Raw Biz

Heath Bell (34) -- If traded, might be resigned by whoever trades for him. Jonathan Broxton (28) -- Declining skills/injured past 2 years, don't know if he's an upgrade over KRod. Matt Capps (28) -- Doesn't K too many guys so some might not consider him an upgrade. Francisco Cordero (37) - $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout -- getting up there in age Frank Francisco (32) -- Has pretty good stuff but again, may not be upgrade over KRod. Brad Lidge (35) - $12.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout -- aging again, plus injury Joe Nathan (37) - $12.5MM club option with a $2MM buyout -- same as above. Jonathan Papelbon (31) -- probably resigned. Jon Rauch (33) - $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout -- Again, probably not an upgrade. Francisco Rodriguez (30) - $17.5MM club/vesting option with a $3.5MM buyout Rafael Soriano (32) - $11MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout -- Hasn't done much this year so may not be an upgrade. Jose Valverde (34) - $9MM club option, no buyout -- Having a pretty good year, option probably picked up. KRod is younger than all but 2 on this list. He may not be the same pitcher he was a few years ago but he's still probably better than at least half this list. A lot of these guys are older and/or coming off injuries, so they may not get anymore than a 1 or 2 year deal. I think a team who is serious about competing could sign KRod to a decent-sized contract. He won't touch the 17.5 option but he could get something like 3/36, especially with Boras as his agent. I think the extra years would be worth it to him and Boras instead of taking the one year arbitration and having to set-up.

I wouldn't (and I don't know if that would even be enough from the O's side). Hardy would be a rental, has a hard time staying healthy, and I wouldn't want to pay what it would cost to resign him. And Reynolds hasn't been a very good defender, strikes out way too much for my taste (even if K's are overrated by some, 200 is a ton), and barely hits .220. I really like Green and think he can be a solid contributor at 3rd. We'll also need our pitching prospects if we can't resign Marcum and/or Greinke. And if we want to resign Hardy, at least one of them (if not both) wouldn't be resigned.

I would say it depends on when the injury would occur (and I really hope it doesn't). If it's early on, then yeah I would think KRod basically becomes the closer. But if it happens say late August, early September and KRod is struggling and other guys are pitching better, I could see someone else taking over the role or going to a closer by committee. I don't think the union would have a grievance claim if KRod were struggling. But if he pitches lights out for the next month and Axford goes down, then we could be in trouble. But if the option vests, maybe someone would be willing to trade for him if the Brewers eat part of that salary.

I know the picks come into play with the Brewers. I was saying that it shouldn't come into play from the Mets perspective. In other words, the Mets shouldn't be looking to get 2 1st round talent guys out of the trade just because the team trading for KRod could receive picks. Also, since it appears that the Mets GM called Melvin (not the other way around like we may have assumed), it really does look like the Mets were just simply trying to get rid of KRod for whatever they could get.

I don't think the potential picks should come into play because the Mets were never going to see those picks, at least not this offseason. With the exception of an injury, the option was going to vest so the picks were never going to be in play for the Mets. Again, this was all about the Mets not having to pay 17.5 mil next year, nothing more, nothing less.

From the Minor League Spec thread, courtesy of the Mets fan: -Chris Perez was a PTBNL in the Mark DeRosa trade from the Indians to the Cards a few years back. The rumor was the Cards gave them the choice of Perez or Motte (who I believe were both in the majors at the time, or at least had been at some point...which was OK, because of the silly rules involving "switching leagues" with PTBNLs), so they used some time to scout both more extensively-Micah Owings, who started 18 games for the DBacks that year, went from arizona to the Reds in the Adam Dunn deal as a PTBNL-Sean Rodriguez was a PTBNL for the Rays in the Scott Kazmir deal Like with minor leaguers, sometimes teams just want a little more time to scout the players. In the Perez case, it seemed to have worked.

What about trading FOR a guy who will help, like KRod? I'm not saying it's going to be Stetter but it could be and it could be McClendon, another guy who could help the Brewers. I know we didn't have to give up a lot but we did have to give up something and Stetter/McClendon could realistically be pieces. To just dismiss that outright is wrong IMO.

There's been a few posts recently about moving guys to different positions after they've spent years where they currently are (Weeks to SS, Braun back to 3rd, Fielder to CF). This isn't a video game and moving guys to different positions is usually difficult. I was never a big Bill Hall fan but he was moved to a new position every year (and he was considered a utility guy) and it messed him up big time. Sure Braun has played 3B in the past but he never really should have. Just because McGehee is bad doesn't mean anyone else you put there will be better. It may be out of the box thinking but sometimes it's better to just stay in the box and close the lid.

99% sure it's not Gamel. Melvin already said it's not a top prospect. It would be one thing if he didn't say anything or if he danced around the question but he said it wasn't a top prospect. He knows (or should) that he would be killed by fans if he traded Gamel after saying a top prospect wasn't invovled. Also 99% sure that KRod's option will not vest. The guy has to finish 21 games for the rest of the year. Sure he could wind up finishing 10-15 games and that would be cutting it close but Attanasio, Melvin, Roenicke, et. al know the situation. They can't come out and say we're not going let the option vest because they would have to face the union (that's why the Mets didn't just demote KRod to a setup role). They are also likely saying that KRod will close some to keep him happy. I'm sure Melvin has had conversations with Boras about this already and Boras is looking to show that KRod can still be a good closer so he can get one more big deal in the offseason. By allowing him to close a few games (without the option vesting), KRod can show off his skills while the Brewers don't have to worry about the option. I think everyone is uneasy because they can't believe we got a once-dominant closer without having to pay much in salary and in prospects. Well, believe it. Like others have said, this was purely financial. I posted an article from May a few pages back that specifically says the Mets would be best off trading KRod to anyone willing to take him, even if they got nothing in return. The vesting option is insane and nobody wanted to have to pay that. There also weren't many teams with established closers willing to take on any extra money or even the slight risk that the option would vest. And as good as KRod can be, he isn't the same guy who closed for the Angels. So everyone should just enjoy the trade and rest easy that we really didn't have to give up much. (If both 1% scenarios happen -- Gamel traded and option vests -- you may never hear from me again).

I think it's dumb because I don't think he's worth the money it will cost to resign him (7-8 being on the cheaper end). Would I like to have him now? Well yeah because he's better than Yuni. But would I like to sign him to an extension for what he would want? No. I also don't see Hardy as being the missing piece to put them over the top. Sure they could sign Prince next year but they'd still have an aging, declining Guerrero (not sure what his contract is like), strikeout/mendoza line king Reynolds, as well as various other pieces that IMO, are overrated (or in some cases, just haven't played up to their potential). Adam Jones is a stud and Markakis has had a couple good early years but has struggled this year. Wieters is still young but is struggling to put up a .700 OPS in his 3rd year. Brian Roberts is aging and declining (and is owed a lot) and Luke Scott hasn't done much either. They have some good young pitchers but I just don't think they will be good enough to compete with the Yankees/Red Sox. The Yankees have older players sure but they basically have an endless payroll so they can just go out and keep buying more stud free agents (unless something drastic changes in the bargaining agreement). The Red Sox have a pretty solid offensive core and some stud pitchers too. I like a lot of the guys on the Orioles and I never said they weren't talented. Hell, they might all have career years next year. But I still don't think they would win the division/wild card. I also think they differ from the Rays because the Rays had great defense and great pitching. But who knows, maybe they could shorten their name to the O's and they'd win the division.

I made a lengthy post saying the same thing. It's incredibly easy to envision the O's turning it around quickly. They have 5 talented pitchers between the ages of 23 and 25. They have a couple guys who are incredibly talented, like potentially the best or top 2-3 in baseball. Weiters is 25 years old and was described as a switch hitting Joe Mauer with 40 HR potential. He's already an elite defender and an all star. Adam Jones is also 25 with a incredible amount of upside still. Markakis is a career .300 hitter and just coming into his prime at 27 years old. Reynolds has an .840 OPS and 20 HR's this year. Obviously Hardy is a very good SS. Britton, Arrieta, Tillman and Matusz are four middle to front of the rotation type pitchers who, again, range from 23-25 years old. They've got a lot of money, and they've been one of the teams rumored to go after Prince. They sign Prince, Weiters and Jones take the next step and they could have a potentially dominating lineup. And they've certainly got the young talent. With the AL East, it's not about simply being talented. It's about being more talented than the Yankees and Red Sox both. Obviously they have talent on the team but I still think it would be dumb to lock up Hardy to an extension (assuming he wants like 7-8 mil/yr), since I believe they have like 3 SS in their top 10 prospects.

Well they are getting 2 players so each could be one. It could also be a guy who has played for us in a previous season (or even this season) but was removed from the 40 man. We don't really know who the players are, other than the one clue from the Mets GM that they are looking at a guy who has played some in the bigs already.

An injured player can be the PTBNL but I believe you have to wait until after they come off the DL to announce it. It was mentioned in an earlier post.

Or McClendon.

To which he answered: There you go.Yeah that's what I've been trying to say. Maybe mine was too wordy. On a side note, maybe this should be merged with the Major League thread, since there seems to be a lot of overlap.

But if the trade is announced in Sept like Doug said in an earlier interview today (not sure which one), the season wouldn't be over so I still think someone on the 40 man could be in the trade, as long as they aren't called up when rosters expand.

Gamel's on the 40-man though, no? They can have Stetter as far as I'm concerned, I just don't want to lose a guy like Kintzler. I'll repost what I wrote from the Minor League Spec thread about the 40 man thing: With the PTBNL thing, I too always thought that the rule was the player couldn't play in the same league from the time the trade was announced until the end of the year. This was put in place to prevent a situation where a guy is playing against the team he is to be traded to and purposefully plays bad. So that means that the PTBNL cannot be on the 25 man for the rest of the year but could still be on the 40. Also, someone who was already on the 25 man earlier but won't be for the rest of the year is also eligible. If Mass or anyone else has any literature or links to contradict this, please share. Edit: This article specifically talks about the trade and that a player can't be traded from the same league. But it doesn't mention anything about the 40 man.

Since I haven't thrown any names out there, I'll go with McClendon and Haydel.

With the PTBNL thing, I too always thought that the rule was the player couldn't play in the same league from the time the trade was announced until the end of the year. This was put in place to prevent a situation where a guy is playing against the team he is to be traded to and purposefully plays bad. So that means that the PTBNL cannot be on the 25 man for the rest of the year but could still be on the 40. Also, someone who was already on the 25 man earlier but won't be for the rest of the year is also eligible. If Mass or anyone else has any literature or links to contradict this, please share. As for the guy who was in the majors recently, I highly doubt its Gamel because Melvin came out and said it wasn't considered a "top" prospect. Maybe Melvin doesn't consider Gamel a prospect anymore but I highly doubt it. edit: I see jjfanec, And That, and YoungGeezy all beat me to a list of guys who have been called up this year so you can check those out.

It's very likely his option would have vested if they didn't trade him.Yeah that's what people tend to forget when analyzing this trade. It wasn't about getting anything in return. It was about not having to pay him 17.5 mil next year. And they couldn't just move him to a setup role because the union likely would have filed a grievance.

Why do you say that? I would think if this were the case, Melvin or someone would've just come out and said it so everyone can stop worrying about whether or not the option will vest. That way the union, fans, KRod, Axford, Roenicke, and everyone else don't have to speculate on whether or not the Brewers are deliberately trying to prevent him from reaching that option.

I'm thinking that if there were a higher-leverage situation in the 8th, say runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 out, then maybe Axford comes in to shut down the 8th and KRod gets the clean save chancein the 9th. Hopefully something like this only happens at most 10 times. I actually think using Axford in these situations would be better for the team overall, if in fact that is what they are thinking. If they are thinking that sometimes Axford will start the 8th and KRod the 9th when they are both fully rested, then that is just stupid.

Just to get it straight, obviously I'm the opposite of one of those fans, as my comments indicated. And at the times I wanted to keep Villanueva, JDLR, and Hardy instead of selling them low. To wit those GM's exist, in fact one is our very own. Doug put us in this predicament because he gave up 3 years of Hardy for nothing, just because he had a few poor months. So acquiring a few months of a cooled-down Hardy for a pretty good and decent prospect should hardly be out of the question.Well at the time, we actually a got a young CF (former top prospect) who played outstanding defense and still had some potential on offense. Gomez still provides a lot of value from his defense alone so that is more than nothing. Plus we had Escobar waiting to come up so it's not like Melvin gave him away just for the hell of it.

Not to mention he is basically free this year with the 5 mil coming over. We can just factor in the 3.5 mil buyout into the payroll for next year.

I would assume so since finishing the game means being the last pitcher on the team used.