2016-04-06 Giants (Samardzija) at Brewers (Jungmann), 12:40 PM CDT [Brewers win, 4-3; avoid 0-162 season]

[trwi7]

Hopefully JohnBriggs is consistent and says that's where batting a guy like Gennett 2nd kills you.

[jerichoholicninja]

Hopefully JohnBriggs is consistent and says that's where batting a guy like Gennett 2nd kills you.

 

Doubt it.

[jerichoholicninja]

That's where a guy like Carter helps you.

[pacopete4]

BOOOOOOM!!!! CARTER #1 of the YEAR!!!

[torts]

DINGERZ!!!

[MrTPlush]

That's why you hit a guy like Carter is the 5 spot.

 

 

He can hit solo HRs anywhere in the line up. But nice try.

[pacopete4]

Jungmann quietly putting together a nice start. If he and Nelson can give them a formable 1-2 punch at the top and we can get serviceable out of the other three spots. It won't be that bad to watch this season.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Am I the only one who's not totally on board with this "hitting the pitcher in the 8 spot" business?

[QuevedosTongue]

Jeez, I hope Jungmann isn't hurt. Getting pulled after 80 pitches seems weird.

[JohnBriggs12]

Jeez, I hope Jungmann isn't hurt. Getting pulled after 80 pitches seems weird.

 

I'm with you on that. This isn't KC's bullpen and Jungmann was sailing along pretty well.

[logan82]

Am I the only one who's not totally on board with this "hitting the pitcher in the 8 spot" business?

Yes.

[QuevedosTongue]

Am I the only one who's not totally on board with this "hitting the pitcher in the 8 spot" business?

 

I don't think it's a big deal. I kind of get the logic if Santana is going to lead off all the time. I don't think it's a good idea to give anybody who can't hit more ABs, but the SPs on this team aren't likely to get more than 2 ABs in a game anyway. I just don't think it's a big deal whether the pitcher hits 8th or 9th.

[Lee16]

Hitting your pitcher anywhere but 9th is just foolish, I don't care how a manager tries to explain it, it's just bad baseball.

[pacopete4]

Really the only time it means anything is the first time through your order. After that it is like your 9th batter is your lead off and so on.

[scuttlebutts]

And we just found another way to give a game away. Quality starts in two of the games and neither pitcher gets a win.

[JohnBriggs12]

Jeez, I hope Jungmann isn't hurt. Getting pulled after 80 pitches seems weird.

 

If Counsel's thinking, "well we have an off day tomorrow, everyone in the pen is available, and with just 4 starters, lets limit Jungmann's innings", I think it's wrongheaded.

[QuevedosTongue]

And we just found another way to give a game away. Quality starts in two of the games and neither pitcher gets a win.

 

Who brought the good news bear? Somebody get him some honey.

[1992casey]

Am I the only one who's not totally on board with this "hitting the pitcher in the 8 spot" business?

The statheads say that the numbers compared to hitting the pitcher ninth are more or less neutral. And Craig Counsell says the numbers are more or less neutral. So given all of that neutrality, I'm more or less neutral on the idea.

[fondybrewfan]

They sure are grounding into double plays at less than ideal times at an alarming rate so far. RISP not good.

[MrTPlush]

I don't care what anyone says Domingo Santana does not have this oh so great defense everyone likes to think he has. Strong arm? Sure. Everything else in his defensive game is pretty questionable though. It isn't bad by any means, but it doesn't really stand out as something notable.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Am I the only one who's not totally on board with this "hitting the pitcher in the 8 spot" business?

The statheads say that the numbers compared to hitting the pitcher ninth are more or less neutral. And Craig Counsell says the numbers are more or less neutral. So given all of that neutrality, I'm more or less neutral on the idea.

 

 

Each spot in the batting order gets 19-ish more plate appearances per season than the spot before it. Depending on who your #8 guy is (Villar?) don't you want that .650 or .700 OPS guy getting 19 more plate appearances than a spot that's going to produce a .300 -ish OPS?

 

I guess if the whole thing is "it doesn't matter"...... why do it? I get the whole "Santana is the leadoff guy and he has power and we'd like to have someone on base when Santana bats", but how many times is the pitcher going to come up with 2 outs and a guy on base because he's hitting 8th? At that point it's just a diminishing return.

 

To me it seems like fiddling around with something that doesn't need to be. It's doing something "out of the box" just to do it. That's all I'm getting at.

[wildcat83]

Hopefully 80 is not the new 100 which was the new 120... when it comes to pitch counts. If he's on an 80 pitch limit in his first regular season start then he wasn't stretched out enough in spring training. There was no sensible reason to remove him at 80 pitches.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't care what anyone says Domingo Santana does not have this oh so great defense everyone likes to think he has. Strong arm? Sure. Everything else in his defensive game is pretty questionable though. It isn't bad by any means, but it doesn't really stand out as something notable.

 

 

I think the key in all of this was "compared to Khris Davis"

[wildcat83]

Am I the only one who's not totally on board with this "hitting the pitcher in the 8 spot" business?

The statheads say that the numbers compared to hitting the pitcher ninth are more or less neutral. And Craig Counsell says the numbers are more or less neutral. So given all of that neutrality, I'm more or less neutral on the idea.

 

 

Each spot in the batting order gets 19-ish more plate appearances per season than the spot before it. Depending on who your #8 guy is (Villar?) don't you want that .650 or .700 OPS guy getting 19 more plate appearances than a spot that's going to produce a .300 -ish OPS?

 

I guess if the whole thing is "it doesn't matter"...... why do it? I get the whole "Santana is the leadoff guy and he has power and we'd like to have someone on base when Santana bats", but how many times is the pitcher going to come up with 2 outs and a guy on base because he's hitting 8th? At that point it's just a diminishing return.

 

To me it seems like fiddling around with something that doesn't need to be. It's doing something "out of the box" just to do it. That's all I'm getting at.

 

The 19 at bats per season is diminished once the pitcher is pinch hit for and you have a position player batting anyways. If that is average of 2/3 of the way through the game then your 19 at bats per season become 12. To me if your talking 12 at bats per year then I agree with the more or less neutral on it.

[MrTPlush]

I don't care what anyone says Domingo Santana does not have this oh so great defense everyone likes to think he has. Strong arm? Sure. Everything else in his defensive game is pretty questionable though. It isn't bad by any means, but it doesn't really stand out as something notable.

 

 

I think the key in all of this was "compared to Khris Davis"

 

Many have been praising his defense here with no comparison to Khris Davis.