TheCrew07

And then moved Braun to RF.And then lured Jermaine Dye out of retirement to platoon with the newly acquired David DeJesus in left. Trade Morgan and Gomez for young arms, get Coco Crisp for CF- and that's an outfield.Yea because actually selling high on player is crazy talk, they should take on the Melvin method of holding onto a player until his value dries up completely before looking to move him. Not to mention how our defense would suffer without Hart, how irreplaceable his production is, how young he is, and of course how cheap he his.... or.... yea. Selling high on players is talk for the fringe element who doesn't understand sports and/or baseball at all, it's much better to be constant buyers at peak value than it is to replenish the talent well. Of course it's not possible to be sarcastic without blue either so I should probably just give up now.

Mass, I normally get pretty wordy, but I'm somewhat shocked by this revelation. I'd like to thank you for everything you've done since I found this site back in 2003 or 2004 (I don't even remember anymore, I'd have to go back and look at the teams), I've been reading and enjoying your work for a very long time. The Link Report was exactly what I was looking for in an era of Brewer's MLB futility, it provided hope for the future when there wasn't much to be excited about otherwise. I wish you and your family the best in whatever challenges await, and once again thank you very much for everything that you've done for me and everyone who has participated here on the Minor League forum over the years. I wish I was more articulate and able to provide the send off that you deserve, thank you sir, and job well done. Seth

I guess that depends on what people thought of McGehee regarding a glaring hole at 3b. I for one never liked him defensively and always figured he would regress offensively, and there were plenty of people that agreed, it was a position that should have always been looked at in terms of being "upgradable". He's just not as physically gifted compared to his peers, and he had much less success than a player like Gamel for example, who people constantly trash around here. The larger point that I think is being missed is that the Brewers decided Lawrie was a 2B when he decided he wasn't going to catch. Many posters on the minor league forums thought he would ultimately end up some place other than 2B, Toronto moving him wasn't exactly shocking by any stretch. If you don't follow the minor leagues closely, then you probably wouldn't fully understand history of defensive ineptitude of this current administration. The fact that Braun and Weeks at least approached average defensively in the big leagues isn't an endorsement of what's been done, it's condemnation of it. Anything that negatively impacts a player's overall value at MLB isn't a good thing, regardless if he eventually figures it out, he still limited his value in those poor defensive seasons. Luck? How do you prove or disprove luck? It's the easiest thing to claim and one of the hardest refute... why do people that are good at what they do seem to get all the breaks? Why do good teams seem to get all the bounces? Luck is usually just the result of making the most of an opportunity that presents itself. Finally, yet again people are looking at the pitching staff as it related to 2010, as if it were in vacuum. We've been down the pitching road numerous times, people are going to believe what they want to believe in that regard, from where I'm sitting Melvin doesn't build around young pitching, he builds around young SLG, and trading our best talent for obvious established talent doesn't make him a better GM when most people on this board would have made those trades. Regardless, my point was about cost controlled talent... there is quite a bit to like about Marcum as a pitcher, again he's one of the few soft tossers I latched onto, but from a pure talent standpoint Brett Lawrie is simply vastly more talented. Hall of Fame? Come on... I used the word potential, I know he hasn't proven anything, my problem was using an ultra gifted prospect to acquire an injury risk control pitcher. I don't expect most people to agree with me because most people are only going to care what happens with the MLB team in any specific season, but at least make an effort to actually understand the argument being presented. We traded away a little under 7 years (at minimum) of whatever Lawrie's production will be, including his cheapest controlled seasons. for Marcum's most expensive 2 seasons as a professional, as well as a significant disparity in pure talent. I've also said many times that the player is ultimately responsible for his performance, but these are young kids, not fully adjusted adults, and again I think people vastly overestimate how much development time there actually is as a minor league player. The minor leagues are mostly about trial by fire, it's not the coaching that's necessarily the problem, it's the system. You have 3 coaches, 24+ players per team, and about an hour on the field to get done everything you need to get done prior to a game each day. Pitchers in the bullpen aren't getting side sessions with the pitching coach, the position players aren't getting daily individual instruction, there just simply isn't enough coaching time to go around with so few coaches given the time constraints. The focus on the Brewer's side has been obvious, you have to be able to hit to be a MLB player. However, runs prevented are just as valuable as runs created, in addition to the fact that poor defense adds unnecessary stress to the pitching staff because poor defense ultimately shortens the starting pitcher's day from an IP perspective. I stand by my premise that anyone not named Gallardo or Braun is tradable at any time given the right deal. We don't "need" Marcum, Hart, Weeks... what we need is to build an organization ripe with talent that produces enough talent to win at the MLB level and can replenish impact talent when the Brewers allow said talent to move on. So far the system has done neither, it didn't produce enough pitching to go with the hitting in the first wave, and now the system has been emptied of impact talent to the point we don't have immediate replacements waiting anywhere but 1B. Unfortunately the consensus on the board seems to be that Gamel will fail at 1B even though he played as poorly as he could in uneven playing time and still put a league average OPS, so Melvin should go spend money on 1B in FA. I just don't see the situation in the light that we need every productive player we currently have and never will.

This is exactly why the Brewers continually get older though. Anytime a player is productive there is a large segment of the posting population here that wants to retain that player. The Brewers should always be breaking in a couple of younger players between the position players, starting rotation, and bullpen. However that shouldn't prevent the GM from taking advantage of a sweet deal if one comes along for a guy who shouldn't be in the organization's long-term plans anyway. For example I'd trade a guy like Axford for a young legit starting pitcher tomorrow if I could. We don't always have to buy MLB talent, it's alright to cycle talented MLB players back into talented prospects as well. I believe that starters > position players > bullpen, so I'll make trade up in value on that scale. In Axford's case I understand he's the best pitcher in the bullpen, but he'll ultimately also be the most expensive and least utilized. In Hart's case he'll be 30 next year, he's likely through his peak as a player, now is the perfect time to sell high on a player like that. I only want to have to players signed through their 30/31 year old seasons, which is why I always advocate trying to lockup a core player early and buy out some FA years, then let someone else overpay for the player for what they've done and not what they are going to do. The difference here I guess is that I don't get attached to any players anymore, just the team. My brother asked me during the post season if there were any Brewer players that I rooted for anymore... I honestly didn't have one guy, Axford was probably the closest, I root hard for all of the guys that come up through the system but I don't single any of them out anymore, I wouldn't buy their jersey or memorbelia, not like when I lived and died with every Sexson or Burnitz AB, or every Hardy/Hart AB when they first came up, or how I loved Cooper, Molitor, and Yount through grade school in the 80s. I just don't have that attachment to individual players like I used to so I'm willing to move anyone for better long-term value.

I don't agree with that assessment at all. Signing Weeks didn't make Lawrie expendable, impact bats are rarely ever expendable. LaPorta was a 1B only type player and the Brewers had Fielder there for 3 more years in 2008, not to mention scouting reports talked of major holes in his swing and the organization still had Gamel, Cain, and Lawrie who projected to be everyday players. Lawrie was athletic enough to play anywhere on the diamond, he wasn't limited to 2B in the same way that Gennett is limited to 2B, and after his trade there wasn't a single impact hitter between A and AAA. Gamel is still in the system, I still believe that he will hit, but doesn't qualify to be a prospect anymore. If the organization truly thought that Lawrie was expendable because he was only a 2B... well that's the problem with how the organization is developing talent on full display. Instead of working to find a player's best natural position, they put bad defenders at premium positions and tell them they need to get better without taking the time to adequately develop those skills. Once again, no one really worked hard with Gamel until he hit AA... he had be in the organization for 3 years by then. Nichols had Brantley DH through the low minors just to get his bat in line-up everyday because he was playing with a bunch of OF prospects. How hard would it have been to rotate all 4 players through the 3 OF spots and DH so they all got their ABs and defensive work in at the same time? Brantley who turned out to be the only MLB player in that group didn't play OF for 2 years wasting time at 1B/DH. It's just stupid, it's horrible mismanagement of resources, and it's one of the reasons the Brewers as a team are horrible defensively. The organization simply hasn't made developing the fundamentals of the game a priority, maybe it's changing now, but I don't see it with the same people in charge. People will talk about attitude issues with Lawrie as well, the same argument as Gamel, but we just simply can't give impact talent away without getting it in return. Again, Marcum is one of the few soft tossers I've latched onto, long before he was in Milwaukee, I have posts about him going back years (I still can't believe Toronto had Bush, Jackson, Marcum, and McGowan and we took Bush/Jackson), but there's simply no way Marcum for Lawrie was an even trade talent wise. Lawrie has the tools to be a 30/30 guy, Marcum get's the most of his talent utilizing a great change and good command.

I wouldn't say with any certainty that Melvin won't extend Marcum. Personally, I think it comes down to Greinke or Marcum, but as I've posted many times I wouldn't resign either for various reasons. Marcum fits the mold of Melvin's FA starting pitcher signings to a "T", and he already has a relationship with the player.

I've never understood all the Gamel bashing around here. It was obvious Macha's staff didn't like him and leaked a ton of negative press about him through TH and JSO, but the dude can hit. Once Melvin extended Hart and settled on and then tried to extend McGehee, where was Gamel going to play? His attitude might really suck, I don't know him personally, but seriously, where was he going to play? I've never been in favor of calling up a talent like him to be a bench player, why waste service time while waiting for an opportunity to play? It drove me nuts when Hart sat behind Mench who was just awful. Gamel's defensive issues at 3rd are more a reflection on the organization's development priorities than on the player, he has all the natural tools to be an excellent 3B. What player have the Brewers brought up since Hardy (a natural) who was a good defender? Look at the list... Hart, Braun, Weeks, Fielder, Lucroy, Escobar... Escobar had all the tools to be a great defender and came into that role this year. Lucroy has made decent strides, but he's maybe average as a C. What minor leaguer has made great improvement from one year to the next from a defensive standpoint in our system? Gennett is still a terrible defender, Lawrie was a terrible defender, Green isn't a plus defender, Gamel wasn't a good defender... Cain (a natural) was a plus defender and if he's not manning CF for KC next year something will be wrong. Ohh, Cain will be 26 next year, but I guess his age and lack opportunity means that he won't be a productive MLB player either? Axford was 26 when he got his first shot for the Brewers as well. I've been arguing for a long time that the Brewers need more talent so they could make decisions based on talent over the long-term, rather than making decisions based almost purely from a cost standpoint. Cain didn't get a shot because the organization invested in Gomez, then he got his shot when Gomez was so awful that the organization didn't have a choice and performed well only to be traded to another organization to get stuck behind Cabrera who had a career year. I don't want to rehash what a horrible job I think the organization has done cycling talent, but sometimes a player's opportunity is a more a function of what's in front him and decisions made beyond a player's control than a reflection on his true talent. How posters on this forum have only wanted to acquire veterans because they wanted to compete for the playoffs? How many posts in any of the various threads on this forum are about acquiring young inexperienced talent? Where's any history of Melvin building around inexperienced youth? He was forced to early in Milwaukee just because of how talented the players were that Jack Z had drafted, but that's about it.

Gamel is 2 WAR player with his bat alone, he's league average (depending on the position), unless he completely tanks which seems unlikely. I have no problem projecting him to hit over .260, OBP over .330, and SLG over .440. Those are extremely conservative numbers and he'd still put up a .770 OPS. He could easily provide positive value with his glove as well which is something Fielder has never done. He's an above average talent all the way around, he may never be a super star, and he certainly may tank, but he's twice as talented as a guy like McGehee and I for one would like to see him get a full time gig in Milwaukee for 2012. I'd rather not put him in the OF, 1B would be a better destination. I'm not fond of the position musical chairs the organization has played with Hart and I'd rather not see Gamel transition out there as well.

MLEs.... whatever. How about we give a kid a chance to play before we make definitive claims about what their MLB production will be. I despise the MLE argument with a passion, it's just a standard deduction based on historical averages, and no 2 players are the same.

In baseball the pitcher is in complete control of the game as he gets to choose pitch and location, everyone is just reacting to the events he initiates. Of course there is good hitting, but good hitting is taking advantage of an opportunity that presents itself, very few hits in a game are going to come on what would be qualified as a good pitcher's pitch. I'm not one to make excuses for performance, nor did I have time to watch every pitch in every game, but I will say that I didn't see much good pitching, I saw hitters taking advantage of bad location. One can blame the umpires or whatever one chooses to conjure up as a reason, but the simple truth is that every single MLB hitter will crush pitches up in the zone over the middle of the plate or they wouldn't be MLB players in the first place.

Everyone in the lineup doesn't have to hit HRs to contribute offensively, and regardless you're comparing Schafer to Gomez and Morgan, not a Mike Trout. 33 is firmly on the wrong side of the injury nexus, especially post steroid era. Morgan's body type and skill set don't scream rapid decline or injury risk, but at the same time he's purely a stop gap measure, he has no long-term future with the club given his age. He's replaceable in the same way that McGehee has always been replaceable, these aren't the types of players an organization should build around. edit. Should have read the entire thread first, paul already said most of this, my bad.

We'll be lucky to get any first round picks as compensation.... we need teams in the top half of the standings to our FAs (the rich getting richer).

I think you underestimate Heyward's talent and value to the Braves.

The NFL and MLB are two very different sports. I think most teams would rather have experienced players playing on a playoff contending team. That's not to say that some young guys can't step in to fill holes, but we won't fill every hole with a rookie. It's just not gonna happen.Because having veteran players with no experience helped so much this post season? To me this is akin to the "prospects fail" retread argument tossed around constantly on this board. Yes young players are going to have their ups and downs... but young teams have consistently made it to World Series over the last 10 years, something the Brewers haven't done, with much more efficient payrolls I might add. For some reason people seem to have this notion that players are actually "developed" through the minor leagues but that's not what happens in this organization. There have been some nice success stories pitching wise since Lee Tunnel came over, Axford adding 5 mph is a good one, but who was the last good defender the team actually developed? The only good defenders to come through the system were naturals. There simply aren't enough coaches or time to give every player individual instruction on a daily basis, as such the minor leagues in the Brewers system is largely "trial by fire". The reason MLB and the NFL are vastly different is because at least in the Packers' case, their young players get quality instruction on and off the field 4 days during the week. I doubt any single minor leaguer gets 4 days of individual instruction during the season, especially when the teams are on the road. Sam Shields could rise from UDFA athlete to playmaker over the course of the season because of quality coaching on a daily basis, an athletic but raw player like D'Vo isn't afforded that same opportunity. A rather large part of it is the difference in how the leagues operate, but the simple truth is that the minor leagues have always been more about players figuring it out on their own than quality player development. The salaries, food spreads (nutrition), and athletic development leave quite a bit to be desired compared to the other professional leagues. The root cause of this problem of not having enough young players to fill holes is simple, the team hasn't kept the pipeline full. The entirety of the 2nd wave of prospects that could have filled holes was traded in various moves since 2007 with the exception of Gamel. I don't want to rehash every move and the available alternatives at the time, but it the situation didn't have to become as dire pitching wise as it did, and we didn't have to use all our prospects to buy proven MLB players. I realize that's what Melvin does, but that doesn't mean that there isn't another way that could be just as successful, if not have greater sustained success, and be much more economical as well.

I'm not sure the pitching will maintain, the Brewers only used 6 starting pitchers all year didn't they? That sort good luck health wise doesn't come around all that often.

I didn't participate much the last 12 weeks but I still read the forums here and there. Thanks for another good season bf.netters.

I won't at all. I've always been indifferent to him, I appreciate his offense but he's plays horrible defense and with Boras as his agent he was never going to stick around. I have a hard time getting attached to any particular players with FA.

No, Melvin has always been a SLG first GM. I still holding out hope he's not retained and the organization goes a different direction. If he stays it will be more of the same... FA pitching, trading for established MLB talent, etc... he's done the same everywhere he's been.

This is probably the closest statement to reality.... Hart for love of all things good make a freaking simple play... At rate, I haven't seen much bad luck in this series, more missed opportunities. Every pitcher is going to make mistakes, do you take advantage or don't you? Do you make the defensive plays or don't you? It's not bad luck, it's poor play at inopportune times. And another 2 errors... allowing the batter to first and the other runner to 3rd. I said they couldn't possibly play worse defensively, I was wrong.

Well we did play in the worst division in baseball, after the sell-offs and 2nd half collapses the Brewers didn't face much stiff competition until mid to late Sept. Yo isn't an ace, he's a solid #2, and for some reason it drives me nuts when people refer to him as such. He simply doesn't pitch deep enough into games on a consistent basis, he averages 6 1/3 per game. He did a great job reducing his walks, he added 1/3 of inning per game over last years pace, he's definitely still improving, but he's still clearly not an ace. I'm watching way more of this game than I intended to.

Apparently the teams are only allowed to hit HRs today.

thank goodness we got the bad Jackson tonight as well, he never pitches well against the Brewers. Lucroy has been one of my guys for a long time... but I thought young players won't produce in the postseason?

Glad I turned on the game in time to see that Furcal HR, at least STL only scored 1 run when I was watching.... *sigh*

What the heck Furcal... the guy only hits homers against the Brewers. Friggen conspiracy.

The way Marcum has pitched of late has me very nervous about this game. I'm going to work on football and check in every once in a while to see how the game is going, yes I'll be ducking the game somewhat, but for some reason I don't even want to watch. I dreaded coming back to Milwaukee down 3-2 with Marcum on the mound and my opinion hasn't changed. The good news is that the Brewers can't possibly play as bad as they did on Friday night, the game wasn't even worth watching in the 30 minutes it takes to watch on the DVR Saturday (I'm kind of busy on Friday nights).