JJHardy7

I don't understand how this is relevant. If they have to be used, they get added to the 40-man, and you then you have to remove someone. You don't have to make the move unless you're 'forced' to make the move. That's my point. We can sit here all day and talk about injuries, but as of now there aren't any. Nelson can play the OF in a pinch so you keep him on the 25 man roster. That gives you a much better bat than Gwynn and a better pinch hitter. If an OF goes down for a period of time, you make a move then. There's not need to 'save' Gwynn should something happen. I'd be fine with letting go of a guy like Pena if the Brewers had to due to injury...that's part of the game. The Brewers didn't have to let him go and that's the problem I have with this. It's also very 'un-Melvin' like since the Brewers have been pretty big on power arms during his tenure. I think we need to sit back and look at Green. I just can't see how Green is better than Pena. Again, if we signed a nice free agent or had to make a move...fine. We didn't have to do this and the Brewers screwed up on this one. If anything, Pena had trade value last off-season and this also goes along with my theory that the Brewers don't develop pitchers/assess talent properly. Pena and Sarfate both were let go for nothing, but they both had 'prospect' status at one point.

kramnoj - the real question is how much do you value Gwynn? If he's a 4th or 5th OF, he should be had for little in terms of a trade. I'm not talking about trading a top 20 prospect. In terms of free agents, I agree with mothership. I'd much rather have Nix than Gwynn and it'd be easy to get Nix. Or what about this...say the Brewers sign a OF free agent right now...that makes Gwynn useless. Just because he's one of the only OFs on the 40-man doesn't increase his value. The Brewers have OFs better than Gwynn IMO that aren't on the 40 man. It's similar to saying Favre's backups during his time in Green Bay were good because they were #2 qbs in the NFL...there were scrubs behind him (most of the time) and it didn't matter because they never played. Should Cameron go out for a long period I highly doubt Gwynn starts all the games if the Brewers are in a playoff race. Edit - Jack Z. strikes again. Again, I'm not saying Pena is going to lead the league in saves this year, but IMO you don't get rid of power arms. Bad move by the Brewers...I think Pena's ceiling > Green's.

If Cameron goes down for a month, what do you do? Make Nelson or Irribarren a full time OF? If you go acquire another OF, then you need to remove someone from the 40 man anyway. You sign a free agent or trade a low level prospect. You do get to keep a guy like Pena on the 40 man who has more potential than Gwynn. I guess the way I think about is this...if the Brewers traded Gwynn right now, what could they get? My guess is not much and that's why it's easy to worry about this thing if something happens. They do already have options in the minors to replace Gwynn. What's wrong with Irribarren? Gwynn doesn't have a MLB bat IMO and can be replaced.

It looks like Vinny may clear waivers. If he does, it means 29 other teams really didn't think too much of him either. Has any other players beat these long odds? Yes, but Vinny's chances to succeed here are extremely low unless he explodes this spring training. I just don't see his value. I mean, look at his AAA stats last year. IMO, I believe Casey Mc. has a far better chance to succeed here (esp with Hall's injury) than Rottino. Look at his numbers when he wasn't catching. Utility guys are much more likely to clear waivers. I'm sure there are other teams that would want him as depth in AAA. I don't care if Vinny is from Wisconsin or New York, but he does have some value IMO. If the Brewers would've used him as a utility type guy in AAA last year, I think he'd have a great shot at the 25-man since his numbers in the minors have not been bad. He's just not a catcher.

My question is this...if he sucks at 3b, but rakes will bf.net forgive him? Or demand he's moved to a different position after really seeing him for one game? Most people here have never seen any of these guys in the minors -- like Braun. He'll be able to hit, but I don't want to see posts after the first game about how his defense is awful and he must be moved. Give the guy some time if he has the bat. It's great to point out the good of a player, but I think around here it's pretty clear a negative will be posted about more. If Braun was given a legit chance to stick at 3b, this team would be better. I hope we give Mat a chance and...he will be the starting 3b on opening day. I can't link a source or anything, but that's my guess and I've heard he'll be given a big chance to win the job. Now if he stinks in spring training, that may not happen. I've heard he's made pretty big strides on defense so if he hits in spring training there's a very good shot he'll be the opening day 3b. The Hall injury opens a huge door for Mat, but IMO the door may have been opened already.

If Rottino could be looked at as a true catcher by other clubs, that would make him much more valuable. I can only assume that he's not viewed as a catcher, however. I don't think so. Look at his numbers last year as a catcher...he took a decent decline for a player in their third year (more or less) of AAA ball. If he put up 2006 numbers, we'd probably have threads about him maybe beating out Rivera as the backup catcher.

While there are probably better situations out there, I would think that Josh and Pena would look at the Brewer roster and realize that while there may be a number of options for the Brewers in the pen this year, there's not a whole heck of a lot of them that don't have major question marks. I'd think if Pena starts out strong and someone in the pen falters, there's a great chance Pena is called up before June. I agree with what you're saying PF. I just think Pena may not have to 'wait' on injuries or bad performances of others to get to the bigs. I'm not saying Pena is perfect, but from what I've seen first hand he has a great arm. It may be a coach or an adjustment and this guy is easily a MLB pitcher. That's why I think another team will roll the dice on him. If Pena is a Brewer somehow, I'll be excited. I just don't think that will happen. He was the wrong guy to remove from the 40-man and hopefully they can at least trade him and get some value. The major thing that bothers me about this is Pena has been with the Brewers what seems like forever -- why dump him and not some others on the 40-man? Were the Brewers wrong on him for so long? Gwynn should've been removed and that is a slam dunk. If an injury happens, Gwynn Jr.s grow on trees. He'd be easy to replace via free agent and if not trading a low level prospect would probably bring back more than a Gwynn Jr.

Nowitzki is a 'soft' 4 too. The Bucks don't need a Nowitzki if they have Redd. Would the take him for the right price? Sure, but we've seen how far Dallas has gone in the playoffs. If Redd is gone, Dirk/CV would be needed to score. If Dirk had a legit big guy in Dallas, his numbers would be even better and it's the same with Redd. I guess I think of it this way -- how would you defend the Bucks (when healthy)? They lack outside shooting to a certain degree without Redd. I wouldn't give Redd any easy 3s...now if they had a legit big guy that the offense ran through that would be much more difficult than it is now. The luxury tax is for teams that go over it. This year it was set at $71.15 million, any team over that salary has to pay the tax. So if you're at $76.15 milion in salary, you're paying another $5 million in the tax and you're not getting the revenue from teams that are over the cap. I'm by no means claiming to be an expert on this. The league sets the luxury tax based on BRI. If zero teams in the league qualify, there won't be a tax. My point goes back to the fact that the economy isn't doing all that well and teams will be less willing to spend. This IMO could mean that teams that can get some cap space can benefit. Most teams won't have a lot of space for years due to long-term contracts. trwi7 -- you seem to be the bf.net expert on this stuff. Is this site below legit? http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q16 It seems to go into some nice detail about how it all works, but again I'm not sure if it's 100% correct

I'm all for getting Edmonds. It would be a huge upgrade over Gwynn. I really do hope the Brewers are able to/take advantage of the market right now. Salaries seem down and if the Brewers can make another move it could be a bargain deal. I know the Looper deal is a 'bargain' compared to what similar pitchers received in the past, but I would continue to look for more.

Is there a question that Pena might not stick with the Brewers? I thought the questions were if the Brewers could find a minor trade for Pena, or if Pena would choose to sign a minor league deal with the Brewers once he is a FA. If a deal isn't struck, I would think Pena would have better options instead of the Brewers in terms of making a MLB roster. If he is back on the Brewers that'd be great, but it doesn't appear that he'll have a shot to make the 25 man out of spring training.

If I recall right, why was Vinny looked at as the 'catcher of the future' last off-season? I believe Melvin made some comment that he could be the guy and thus played catcher in Nashville (instead of rotating positions in the past). Vinny's value to any MLB team will be his ability to play multiple positions. It's almost as if the Brewers hurt his development at other positions by placing him at catcher all year. I'm not as high on Vinny here as some since being from Wisconsin doesn't mean much to me, but if he's used properly (ie a utility man) he still has some value on a MLB roster. I think he's the 'Counsell of the future' and that's not a bad thing. I know not everyone follows the minors around here, but it'll be interesting to see how Nashville uses their position players -- Kremblas was a big fan of getting guys experience at different positions.

Josh - So Pena has a shot at sticking with the Brewers? That would be good news IMO. I hate giving up on power arms. You can't teach that and to me this is a nearly perfect example of why minor league stats can't be used as the bottom line for players. Who knows...maybe Pena was working on his delivery, etc. in 2008 and that led to some poor results.

I'm one of the crazy people that think/thought Braun should've stuck at 3b and was rushed up to soon. I've seen Mat play and I feel the same about him. His bat isn't as good as Braun (how many are?), but once again I do believe he can stick at 3b. He's made some nice strides. With that being said, I hope the Brewers don't put Mat on the MLB roster and then move his position after a year. If he's the best option at 3b, put him there and stick with him. If the Brewers didn't call up Braun/stuck with him at 3b, we wouldn't be having this discussion. A little patience on the Brewers part and their fans would've paid off.

The Bucks are right up against the luxury tax limit next year and Sessions and CV are both free agents. Think of it along the lines of dumping Suppan to be able to re-sign Sabathia. The 'Larry Bird' rule though also applies here. The Bucks can pay these two more than any team AND they aren't free agents. They are restricted free agents, which means the Bucks can match any offer a team makes. The luxury tax isn't a slam dunk either -- from what I've read it only applies if the league is above the luxury tax. My guess is that it is, but given the economy I don't see teams shelling out money. I think there's a good chance Sessions or CV remain in Milwaukee without moving a player due to the fact that I don't see them getting huge money...good money yes, but if MLB is like the NBA with the economy the mid-level players (Sessions and CV) will be hurt the most. I do think trading RJ is the best option now. I do want to get value for him since the Bucks did give up a nice young player for him. I loved the trade at the time, but I now feel that either the Bucks have a long-term plan that we don't know about (I hope), or they just weren't thinking. I hope the Bucks have an idea of what the current contract wants of each player are and if they can't meet those wants one or both should be traded. I would trade CV now and would rather keep Sessions. I agree with other posts that it's more difficult to find a 4, but CV is a 'soft' 4 and given the teams roster I think they do not need a 'soft' 4. Trading CV would also be trading selling high...

Then the following year Redd would finally be an expiring contract, i can't wait for the day he's no long a Buck. Gadzuric would also be coming off the cap the same year. I never can understand the hate for Redd. He's not a complete player, but my guess is there are several NBA teams that would take him over what they have. I know I'm in the minority, but I'd actually bring the guy back after his contract expires or at least let him know that the Bucks are still interested. I wouldn't give him a max contract and by me saying I'd want him back it also has to be a deal that 'makes sense'. The Bucks biggest problem is that they have really never developed a post presence. I really like Bogut, but they haven't ran the offense through him/he's been hurt. If the Bucks ever had a post presence, Redd would be a perfect player for that team. It's not like there is a shortage of qualified Bucks. Redd would be there if not hurt. Rumors were that he'd be playing the actual game itself and maybe the the 3 point contest.

But please don't take my word for it... I'm an accountant, but I don't do anything directly with taxes. And I use TurboTax to do my own. The actual language in the law will be made available shortly. I've already filed my return with the credit (purchased in May of 2008) and I'm just hoping I don't have to pay it back -- selfish I know. If you find any more links, please post them. Everything I've still found either doesn't clearly mention paying the prior credit back or says that it still has to be paid back.

There's really just one credit here... first time home buyers who purchased between 4/9/08-12/31/08 get a tax credit of (up to) $7500 and homes purchased between 1/1/09-12/1/09 get (up to) $8000. The repayment requirement is no longer valid on either version of the credit and both versions are refundable. This is, AFAIK, the final law. Do you have a link or anything for the homes purchased from 4/9/08 through 12/31/08? I am curious to see if this is true regarding the payment. I haven't seen anything saying that it doesn't have to be paid back during that time, but I'm going to look now since I fall in that category.

I prefer to think of Vinny Rottino as Milwaukee's version of Minneapolis' Joe Mauer. If you want a 'hometown guy', you have Counsell. I've never been high on Rottino and if he ends up taking a minor league deal with the Brewers that's fine by me. The 'catcher of the future' business never made sense last off-season IMO.

I've seen Pena pitch and he has some nasty stuff. I'm a 'power arm' kind of guy so I hate to see this guy go, but I do understand why I guess. I'd have kept him over some other guys on the 40-man roster, but that's just me. The thing I don't get is that he had major control issues this year and some people are sad to see him go. Weren't some here agaisnt McClung because of control issues last spring and wanted him DFA'd?

Dumb question here...if the Brewers pick up the club option and Looper voids it, are they still on the hook for the buyout? I would assume they wouldn't be.

A Little off-topic but I do question how this actually stimulates the economy. There was already a $7,500 credit in place, and no one would have had to pay it back until their 2010 returns. So how the heck does that even stimulate the economy? I guess I shouldn't complain though. The hope is that it encourages people to buy a house who may be on the fence. I don't know if it will work in theory, but that's the hope. Not only may it encourage those on the fence to purchase a house, but depending on how they spend the $7,500 it can stimulate the economy that way also. It'll be sweet if they allow those who purchased after April of '08 to claim the credit without repay. We weren't going to claim it because we see ourselves moving in 5 years or so and if our house value stays around the same (or god forbid, goes down), we'd likely have to owe a sizeable chunk of money if and when we sell. If I were you, I'd take the credit. There are circumstances where you will not have to be the credit back based on the sales price of your home. Also, it's an interest free loan. If you would take the credit and put it in a high interest savings, you could make hundreds of dollars of interest in a few years. Just a thought...

The difference is that Alex was asked about this point blank on national TV and lied about it. We're not asking people to "come out" and admit it, but AROD flat out lied about it. That is the difference. Who is to say that others on the list of 104 haven't denied it? It may not have been 'national', but given the fact that zero active players are coming out before they're caught tells me that's the norm -- and not an A-Rod thing. Again, from a player's view...why the heck would you admit something that from the players union and all you thought would never be known and among other reports he was told back in 2004 one time? I'm not saying this make what A-Rod did ok and I don't like the fact that he lied on national television...I just don't see the difference between national television and local reporters. Players like A-Rod get on national television and players like Jenkins, Spivey, and Helms (my random Brewers guesses...nothing behind them just guesses) don't, but that doesn't mean they've lied about it.

The point is though Darnell, is that Suppan is a guy who almost every year throws for 200 innings. He is probably better conditioned to starting than McClung is, and thus won't have as many short starts. McClung, as many of the stats people have posted, is clearly better coming out of relief. So even if Suppan would be slightly worse than McClung, which is a big "if". He is better served as an innings eating 5th starter. We have no idea how he'd do in the pen, he may be horrible for all we know. I believe I've noted this in the past, but Seth did have major arm surgery, which in turn led to some bad habits regarding his conditioning. He did lose quite a bit of weight last off-season and I've heard he'll report in better shape this year. I do have the feeling that not having a 'role' will upset Seth a bit. I'm not saying he'll blow up or that...that's not Seth's style. I think we at times fail to forget the differences in conditioning if one is a starter or a relief pitcher -- and it's even more important with Seth. If he's starting he needs to build up his stamina, but if he's a relief pitcher he needs to focus on his velocity (while also not walking players). I'm not trying to say Seth is a Cy Young pitcher or anywhere near that. I just think it's fair to let Seth know what his role is. The Tommy John surgery is further in the past and I think he'll not only be an important pitcher on the Brewers, but an important player. Seth has all the makings to be an above average pitcher in this league and if it all falls together the right way he could be one of the better pitchers on the Brewers. You cannot teach velocity and if Seth reports in the shape I think he will 2009 could be a very good year for him.

While that is true, it's also true that in all the years since then, not one clubhouse guy or gym rat or personal trainer or drug dealer or down-on-his-luck ex-athlete has ever come forward to name Aaron or Mantle or Frank Robinson, etc. Not One. And so while we may look back at history and have doubts on every single athlete, it's hardly the same as the doubts we have on modern athletes who have been named, and against whom there is evidence. I do agree with you for the most part Jim. I do think that in this day and age you can make money off of 'turning' a player in. A-Rod had a few whispers regarding this in the past, but the failed test is the evidence. If they tested back in the day, who knows what they would've found. I honestly think they wouldn't find a lot since the money wasn't anywhere near as big back then as it is now. I do believe baseball pushed the power numbers since it helped score more runs, attendance, and made more money. That is the sad part about this whole thing to me. Again, I don't think what A-Rod did was right, but it's not like the sport had anywhere near the testing levels the sport needed. In the end, the non-testing of steroids probably led to billions of dollars for players, teams, and the league.

is this official yet? I read the first 70 posts at noon today and figured it'd be a done deal by the time I got home. But here I am, four hours later, and I don't see anything official yet. There won't be anything official until he passes a physical. My guess is it'll be official tomorrow afternoon.