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    Can an Insanely Cutter-Heavy Start Get Corbin Burnes Untracked?


    Matthew Trueblood

    The Brewers' much-heralded ace has rarely been in top form thus far in 2023. In his most recent start, however, he might have begun to shake off the muck and get up to full speed for the first time. Was the Orioles' lineup the key to getting Milwaukee's stud going?

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    It's hard to blame Orioles manager Brandon Hyde for not wanting to send out more right-handed batters than necessary against Corbin Burnes Wednesday. Since the start of 2021, they're only hitting .195/.257/.318 against him. Lefties have actually put up almost identical numbers during that span, but the minatory bulk of him and the spin of his fastball have to make him a pitiably miserable at-bat for a righty.

    Thus, Hyde ran out a lineup in which the only right-handed hitters (at least against a righty like Burnes) were Austin Hays and Jorge Mateo. Seven of every nine of his batters would have the platoon advantage on the crossdraw California cowboy. As it happened, Burnes was so efficient against Hays and Mateo that facing lefties made up even more of his start than that breakdown would imply. 

    Brooksbaseball-Chart (51).jpeg

    As anyone who tuned into that game knows, though, it didn't matter. Burnes struck out nine batters for the first time this year. He fired eight dominant innings, allowing just two hits and no runs. The lefties were helpless against him, as were Hays and Mateo, thanks to an extraordinarily sharp day for Burnes's cutter. 

    In one sense, that was just the natural response to the circumstances he faced. Burnes has made heavy use of the cutter against lefties all season. He was fractionally more reliant on that pitch against them than is his wont, but still mixed his changeup and curveball in with the offering against them,

    Brooksbaseball-Chart (53).jpeg

    Because facing so many lefties got him so deep into his cutter, though, or because he had superb feel for the pitch, or just because he doesn't have as much faith in his other options at the moment, Burnes also leaned much more heavily on the cutter against Hays and Mateo than he usually does against right-handed batters.

    Brooksbaseball-Chart (52).jpeg

    As Brewers fans know, the cutter is the key to everything for Burnes. It's far from being his only weapon, but it's the pitch at the heart of his repertoire, and it hasn't been itself this year. Opponents seem to be getting unusually good looks at it. His command of it is much less fine than it usually is. That he went to it so relentlessly and so successfully Wednesday, then, is encouraging. 

    It's just possible that, thanks to the Orioles' ability and eagerness to play matchups against him, Burnes is now back in the saddle. He overwhelmed and overcame a good offense almost solely on the strength of his cutter, and got to throw it more often in a single start than he might have done in a couple of them under normal circumstances.

    Tuesday night's start in Minnesota will be a fascinating test. Will Burnes go back to that well as often against the Twins, or revert to trying to mix his pitches and changing speeds and eye levels on hitters who are geared up for the cutter? Was his success against Baltimore serendipity--the confluence of slightly better feel for a pitch on a given night with some friendly umpiring and accidentally accommodating matchups from the opponent--or the start of something more significant and sustainable?

    We can't answer that question. Even Burnes can only make a more educated (but, perhaps, also more biased) guess. We don't know ourselves well enough to tell luck or random variation apart from concrete, lasting change, especially when the competing possibilities are complicated by interactions with forces beyond luck or internal control, like the opposing force of an opponent and their adjustments.

    Plainly, though, Wednesday was a good development for Burnes. It represented a step on the journey back to the land of aces, and whether his next step is clearly in the same direction or not, he's closer to being the hurler the Brewers need him to be after having that outing.

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    “Journey back to the land of Aces”? This is why the articles on this site are mostly garbage. 
     

    Take a dose of perspective: Corbin Burnes is having one of the best seasons a Brewers starting pitcher ever had. Better than any that Yovanni Gallardo put up, on pace to be better than those Zack Greinke put up as a Brewer, and better than many of the seasons from Ben Sheets. Yet, people are dogging him for having a bad year. 
     

    “Journey back to the land of Aces”…. Sheesh. 

    • Like 1
    6 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

    “Journey back to the land of Aces”? This is why the articles on this site are mostly garbage. 
     

    Take a dose of perspective: Corbin Burnes is having one of the best seasons a Brewers starting pitcher ever had. Better than any that Yovanni Gallardo put up, on pace to be better than those Zack Greinke put up as a Brewer, and better than many of the seasons from Ben Sheets. Yet, people are dogging him for having a bad year. 
     

    “Journey back to the land of Aces”…. Sheesh. 

    Out of qualified pitchers, Burnes is 28th in ERA and 45th in FIP. That's not ace level pitching. Just because it is better than Gallardo and Greinke who never pitched like aces in Milwaukee doesn't mean that it's ace level pitching.

    • Like 1
    6 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

    Yet, people are dogging him for having a bad year. 

    The standard isn't past Brewers aces, who weren't really aces to begin with in the grand scheme of things. The standard is Burnes own past performance.

    From 2020 through 2022, Burnes threw 428 IP with a 63 ERA- and 58 FIP-. His 14.0 rWAR and 14.4 fWAR were both tops among all starting pitchers during that stretch.

    So far this year he has a 77 ERA- and 97 FIP- which are 14% and 39% worse than the results he turned in over the last three seasons on a rate basis. His 1.6 rWAR ranks 30th and his 1.0 fWAR ranks 45th among 68 qualified starters.

    8 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

    The standard isn't past Brewers aces, who weren't really aces to begin with in the grand scheme of things. The standard is Burnes own past performance.

    From 2020 through 2022, Burnes threw 428 IP with a 63 ERA- and 58 FIP-. His 14.0 rWAR and 14.4 fWAR were both tops among all starting pitchers during that stretch.

    So far this year he has a 77 ERA- and 97 FIP- which are 14% and 39% worse than the results he turned in over the last three seasons on a rate basis. His 1.6 rWAR ranks 30th and his 1.0 fWAR ranks 45th among 68 qualified starters.

    Ha, Greinke, a Hall of Fame pitcher, wasn’t really an Ace? Ben Sheets wasn’t really an Ace? Even spotting you Gallardo, your argument already lost all its credibility. 

    Nonetheless, it’s quite possible ‘20-‘21 were the career years for Corbin Burnes. Happens all the time a player has two incredible years and never reaches those heights again (Yelich). 
     

    Fact of the matter is there are 20+ clubs that would take Burnes right now, put him at the top of the rotation,  and be over the moon with his production so far. 

    6 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

    Ha, Greinke, a Hall of Fame pitcher, wasn’t really an Ace? Ben Sheets wasn’t really an Ace? Even spotting you Gallardo, your argument already lost all its credibility. 

    Nonetheless, it’s quite possible ‘20-‘21 were the career years for Corbin Burnes. Happens all the time a player has two incredible years and never reaches those heights again (Yelich). 
     

    Fact of the matter is there are 20+ clubs that would take Burnes right now, put him at the top of the rotation,  and be over the moon with his production so far. 

    Greinke had a 93 ERA- in Milwaukee. He didn't pitch like an ace when we had him. Sheets had a couple seasons where he pitched like an ace but 87 ERA- in his career in Milwaukee isn't exactly ace material. 

    • Like 1
    28 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

    Ha, Greinke, a Hall of Fame pitcher, wasn’t really an Ace? Ben Sheets wasn’t really an Ace? Even spotting you Gallardo, your argument already lost all its credibility.

    No Greinke wasn’t an ace with the Brewers. He ranked 71st in rWAR among 94 qualified SP in 2011.

    Sheets had one ace level season, 2004 when he ranked 4th in rWAR among 89 qualified starters.

    3 hours ago, sveumrules said:

    No Greinke wasn’t an ace with the Brewers. He ranked 71st in rWAR among 94 qualified SP in 2011.

    Sheets had one ace level season, 2004 when he ranked 4th in rWAR among 89 qualified starters.

    What’s your definition of an Ace then? If you want to dump  on a record of 25-9 with a 1.20 whip and a 4.5:1 K:BB ratio as not Ace material then I guess you live in a fantasyland and there’s no reason to talk about it further. 
     

     

    • Like 1
    11 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

    What’s your definition of an Ace then? If you want to dump  on a record of 25-9 with a 1.20 whip and a 4.5:1 K:BB ratio as not Ace material then I guess you live in a fantasyland and there’s no reason to talk about it further. 

    Greinke went 25-9 primarily because the Brewers averaged 5.3 runs scored during his starts, the best run support of any regular Brewers SP during his tenure and even a fraction better than Cy Vuke got from the 1982 Brewers.

    During Greinke’s time with the Brewers (2011 thru 7/24/2012) there were 76 qualified starting pitchers. Here are Greinke’s ranks…

    294 IP (55th) | 93 ERA- (35th) | 3.6 rWAR (46th) | 1.20 WHIP (24th) | 4.42 K/BB (4th)

    He didn’t pitch an ace’s quantity of innings, he didn’t prevent runs at the same rate that an ace does and he didn’t really even prevent base runners at an ace level. The only thing remotely ace-y about his performance was the K/BB ratio.

    My definition of an ace for that time period would be guys who pitched like Verlander (399 IP | 58 ERA- | 14.3 rWAR), Weaver (346 IP | 60 ERA- | 12.3 rWAR), Kershaw (373 IP | 70 ERA- | 10.6 rWAR), Halladay (317 IP | 74 ERA- | 9.4 rWAR), Cliff (351 IP | 75 ERA- | 10.0 rWAR) and Hamels (349 IP | 76 ERA- | 9.7 rWAR).

     

    12 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

    What’s your definition of an Ace then? If you want to dump  on a record of 25-9 with a 1.20 whip and a 4.5:1 K:BB ratio as not Ace material then I guess you live in a fantasyland and there’s no reason to talk about it further. 
     

     

    Your tone is tiresome. You can disagree without the over the top attacks like living in fantasyland.

    • Disagree 1
    2 hours ago, sveumrules said:

    Greinke went 25-9 primarily because the Brewers averaged 5.3 runs scored during his starts, the best run support of any regular Brewers SP during his tenure and even a fraction better than Cy Vuke got from the 1982 Brewers.

    During Greinke’s time with the Brewers (2011 thru 7/24/2012) there were 76 qualified starting pitchers. Here are Greinke’s ranks…

    294 IP (55th) | 93 ERA- (35th) | 3.6 rWAR (46th) | 1.20 WHIP (24th) | 4.42 K/BB (4th)

    He didn’t pitch an ace’s quantity of innings, he didn’t prevent runs at the same rate that an ace does and he didn’t really even prevent base runners at an ace level. The only thing remotely ace-y about his performance was the K/BB ratio.

    My definition of an ace for that time period would be guys who pitched like Verlander (399 IP | 58 ERA- | 14.3 rWAR), Weaver (346 IP | 60 ERA- | 12.3 rWAR), Kershaw (373 IP | 70 ERA- | 10.6 rWAR), Halladay (317 IP | 74 ERA- | 9.4 rWAR), Cliff (351 IP | 75 ERA- | 10.0 rWAR) and Hamels (349 IP | 76 ERA- | 9.7 rWAR).

     

    Got it. Ace = mostly Hall of Famers. 

     

    57 minutes ago, Baldkin said:

    Love how you use B-R WAR which uses ERA instead of FIP to make your argument look better, when those brewers teams had awful, awful defenses. 

     

    Yuni1B.gif.opt.gif

    Greinke made a conscious decision to pitch to his FIP with Milwaukee, and specifically changed his approach to be more groundball heavy in an effort to limit home runs. Batted ball profiles…

    2008-10 w/ KCR
    100 LD%+ | 99 GB%+ | 101 FB%+

    2011-12 w/ MIL
    108 LD%+ | 111 GB%+ | 81 FB%+

    2013-15 w/ LAD
    103 LD%+ | 103 GB%+ | 93 FB%+

    2016-18 w/ARI
    96 LD%+ | 103 GB%+ | 99 FB%+

    His batted ball profile was much more evenly distributed both before and after his stint with Milwaukee. When you consider Brewers IF posted -29 DRS from 2011-12 vs +32 DRS for the OF, Greinke maybe outsmarted himself somewhat.

    He definitely had ace level peripherals with the Brewers, and was successful in his goal of putting up the best FIP he could, but it didn’t translate to ace level run prevention (in part because he was intentionally trying to induce grounders to a Yuni, Rickie, Prince infield) or IP totals (because he was running up his pitch counts trying to strike everybody out).

    21 hours ago, Team Canada said:

    Your tone is tiresome. You can disagree without the over the top attacks like living in fantasyland.

    Not sure why it's considered "attacking". It was sarcasm, which is a form of humor. Imo, if people are offended by "living in a fantasy land", then they probably need to grow thicker skin. I'd be offended, if someone was offended by that. Lol

    2 hours ago, bigred said:

    Not sure why it's considered "attacking". It was sarcasm, which is a form of humor. Imo, if people are offended by "living in a fantasy land", then they probably need to grow thicker skin. I'd be offended, if someone was offended by that. Lol

    Sarcasm is by definition intended to mock the recipient, so in that respect, that's not the level of discourse we strive for. More typically sarcasm refers to saying something but implying the exact opposite, which is obviously not what's happening here, and happens all the time (we've even adopted the text in blue convention for better conveying what is typically a tone of voice).

    There is nothing gained in mocking a legitimate point of view by saying that the person is living in fantasyland. If someone posts on how we're going to trade for Shohei and win the World Series? Sure, they're probably living in fantasy land. That's not this.

    This forum has existed for decades on the premise of a different level of discussion than the typical "win the internet at all costs" type posting that ends up in a race to the bottom.

    • Like 1
    • Disagree 1
    24 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

    Sarcasm is by definition intended to mock the recipient, so in that respect, that's not the level of discourse we strive for. More typically sarcasm refers to saying something but implying the exact opposite, which is obviously not what's happening here, and happens all the time (we've even adopted the text in blue convention for better conveying what is typically a tone of voice).

    There is nothing gained in mocking a legitimate point of view by saying that the person is living in fantasyland. If someone posts on how we're going to trade for Shohei and win the World Series? Sure, they're probably living in fantasy land. That's not this.

    This forum has existed for decades on the premise of a different level of discussion than the typical "win the internet at all costs" type posting that ends up in a race to the bottom.

    I understand your point. I know I'm the only one though, who's beyond tired of some people being "offended" by basically anything. Apparently people have forgotten "stick & stones can break our bones, but words will never hurt us." Nowadays, someone could fart the wrong tone, and someone will be offended by it. Imo, the level it's at nowadays, is ridiculous. In some instances, people that are offended by the littlest things, do that sort of as a manipulation tactic, like they expect people to walk on egg shells around them. Sorry, just how I feel. 

    • Love 1


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