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    Could the Brewers Reunite with Brandon Woodruff, After All?


    Jake McKibbin

    Brandon Woodruff has yet to decide upon his destination for the upcoming season, should there be one at all. Factoring in the timing of the Brewers' competitive window, his price, and his injury prognosis, does it make sense to reunite with Woodruff?

    Image courtesy of © Jeff Hanisch-USA TODAY Sports

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    Brandon Woodruff's Brewers tenure ended (or was, at least, officially interrupted) in a cruelly unfortunate way. His being ruled out for most (if not all) of 2024 presents both an opportunity and a risk for the Brewers. He had a 2.28 ERA over 67 innings, creating 2.4 bWAR in roughly a third of Corbin Burnes's innings, but his injuries proved catastrophic for his chances of a nine-figure contract in free agency.

    What it provides the Brewers, however, is the chance to take a flyer on a high-upside pitcher to include in their rotation for multiple years from 2025 onward, at a reasonable price--during which time they’ll also hope to have lots of other talent in the form of Jackson Chourio and Jacob Misiorowski up and running in the major leagues. The risk, however, is sizable, and it remains to be seen whether this would be a worthy investment on their part.

    The Injury
    Despite Woodruff’s suggestions of a potential return in the second half of 2024, anterior capsule surgeries like the one he had typically require 12-14 months of rehab. There are many pitchers who have never been the same post-recovery. However, in more recent times, Julio Urias is a prime example of a pitcher returning to supreme form. He recorded a 2.49 ERA in almost 80 innings in 2019, then a 2.96 ERA across 185⅔ in 2021, an elite pitching performance. That being said, Urias was 20 when he had the operation, and the concern with Woodruff is twofold: 

    1. He’s now 30 years old, still young for those with this surgery, but it’s his second serious shoulder injury in one season
    2. Woodruff is a pitcher who relies on elite velocity and spin to overpower hitters with his fastball. Any loss in arm speed in the recovery process could be catastrophic for his performance levels.

    While there is no certainty in anything when it comes to the shoulder, the fact that he has been so injury-prone this year creates a serious doubt as to whether he can stay healthy for a full season, never mind perform alongside the cream of the crop at the top level of the sport.

    The Brewers Competitive Window
    Looking at the Brewers' prospective starting rotation and considering their offensive struggles last year, it remains to be seen just how competitive they can be in 2024, meaning that 2025-2027 might be a perfect time for them to have an ace in their back pocket. With a year for Chourio to develop in the majors, and the expected arrivals of high upside talent of pitchers Jacob Misiorowski, Robert Gasser, Carlos F. Rodriguez and maybe even Josh Knoth (to go along with Aaron Ashby and Freddy Peralta), the rotation could be an area of serious strength during that window. 

    That being said, players like Woodruff do not come around often, and to have someone of his caliber (should he be fit and healthy) immediately in line to replace Burnes over multiple years would be an incredible boost to their chances. Woodruff showed that he can be a Cy Young candidate when firing last year, including after his return from a subscapularis tear (also on the front of his shoulder).

    The Contract
    Earlier this winter, Tyler Mahle signed a two year, $22-million contract with the Texas Rangers, with $5.5 million due in the first year and $16.5 million coming in 2025, as well as potential incentives on innings totals that could stretch it out to a $27-million deal. There are a few differentiating factors between the two, however:

    • Mahle is scheduled to come back around the All-Star break in 2024, whereas Woodruff is highly unlikely to make any appearance
    • Woodruff is a tier above Mahle, who’s career-best season was 180 innings of 3.75-ERA ball in 2021
    • Woodruff was estimated to make $14 million in arbitration, before getting hurt, and $20 million in 2025 if he accepted a qualifying offer, meaning the Brewers cut ties at roughly $34 million over the two seasons--though, of course, a healthy Woodruff would have turned down that 2025 salary. 

    Factoring in each of the above, the Brewers will want to have Woodruff for at least two years of potential pitching availability, meaning any contract is likely to be either a three-year deal, or a not-too-team-friendly team option for a season or two after 2025.

    The price for one year of Woodruff's pitching, with all that’s up in the air, may be along the lines of $22 million, so if we use that as a benchmark and go down the team option route. If Woodruff got a deal for 2024 and 2025 for around $22 million in total, the Brewers may want a two-year team option at the end of the deal, as a return for their faith. It probably wouldn't be overly team-friendly, but the shortness of the contract will help. This would be somewhat unprecedented, but maybe a two-year team option worth $50 million would make sense, for a total value of $75 million or so across four seasons if the option were exercised.

    If we go down the straight three-year contract path, Woodruff is more likely to get a deal somewhere in the vicinity of $45-50 million, again using the length to avoid long-term financial crisis but also providing Woodruff with a contract that will set him up for life after baseball.

    Is it worth it?
    For two years of a fully fit and firing Brandon Woodruff in his prime, that’s a steal for the Brewers, but because the risk around him is massive, it's not a completely lopsided one. There is a significant possibility of recurring injuries that might provide something of a drag on a small-market team’s profitability and ability to invest in other resources during what should be prime seasons of competitiveness. The price may also be driven up by David Stearns (who seems intent on picking up as many former Brewers players as possible with the Mets) and the Yankees sniffing around.

    What do you think Brewer Fanatics? Would you make either one of these deals?

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    Brandon Sproat

    Milwaukee Brewers - MLB, RHP
    Sproat had a rough first appearance in a Brewers uniform (3 IP, 7 ER, 3 HR). On Thursday, he gave up one run on 4 hits and a walk over 6 2/3 innings. He struck out six Blue Jays batters.

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    With Tyler Mahle getting 2/22 in a similar position (return likely midseason) Woody should do a little better.

    If he would be open to it I would try and sign him to a 2 year deal based on innings, say 100k per inning maybe a base of 2 million this year and 6 next. If he throws 200 innings between the 2 years that is 28 million (maybe more if playoffs or with incentives) We are protected if he doesn't pitch much, could trade him half way easy next offseason if things dictate so. I am sure a big payroll team could just offer 30 guaranteed but maybe Woody wants to stay.

    • Like 1

    Maybe something along the lines of 2/25m? Both Woody and the Brewers know the seriousness of the procedure and recovery time, but in essence, $5m of that could be for 2024 'recovery pay' and the other $20m for 2025. The team is taking a risk and Woody should know this and consider it a fair deal.

    But of course, another team will invariably offer him 4/75m and he would probably take that.

    • Like 1
    Jake McKibbin
  • Brewer Fanatic Contributor
  • Posted

    1 hour ago, SF70 said:

    At 32-33-34 years old coming off shoulder injuries, the risk would too much for this SM team.

    If these shoulder injuries would have happened five years ago I might think differently, potentially having Woody for two or three years of his prime.

    You're probably right, but the team could do this deal on the flyer that it works out, and they have a set of relatively team friendly option years if it goes well. I think they'd need that cut off to take the gamble though.

     

    1 hour ago, jay87shot said:

    With Tyler Mahle getting 2/22 in a similar position (return likely midseason) Woody should do a little better.

    If he would be open to it I would try and sign him to a 2 year deal based on innings, say 100k per inning maybe a base of 2 million this year and 6 next. If he throws 200 innings between the 2 years that is 28 million (maybe more if playoffs or with incentives) We are protected if he doesn't pitch much, could trade him half way easy next offseason if things dictate so. I am sure a big payroll team could just offer 30 guaranteed but maybe Woody wants to stay.

    He'll likely need some guaranteed money to make the deal, as mitigation in case things do go sideways. However I do think the Mahle deal should work given Woodruff would basically be getting this season as an advance of next season's performance, so it's almost $22m for one season, with team options after that.

    It could be too pricey for the Brewers, but I genuinely believe that contract is one that's 50/50 as of now, and will only swing one way or the other depending on results. And it won't be a huge loss for either side given the cut off option for Brewers in 2025 or Woodruff gets taken under team option and makes a relatively fair amount over those seasons I'm what will likely be a young, prearbitration brewers rotation to make the space for his contract

    It just isn't going to happen with the Brewers.  Prior to his release, the Brewers went through these scenarios to see if there was a number that works for both the team and the player.  There obviously wasn't.  

    They also explored the trade market to see if another team would give value for the inside track to sign Woodruff beyond the 2024 season.  That didn't work either.  

    Woodruff is now free to explore other options.  It seems like a huge risk for a team to invest $20M to $30M for a potential of one year of a potentially diminished Brandon Woodruff.  This isn't to say some team won't take a chance.  But successful return to prior form is likely around 60% for this injury for a player of Woodruff's age.  The idea of a creative contract with options may make some sense to both team and player.  I wonder whether a team can buy secondary insurance on such a deal to mitigate their risk?    

    Jake McKibbin
  • Brewer Fanatic Contributor
  • Posted

    1 minute ago, Bashopolis said:

    It just isn't going to happen with the Brewers.  Prior to his release, the Brewers went through these scenarios to see if there was a number that works for both the team and the player.  There obviously wasn't.  

    They also explored the trade market to see if another team would give value for the inside track to sign Woodruff beyond the 2024 season.  That didn't work either.  

    Woodruff is now free to explore other options.  It seems like a huge risk for a team to invest $20M to $30M for a potential of one year of a potentially diminished Brandon Woodruff.  This isn't to say some team won't take a chance.  But successful return to prior form is likely around 60% for this injury for a player of Woodruff's age.  The idea of a creative contract with options may make some sense to both team and player.  I wonder whether a team can buy secondary insurance on such a deal to mitigate their risk?    

    To be fair any trade made would have almost been just for an arbitration of 14m plus any qualifying offer would have been accepted, meaning around 32m plus a trace piece to the brewers. So that wasn't going to work in hindsight, but was worth a shot to see if some eejits like the Angels would bite

    Also insurance sounds great but no company would do that cheaply, the premiums would be almost as costly as the contract in the first place.

    As I mentioned, the big thing here is the team options which could be a very handy piece.

     

    • Like 1
    26 minutes ago, Trax said:

     

     

    The only way a team like the Brewers can do it is with a team favorable deal.  It is possible.

    I always had the impression that he really enjoyed it here. Not Sophia-Minnaert-holding-a-mic-in-front-of-the-dugout-asking "Brandon, how awesome is it playing in Milwaukee?" enjoyment, but really, legitimately liked being a part of the community. So under the circumstances it would have to be incredibly team-friendly & I wouldn't bet on it, but also wouldn't totally rule it out.

    • Like 2
    36 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

    I always had the impression that he really enjoyed it here. Not Sophia-Minnaert-holding-a-mic-in-front-of-the-dugout-asking "Brandon, how awesome is it playing in Milwaukee?" enjoyment, but really, legitimately liked being a part of the community. So under the circumstances it would have to be incredibly team-friendly & I wouldn't bet on it, but also wouldn't totally rule it out.

    I did as well. I'd gladly give Woody a 3-year deal in the 45M range with incentives. I'm confident enough in the teams' ability to rehab arms/shoulders and in Woody's work ethic and previous durability that I'd feel comfortable there. It'd be a big risk, but it's tough to get top of the rotation-type arms. 

    The argument that it won't happen because...it didn't happen....it doesn't make sense to me. Also, we didn't waive him, we non-tendered him. That's a pretty big distinction. I think it's unlikely to happen, but of all the hypotheticals that have been thrown out, this seems like the most likely. 

    • Like 4
    16 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

    I did as well. I'd gladly give Woody a 3-year deal in the 45M range with incentives. I'm confident enough in the teams' ability to rehab arms/shoulders and in Woody's work ethic and previous durability that I'd feel comfortable there. It'd be a big risk, but it's tough to get top of the rotation-type arms. 

    The argument that it won't happen because...it didn't happen....it doesn't make sense to me. Also, we didn't waive him, we non-tendered him. That's a pretty big distinction. I think it's unlikely to happen, but of all the hypotheticals that have been thrown out, this seems like the most likely. 

    I'm a bit of the same on this. Give Woodruff $5 million in 2024, $17.5 million a year in 2025 and 2026, team options for $20 million in 2027 and 2028, and a $25 million mutual option for 2029, but also defer $40 million of that deal over 20 years.

    Failing that, maybe look at an extension for Freddy Peralta. Make him a 5-year, $125 million offer ($50 million deferred over 25 years).

    Jake McKibbin
  • Brewer Fanatic Contributor
  • Posted

    1 hour ago, clancyphile said:

    I'm a bit of the same on this. Give Woodruff $5 million in 2024, $17.5 million a year in 2025 and 2026, team options for $20 million in 2027 and 2028, and a $25 million mutual option for 2029, but also defer $40 million of that deal over 20 years.

    Failing that, maybe look at an extension for Freddy Peralta. Make him a 5-year, $125 million offer ($50 million deferred over 25 years).

    I can't see woodruff accepting this offer in that the first two years are okay value wise, but after that the team hasn't paid enough up front or taken enough risk to justify the team friendly team options and he most certainly won't defer that amount of value, he's not got the income threads of a Shohei Ohtani

    So maybe 22.5 over first two (essentially for one season of pitching while returning from injury) but that's not going to get him long term unfortunately

    • Like 1

    I have no idea why any Brewer fan would want to ink a pitcher over 30 yrs old to any sort of longterm deal who is coming off a shoulder injury that required him to miss most of last season and undergo surgery.

    I think Woodruff is going to have a hard time finding a team to sign him to a contract before this season starts, because teams are going to want to see him pitch after rehabbing to have a better idea what he is before guaranteeing anything.  And posters want to offer him 4+ season extensions at this point?  Maybe a huge market team that misses out on all the other prominent free agent starters that will actually pitch in MLB next season will throw Woodruff a 2 year flyer with a nominal amount of $ this season and a club option for 2025 if Woodruff enters next offseason healthy and ready to pitch at the MLB level again, but it also wouldn't surprise me if we're talking about a "Woodruff throwing session showcase" sometime in July or August that attempts to draw interest from teams to sign him for the stretch run or set up his free agency headed to the 2025 season. 

    12 hours ago, clancyphile said:

    I'm a bit of the same on this. Give Woodruff $5 million in 2024, $17.5 million a year in 2025 and 2026, team options for $20 million in 2027 and 2028, and a $25 million mutual option for 2029, but also defer $40 million of that deal over 20 years.

    Failing that, maybe look at an extension for Freddy Peralta. Make him a 5-year, $125 million offer ($50 million deferred over 25 years).

    Absolutely no way am I giving Peralta a 5/125 extension 3 years out and with him throwing over 144IP once and it being last year. 

    I also really doubt Woodruff signs that deal with multiple team options and then 40M deferred over 20 years.

    You really do love the deferred money and the "Fully Bobby Bonilla," concept though. 

    10 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

    I have no idea why any Brewer fan would want to ink a pitcher over 30 yrs old to any sort of longterm deal who is coming off a shoulder injury that required him to miss most of last season and undergo surgery.

     

    An easy way to understand WHY "any Brewer fan would want to ink a pitcher over 30 yrs to any sort of longterm deal," was directly in my post. Also, not sure I consider 3 years a "long term deal," but also don't care enough to get into the weeds on that;

     

    On 1/2/2024 at 4:13 PM, BrewerFan said:

    I did as well. I'd gladly give Woody a 3-year deal in the 45M range with incentives. I'm confident enough in the teams' ability to rehab arms/shoulders and in Woody's work ethic and previous durability that I'd feel comfortable there. It'd be a big risk, but it's tough to get top of the rotation-type arms

    There's an idea. You don't have to agree...but you can't say you have no idea why. 

     

    On 1/3/2024 at 10:19 PM, BrewerFan said:

    An easy way to understand WHY "any Brewer fan would want to ink a pitcher over 30 yrs to any sort of longterm deal," was directly in my post. Also, not sure I consider 3 years a "long term deal," but also don't care enough to get into the weeds on that;

     

    There's an idea. You don't have to agree...but you can't say you have no idea why. 

     

    Yeah, now that I have an idea I still wholeheartedly disagree with it....and 3 years is longterm for a pitcher over 30 who likely won't pitch during the next MLB season because he just got done getting his shoulder sliced on.

     

    • Like 1


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