TheCrew07

X, I haven't been nor will I ever be concerned with creating holes to acquire a meaningful pitcher. I, unlike yourself, would have been fine with Escobar, I've never viewed his AA campaign as an outlier, I've viewed him as a player on the rise, and have repeatedly posted about the positive offensive trends in his career as he moves up levels. I've also been of the opinion that Escobar won't take the next significant step as a hitter until he quits messing around with winter ball, I'd like him to add some muscle to his wiry frame, but I have no idea if he will, but he never will playing winter ball, there just isn't time enough. In the off season outside of Escobar I wouldn't have been happy with a Counsell stop gap, I would have been upset with that. I would have been alright with Hall moving back to SS for a season or 2 and Gamel coming up to play 3B full time. Of course as it turned out Counsell would have been the better option, so I would have been wrong. A stop gap FA SS wouldn't have bothered me either as I believe it's easier to get affordable production from position players than pitchers in FA. How would Hardy have more value at mid-season next year, than he would have had last off season? Any way you slice it Hardy's peak value is past us, unless he goes on some offensive tear next season that no one is going to predict where he suddenly puts up a .900+ OPS over 200+ ABs. Melvin has backed himself into a place where it's unrealistic to expect Hardy to resign, there's no garuantee he'll be a type A, so it appears the best value for Melvin to get the most value out of JJ is to trade him. So again, if we were going to end up here in a place where our best alternative is to trade him, then he should have been moved when his value was at it's highest. This has nothing to do with JJ having a down year, even if with a similar offensive season his value would have diminished as a glorified rental player. I just don't think the SS situation like the pitching situtation was handled very well at all, no aggressive moves were made in either situation.

Fail. That is all. edit. Mr. QL beat me to it.

I have a bad feeling about this, my dislike for Vargas' pitching style aside.

I haven't been right about about the players since I started posting but I'll take another shot. I'm guessing Rivas and Anundsen will share the honor for pitchers, or Anundsen wins it outright because his raw stats are just a tad better than Rivas. Bowman has had a surprisingly good season as well, he's over 130 IP with a rosey 2.60 ERA, but his peripheral's aren't all that great at BC. Peralta might sneak into the discussion as well, only Jeffress had a better K/9 in the entire organization... if Peralta makes the discussion, Scarpetta probably deserves a mention too. Hitting wise I'm guessing Schafer. Farris deserves to be in the discussion as his torrid August exceeded at least my personal expectations. Heether cooled off but deserves to be in the dicussion (.902 OPS). It wouldn't surprise me if a top prospect like Lawrie (.802 OPS at WI), Gamel (.839 OPS) or Lucroy (.798 OPS) were given the award either.

Yes he is, Macha is closer to Dusty Baker than he is Yost. I still think that other than his bullpen stupidity Yost got a raw deal around here.

Escobar doesn't hit for enough power to bring back pitching all by his lonesome. I have to believe Hardy will be unwilling to do anything team friendly after the AAA situation was handled so stupidly... they should have left him down there more than the minimum so the front office at least had an argument that it was a performance related move. Warranted or not, it's obvious now that the team had made the move for what I would consider the wrong reason. If Melvin was so intent on trading Hardy (which seems like the only possible scenario now as he removed the possibility of resigning Hardy) then he should have done it when Hardy's value was at it's peak. The pitching situation and the situation at SS are a mess and were both handled in the worst possible way.

I think I am going to be ill. and not in a good way.I was done with Macha a while ago, I'm ready for him to be gone. If a player doesn't take off and hit from the get go it doesn't appear that Macha is going to give him a fair chance to earn a job. How can he be projecting next year's lineup already? It might appear that I don't like Melvin as well, but that's not the case, I just wanted him to be more aggressive going after pitching talent. Hopefully Macha is fired this off season, if not then I'll be hoping that McGehee/Hardy get packaged for pitching so Macha is forced to play some of the young kids. I would hope that Kendell doesn't get resigned either so Macha isn't tempted to run him out there every 4 out of 5 days

Cappy is only hitting 83, 84 with his fastball. I wouldn't count on him as a starter depth unless he can gain some velocity back. He can get hitters out in the low minors by locating his off speed effectively, but it will be a different story as he moves up. Cody is more likely to be depth than Cappy, he'll be back in AAA next season and is a similar pitcher at this point.

Has there ever been a season where so many intriguing position player prospects got injured? My goodness.

Based on what? He's improving and has hit more 30 XBHs each of the last 2 seasons. It's a mistake to automatically reduce his AAA numbers, the same way you did his AA line, while ignoring his physical talent. You were wrong about his AAA season and if you think he's a sub .700 OPS MLB hitter you'll be wrong again. Low .700s is probably reasonable for his first full season.

The Yuku bug that takes you to a blank page isntead of the first new reply might be the single most irritating issue in Yuku. I used have specific threads that were an issue, now the problem seems to have spread. Though maybe it's because I'm reading topics that are more than 5 pages with 50 posts per page... I wonder if the bug is tied to the # of posts, hidden posts, and deleted posts in a thread. Regardless it's been well over a year, it's about time they fix this annoying issue.

did you happen to catch how hard Lasker was throwing?

No multiple prospects are traded for a single quality MLB player, historically prospects have not pulled MLB talent by themselves unless they were highly thought of pitchers like a Kazmir, and that was still a horrible trade, there's no way both sides got equal value. Sure you can acquire a Villy for a Franklin, but while Villy is a MLB pitcher, that's not the sort of deal thus team should be looking at this time, and it's not the sort of deal that works out very often. Not to mention Villy was pitching in A ball at the time of the trade. Escobar is an excellent prospect, but he's not a power prospect, and power players/prospects bring back pitching in 1 to 1 type deals of similar talent. Garza/Young, Hamilton/Volquez, Joyce/Jackson... on a side note, what's happened to Young, how do you hit 26 HRs as a 19 year old between AA-AAA and not continue to get better?

I doubt that very much, prospects bring back prospects, not established talent. It takes multiple prospects to pull an established player, or has in the past. edit. The reason Hardy would have brought prospects was the he was basically a rental. Now that they weaseled another year of FA I'm not sure what his return will be, but I doubt it's as high as it would have been prior to this season. A trade partner still has to take into account his horrible year at the plate, no one is going to pretend it didn't happen, it's just how much weight will it carry?

Odorizzi had a game score of 7... that's actually somewhat comical. The good news is that in his next outing he only has one way to go.

That's not really the way it works... he'll lose some speed and quickness eventually with age, but it doesn't have to be because he was bulking up, otherwise you'd have no 4.3, 4.2 40 time players in the NFL, sprinters wouldn't lift weights, etc.. If he trains correctly, adding muscle throughout his frame he'd be okay. Hardy didn't get slower because he lifted weights, he got slower because of that horrible ankle injury at that plate. I'm not going to sit here and say that Escobar will one day hit 20 HRs, I have no idea what his work ethic or career goals are. I will say though that he has a realistic chance of reaching the 20 HR plateau if he were to train properly in the off seasons instead of playing winter ball. That's what makes him so exciting as a prospect for me personally, he still has the potential to be so much better than he is.

With Lasker working 87-88, he's lost of some of his shine to me personally, pre draft he had hit 94 on some guns and was working around 90 consistently, I would have expected him to add velocity, not drop it. I'm as puzzled by that revelation as I am by Anundsen dropping 5 MPH after the draft. I guess Frederickson isn't working 94-96 like some profiles had him either, but at least he works mostly in the low 90s. And since Cappy is just pitching in the low to mid 80s now, he's going to have to get his velocity back to be any kind of MLB starter. He'll get kids out in the lower levels by locating his off speed for strikes, but like Cody I'm not sure that success will continue to translate as he works his way back up the chain.

Lame question, but using FF you have to click the Add Reply button to get all of the buttons... are you? If I don't need to add a link or insert some sort of flash item I just use the Quick Reply link. I think that's an option in your Yuku account setup where you can default the type of reply window you see, my is defaulted to the quick reply window.

I wasn't talking about "moved" as in to a different position, I meant moved as in traded for pitching. I still find it odd that I'm defending Escobar yet again... where's a true Escobar supporter like Mass Hass when I need him. The point is Escobar is going to give us all he's capable of. Right now he doesn't hit for enough power or walk enough, but he'll hit .275-.300, steal some bases, play good D, and has a cannon for an arm. He has his warts, but he's a pretty fantastic 4 tool prospect. He'll likely struggle early here, but he'll come around, he always makes adjustments... Looking at his frame he could add 25-35 LBs of muscle pretty easily without affecting his quickness or speed, in fact he could actually pick up a step if he trained properly. Will he work in the weight room to become a better all around hitter/player? I have no idea, if he doesn't then he was as ready as he's ever going to be this off season, he just hasn't made significant strides with his BB rate nor is he ready to hit for power. He may need to be humbled a bit by MLB pitching to change his ways, then again, maybe he never will. Escobar doesn't have to hit like JJ did in 2008 to be a viable alternative, he never did. Both Escobar and the mythical pitcher Hardy would have been traded for just needed to provide more WAR than Hardy did by himself to make trading Hardy worthwhile. I had no idea Hardy would stink, I thinking he was a 4ish WAR player, so both Escobar and the pitcher had to be a little bit better than that combined for the team to be better. The offense wouldn't have been better, but the team could have been, and sometimes I think people around here get way too hung up on player vs player comparisons instead of comparing team vs team. Maybe I'm way off base here but shouldn't we be building for the best possible team? Getting the best possible player at each position doesn't necessarily provide the best the team, and I think this situation illustrates that point perfectly. For example, for the sake of argument, say Escobar is a 2 WAR player and Hardy is a 4 WAR player. Hardy is 2 WAR upgrade over Escobar... let's say Hardy is traded for a 3 WAR pitcher. Escobar and the pitcher would be worth 5 WAR together. Hardy is clearly the superior player at his position, but isn't 5 WAR better than 4 WAR? It's entirely possible to down grade 1 position but become a better team overall. I'm honestly not sure how else to explain it, I'm not one to get caught up in player vs. player at any given position, I'm interested in the best possible team WAR. I'm not talking about moving players all over the diamond and playing them out of position, I'm talking about making strategic moves here and there that don't look like much on the surface but improve the overall quality of the team. I think comparing Hardy to Escobar is extremely superficial, and in doing so people miss the big picture. (edit: fixed small font --1992)

I'd love to offer a solution of exactly who I'd offer for whom, but as I've said many times I'm having trouble coming up with deals this season, I have a hard time reading market value trade wise as MLB trends back towards pitching and defense. Everyone knew TB has a surplus, I guessed Sonnanstine was going to be the one traded and missed badly, had we heard Jackson was available I would have been interested in flipping Hart or Hart + for him, as he's the type of ceiling guy I'm into. I wouldn't have guessed he'd pitch so well this season, I would have figured high 3s or very low 4s for an ERA, but again he had the power stuff and improving peripherals I'd be into. He's the type of guy I'd be looking for if I was Melvin, someone with plenty talent who's results haven't necessarily caught up with his talent but is trending positively. I sort of like the Arrieta suggestion from the transaction forum, I'm just not sure Hardy would pull him. Arrieta is sort of a high risk/high reward type, but if his velocity is holding in the low 90s and it's true he's made strides with his change-up he's pretty exciting. I'd like that move even better if Maddux was around, he was very good simplifying mechanics and improving control, which is something Arrieta has struggled with some. I don't know enough about Bosio as a pitching coach to get a read on how he'd do with a player like that, but there's only one way to find out. I guess my point is simply I'm not acquiring name players like Peavy or Halladay, nor am I into acquiring established successful young pitchers as most of them are staff aces and far too expensive to acquire. I'd be looking for guys with upside on the rise or players that I felt I could tinker mechanics and make a break through with. Arrieta is probably a 2 best case, just based on stuff, but as I've said many times I think solid #2s are the best value in baseball. Worst case Arrieta would be an above average bullpen arm. The question of who's going to be available... that's a tough question to project right now, and one I don't think I could answer without the benefit of insider information, and I just don't have any connections in baseball circles.

Haha lame, I avoided VH because you specifically said it wasn't.... boo! lol. *sigh* I actually used it on the 2007 highlight film. I was going crazy trying to come up with a band that sounded like VH but wasn't. At least I listened to about 100 songs last night that I hadn't listened to in a long time.

I'm not sure why age is always brought up in regards to Parra. He lost most of 2 seasons in a row to injury, then was called up to Milwaukee after his perfect game in AAA to be hit by a pitch while batting, break a bone, and go right back on the DL. Last season was his first "full" (I'm using the term loosely since he broke down at the end) season in the last 4. Logan's point about 500 IP is right on the mark, sometimes age doesn't tell the story. Parra's results haven't come close to the level of his physical talent yet, he still has huge upside. I've been making the same comment about him forever, but it's still true. If he will just quit nibbling and attack hitters he'd be lights out. He doesn't need to throw 6 pitches, he needs to throw 3 and locate them all effectively. If I could put Dave Bush's intangibles in Manny Parra we'd have one hell of a pitcher. As far the deal, obviously I'm in favor of any realistic trade to acquire cost controlled top of the rotation pitching talent. I just don't have much faith in a deal getting done.

"Not Ready" is just an opinion that cannot be proven. It's pretty clear that Escobar has the talent to hit MLB pitching, people turned readiness into a debate about production when compared to Hardy, and one has nothing to do with the other. X's take about Escobar being more valuable at 28 than he will be at 22 is a valid concern that the team should address via contract extension. If Young can move to 3B for Andrus, then Hardy could have been moved in favor of Escobar. Alcides wasn't rushed to the big leagues and is plenty capable of putting up a similar line to what Andrus did. If Hardy hadn't struggled most would probably still be on the "Escobar isn't ready" bandwagon, even though one has nothing to do with the other. If Hardy performed or didn't perform all that was going to happen by him playing in Milwaukee this season would be that his trade value goes down the closer he gets to FA. The same thing that will happen with Prince unless a bidding war breaks out for his services.

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