion of the minimum salary. The only way the Brewers get off the hook for paying Gagne is if they trade him. It's a pretty much sunk cost at this point.

The AL Central was a weak division when they were winning it, and that is pretty much proven by them losing in the first round of the playoffs every year to better competition. I don't see where the AL Central is weak. The Twins have been putting up 90+ win seasons for most of the 2000's. Losing in the first round proves nothing about the AL Central.

I for one, if I ever have kids, hope someone slaps me if I start making up nonsense words for baby items. You could start slapping the good people at Gerber, if you feel so inclined. NUK I just want to throw up whenever I hear full-grown adults switch into baby-talk. It has its purpose like Al points out, pacifier is a hard word for kids, Nuk is easy. None of my kids were that attached to them. I think we just threw them all out one day.

DM has said, that he wants trades to work out for his trade partners, so they are eager to deal in the future.

Fair enough

3.90 is not a bad ERA. His walk rate is though.