2007 Vent Thread, Part 8

[Brewer Fever]

I can't believe the board hasn't exploded with this ridiculous lineup today. Counsell and Dillon have no business in this lineup this time of year. I thought all those days off throughout the year were for September so that the guys would be able to play every day down the stretch. When I saw that Counsell and Dillon were due up in the bottom of the first I blew a gasket. Then they both proceeded to strike out and I felt compelled to come here. Counsell I blame on Melvin. I knew the day he was signed Yost would overuse him. Melvin should have seen this coming. As for Dillon, I don't think Melvin ever had any idea that Yost would bat him in the 3 -hole in September. I'm seriously contemplating ways to kidnap Ned Yost and keep him away from this team. Anyone have any idea where he lives?

 

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Continued from:

 

viewtopic.php?p=238061#p238061

 

Original Lead:

 

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=382

[Brian the Automator]

I can't believe the board hasn't exploded with this ridiculous lineup today.

There are a few posts about it in the IGT. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me unless Braun's banged up.

 

[Brewer Fever]

I can't believe the board hasn't exploded with this ridiculous lineup today.

There are a few posts about it in the IGT. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me unless Braun's banged up.

 

 

Yeah, I spent 10 minutes looking for any news on Braun before I posted anything. I figured a minor tweak for Braun would be the only logical explanation. Short of an injury, this lineup is absurd. It's absurd in April and it's downright suicidal in September.

[stoutdude04]

I don't believe Ned brought that up as a reason though, and that is where the problem lies.

 

I forgot that there has to be reasons behind everything.

[wallus]

I think Braun needed a day off and this was a perfect opportunity to do so. Also, I agree with stoutdude04, we do not know everything that is going on and the circumstances behind every move.

[Brewer Fever]

Now is not the time for days off. Braun is not a pansy. And a September pennant race is most definitely not the "perfect opportunity" for this nonsense.

[1992casey]

Official reasons for days off...

 

Braun: struggling a bit, has had only one day off all year, young players can benefit from being on bench and watching

 

Gross: Hall has had success vs. Belisle

 

Jenkins: struggling a bit

[Brewer Fever]

Only problem with that is ignoring all of the scheduled days off recently. Didn't Carlos Lee play 162 games while he was with us? I'm glad to see Dillon get that big hit, but to me it's just another in a series of Yost head scratchers that ranks among the few that might work out.

[DougJones43]

I don't believe Ned brought that up as a reason though, and that is where the problem lies.

 

I forgot that there has to be reasons behind everything.

 

Are you saying that you think it's okay for managers to make decisions that don't involve reason? Why even have a manager then? Maybe the Brewers can just buy a magic 8-ball and keep in down in the dugout.

 

"Is Greg Aquino the man we want on the mound in a close game during a pennant race? Will Kevin Mench get a hit off of Ryan Dempster?? Should we attempt an ill-conceived double steal that is certain to kill this rally???"

 

 

http://mlblogs.mlblogs.com/photos/uncategorized/8ball.gif

[stoutdude04]

Are you saying that you think it's okay for managers to make decisions that don't involve reason? Why even have a manager then? Maybe the Brewers can just buy a magic 8-ball and keep in down in the dugout.

 

Did I say its OK for managers to make decisions without reasons? Never, you may want to reread it. I said there doesn't ALWAYS need to be reasons. Sometimes a gut feeling works, sometimes not. Stats are good for the most part, I never said that they werent. Sometimes you have got to go out on a limb. Today, Counsell and Dillon have the hits. Weird, stats would have said not to go with them. He did, it worked. Weird.

 

You seem to know most everything. Ill expect to see you in a dugout somewhere in 08.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

[DougJones43]

I never said all of the reasoning needed to be completely stat-based. I think at the very least though, simple logic should be applied to every decision. As far as Counsell and Dillon go, there should be some kind of reason as to why they played. Whether it be some kind of matchup advantage, somebody's banged up or needs rest, etc. If the reason is just "I don't know, I just felt like playing them," then it's silly even if they do have hits today.

 

Making too many decisions based on your "gut" might work out sometimes, but eventually over the course of a season it will almost always fail, and logic will win out.

[wallus]

"Now is not the time for days off. Braun is not a pansy. And a September pennant race is most definitely not the "perfect opportunity" for this nonsense."

 

This is the most games Braun has ever played in his lifetime. I never said Braun is a pansy which is pretty childish to even infer that. Braun has been struggling at the plate the last two days and there was a right handed pitcher on the mound for a daygame after a night game. That makes more than enough sense for me.

[stoutdude04]

As far as Counsell and Dillon go, there should be some kind of reason as to why they played. Whether it be some kind of matchup advantage, somebody's banged up or needs rest, etc. If the reason is just "I don't know, I just felt like playing them," then it's silly even if they do have hits today.

 

I agree with you. I for one think Braun could use a day off. As someone has already mentioned he has played a lot and is only a rookie. No reasons why we shouldn't expect someone to step up for him. Happened to work so far today. I dont think Ned just threw those two in just because. If he did, I will be behind you whole heartedly.

[wallus]

" never said all of the reasoning needed to be completely stat-based. I think at the very least though, simple logic should be applied to every decision."

Well "simple" reasoning would say that you would never take out a player and give them a day off. But that is not real life and sometimes there are other reasons for decisions. I can easily tell you want to get rid of Yost but what manager does use your "simple logic" everytime? It is apparent you should apply for the position.

[DougJones43]

I see things have reverted back to the "could you do better?" argument. I ask that the manager think about his decisions, and suddenly I think I should be the manager? Come on now.

[DougJones43]

As far as Counsell and Dillon go, there should be some kind of reason as to why they played. Whether it be some kind of matchup advantage, somebody's banged up or needs rest, etc. If the reason is just "I don't know, I just felt like playing them," then it's silly even if they do have hits today.

 

I agree with you. I for one think Braun could use a day off. As someone has already mentioned he has played a lot and is only a rookie. No reasons why we shouldn't expect someone to step up for him. Happened to work so far today. I dont think Ned just threw those two in just because.

 

I don't think so either, that's why I brought it up. You implied it was a decision that was made without the use of reason, and I was pointing out that such decisions do involve reason. Maybe not a statistical reason, but a reason nevertheless. You began this entire thing by stating that managers don't really need to use reason for all their decisions.

[wallus]

Well you never give Yost any credit for anything. Come on now.

[stoutdude04]

I don't think so either, that's why I brought it up. You implied it was a decision that was made without the use of reason, and I was pointing out that such decisions do involve reason. Maybe not a statistical reason, but a reason nevertheless. You began this entire thing by stating that managers don't really need to use reason for all their decisions.

 

You are right. I should have said it differently What I implied was that sometimes it is just a gut thing. If you use the "gut" excuse too much its not good. Sometimes, its good and I am ok with it.

[DougJones43]

Well you never give Yost any credit for anything. Come on now.

 

Sure I do. I've given Ned credit for plenty of things, including using Cordero in the 8th yesterday. But I see you've resorted to "repeating" what I say. This seems to be another case where the debate has fallen into ad hominem attacks rather than an actual defense of Yost, so there might not be much point in continuing this discussion.

[DougJones43]

I don't think so either, that's why I brought it up. You implied it was a decision that was made without the use of reason, and I was pointing out that such decisions do involve reason. Maybe not a statistical reason, but a reason nevertheless. You began this entire thing by stating that managers don't really need to use reason for all their decisions.

 

You are right. I should have said it differently What I implied was that sometimes it is just a gut thing. If you use the "gut" excuse too much its not good. Sometimes, its good and I am ok with it.

 

 

Fair enough. I can get on board with that. I feel Ned uses his gut far too often, but that's just my personal opinion.

[wallus]

Well I just get annoyed how you put Ned under the microscope all the time and I was venting about that. Is Ned a great manager or even good? Not really, but he gets too much heat by all of the "experts" on this board.

[DougJones43]

This is a message board. I post my opinions about Brewer related stuff. If you don't like reading my posts, I suggest you skip over them. Unless you get a kick out of annoying yourself.

[wallus]

I really didn't know this was a message board, thanks for helping me out. Trust me, if there was an ignore button you could use for a specific poster I would use it. I am glad you get a kick out of living out your "glory" days by criticizing the manager on the internet.

[hawing]

Venting is fine in this designated thread, but please try to keep your vents about baseball and the Brewers and not each other.

 

Incidentally, each post has an Interact drop down menu in the lower left corner. One of the menu choices is "Ignore User's Posts." So that option happens to be available.

[DougJones43]

I am glad you get a kick out of living out your "glory" days by criticizing the manager on the internet.

 

I don't know what that means. I want the Brewers to win, so it disappoints me when our manager makes decisions that I feel hurt our chances of victory. I express my opinions on Brewer stuff in this message board, just like you do.

 

 

Trust me, if there was an ignore button you could use for a specific poster I would use it.

 

Why do you need an ignore button? Is it really that difficult to just not read something?