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    Why Tyler Black Might Solve One Problem But Raise Another for the 2024 Brewers


    Matthew Trueblood

    The big Brewers prospect news of the week is the massive contract extension to which the team and outfielder Jackson Chourio have agreed. The team also needs help from the farm on the infield, though, and another of their top prospects poses a potential solution to that problem.

    Image courtesy of © Curt Hogg / Milwauke | 2023 Mar 6

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    It's easy to get excited about Tyler Black. He's a left-handed hitter with speed, plate discipline, and a good hit tool. His on-base percentage (just under .420) and stolen-base total (55) were each gaudy last year. He feels like a dynamic addition to the lineup, just waiting a pinch more seasoning in Triple A. He feels like a potential middle-of-the-order bat, even if it be a bit non-traditional, because he cracked 25 doubles, 12 triples, and 18 home runs across the top two levels of the minors in 2023.

    Unfortunately, the real picture is probably a little bit less exciting. Black's bat-to-ball skills and his patience should translate well to the majors. He whiffed quite a bit on offspeed stuff with Nashville in September, but otherwise, he looks like a well-rounded pure hitter.

    Brooksbaseball-Chart (99).jpeg

    Still, both the strikeout and the walk rates Black ran in the high minors will move at least some amount in an unfriendly direction when he reaches MLB. That means more pressure on the actual batted balls he generates. In MLB, players without good power get the bat knocked out of their hands, at least to some extent. We saw that with Sal Frelick and Brice Turang in 2023. Both are modestly valuable, but that value had to come almost solely from their gloves and their legs, because they lacked the pop to be great hitters.

    Admittedly, our data on Black is quite limited, so far. In that sample, though, the indications are that he's not much more of a slugger than Frelick or Turang.

    Exit Velocities, Triple A, 2023

    Player

    Avg EV

    95th %ile EV

    Tyler Black

    86.3

    103

    Sal Frelick

    84.9

    102.2

    Brice Turang

    87.8

    103.3

    That directly compares Black to what those two guys did in Triple A; the numbers above don't include when Turang and Frelick faced big-league competition. If you harbor any serious hopes that Black will hit for power, these data run into them like a fist into a kidney. Worse, Black has run high ground-ball rates throughout his climb up the minor-league ladder. He made some progress on adjusting his swing plane in 2023, but it's unlikely he's going to elevate the ball enough to produce substantially more power than his raw exit speeds imply.

    Pair Black with Andruw Monasterio, and you could see a solid platoon form at the hot corner. Monasterio is a fine defender there, although Black is much less polished. Monasterio showed the same bat-to-ball ability and the same comfort hitting opposite-handed pitchers hard that Black has demonstrated in the upper minors. They could be an average-plus overall tandem.

    However, every platoon comes at a cost, and this one would pay twice the price. Two players for one spot means one fewer roster spot to use on other position players and other skill sets. In this case, it also seals off third base and eliminates that as a position at which the Brewers could shop for a difference-making power bat. If Black isn't that kind of player, the team still very much needs one--not just a good hitter, but one who can swat 30-plus home runs. Platooning Monasterio and Black at a position that traditionally does yield some power would mean narrowing the avenues to much-needed upgrades for Matt Arnold, Pat Murphy and company.

    What do you think? Will Black develop power at the highest level, despite the underlying indicators in his batted-ball data? Might he be better used as a trade chip this winter? Comment to start a conversation.

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    Brandon Sproat

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    4 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

    35.8% GB, 43.4% FB rate last year for Bellinger, 43.6% pull side.

    Black in AA last year(where he got most of his ABs);

    37.0% GB 43.2% FB with 40.8% pull side(his pull side was actually higher in AAA at 41.7%).


    Not that I think anyone's expecting him to match Bellinger's power number of hit 47 HRs in ANY year, but you're taking 142 ABs...after a late-season promotion to AAA. 
     

    So this just seems a bit silly. ANY hope for power from a guy who we don't expect a ton of power from(I think 15-20 is pretty reasonable) is pretty much gone because of a small sample size in AAA while ignoring AA? Just seems like a questionable narrative. 

    See, now we're down to a band of disagreement where I'm happy calling it even. I want to strongly caution against equating numbers--even batted-ball data, which doesn't have the same obvious downward pressure in translation--accrued in MLB with those accrued in AA. And I think Black's probably more like 10 homers a year than 15 or 20, but again: the gap now is small enough that we're just hashing out details.

    The last thing I want to note on it is that we also have the related data points of the rookies who came up last year, though. Frelick is a really comparable player, and we saw how he got eaten up by big-league pitching (not overall, but in terms of generating any real punch). Turang lost his power in translation, although (as Brenton Del Chiaro said on that great podcast he guested on last week) I think some of that was approach-based, rather than being locked in. Monasterio didn't get to any pop. Right now, I think the org might need to consider that they're doing well at coaching swing decisions and "elite problem solvers," to quote Del Chiaro again, but not as well as they need to at helping them unlock power. The counterexamples--guys like Rowdy, in recent years--are those who brought their own big raw to the table. How do you help players like Black, whose raw is clearly pretty limited, get to enough to maximize his utility?

    53 minutes ago, Matthew Trueblood said:

    In 2022, Esteury Ruiz had a .447 OBP in the upper minors. Miguel Vargas had a .411. That's two examples plucked from one very recent season off the top of my head.

    You guys can keep thinking I'm secretly here just to talk down all things Brewers, but we're at almost a year together and I would think you'd have seen enough to start letting that paranoia go. Again: Black might be good! I'm just trying to have what I think is an awfully relevant conversation about the sources of risk and uncertainty around him. I have a piece about Ben Brown's fastball problem going live at NSBB tomorrow, in case you're worried that I never do the same with Cubs prospects. This is ball talk, man. It shouldn't be pollyanna all the time. That's boring.

    No, but Esteury Ruiz just had one dominant year at 23 in the upper minors and had atrocious batted ball data, culminating in him having by far the lowest average EV in the majors this year. Black's is nowhere near that low. Vargas, interestingly, put the ball in the air a ton with a 47%. FB rate (which you want Black to do), yet had his worst season of his career including the minors. Black has plus speed so I don't think you don't want all of his contact going in the air. Fact of the matter is, unlike Ruiz and Vargas, Black has put up a +.400 OBP everywhere he's been. He may not reach quite that level in the majors, but there's very little reason to think he won't get on base at a well above average rate, which is precisely what you want from your #2 hitter. 

    As Wiguy points out, you're completely ignoring his AA data where he spent the vast majority of the season and then decide to extrapolate out a much smaller sample size from AAA....

    If this were a one-off, I wouldn't think much of it other than I simply disagree, but with some of the other articles you've been pumping out lately and with seemingly increasing frequency, it sure as heck is going to raise eyebrows on a Brewers fan site. 

    • Like 1
    Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

    No, but Esteury Ruiz just had one dominant year at 23 in the upper minors and had atrocious batted ball data, culminating in him having by far the lowest average EV in the majors this year. Black's is nowhere near that low. Vargas, interestingly, put the ball in the air a ton with a 47%. FB rate (which you want Black to do), yet had his worst season of his career including the minors. Black has plus speed so I don't think you don't want all of his contact going in the air. Fact of the matter is, unlike Ruiz and Vargas, Black has put up a +.400 OBP everywhere he's been. He may not reach quite that level in the majors, but there's very little reason to think he won't get on base at a well above average rate, which is precisely what you want from your #2 hitter. 

    As Wiguy points out, you're completely ignoring his AA data where he spent the vast majority of the season and then decide to extrapolate out a much smaller sample size from AAA. 

    If this were a one-off, I wouldn't think much of it other than I simply disagree, but with some of the other articles you've been pumping out lately and with seemingly increasing frequency, it sure as heck is going to raise eyebrows on a Brewers fan site. 

    I have to imagine you’re extremely low on PCA’s bat as well 

    • Like 3
    6 minutes ago, Matthew Trueblood said:

    See, now we're down to a band of disagreement where I'm happy calling it even. I want to strongly caution against equating numbers--even batted-ball data, which doesn't have the same obvious downward pressure in translation--accrued in MLB with those accrued in AA. And I think Black's probably more like 10 homers a year than 15 or 20, but again: the gap now is small enough that we're just hashing out details.

    Ok....I'm not arguing if his upside is 20 HRs or 10. I think the 18 HRs last year, his first full healthy year in the minors would suggest it's more than 10, but regardless...so what? You're presenting this argument as though his strongest tool was his power and now that's all thrown into question.

    That was NEVER his calling card, nor the reason he was a top 50 prospect. It was his bat-to-ball skills, his ~16% BB rate, his lower K rate, and his speed. He's not a Wilken-type prospect. Never was.

    And I find the Ruiz comparison absurdly disingenuous. That you're comparing his ability to get on base with that of Black shows a narrative you're trying to present rather than a subjective analysis. 

     

     

    3 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

    IIRC, it has been suggested this number could be off by as many as 4 inches.

    I chuckle every time questions about his height come up here. I have been in close proximity to him several times in Biloxi. I’m 5’ 11”, I didn’t measure him but he is a little taller than me. I took this pic of him just a few feet away from me last season

    image.jpeg.128493dd2fc1bf88eeff616752afe79c.jpeg

    Del Chiaro also mentioned how much stronger Black has gotten coming into this past season, working-out during his injury absence’s. 

    A 4 mph increase in exit velo in ‘23 over ‘22 is impressive. So is his FB rate vs GB rate., ISO improvement, and more than quadrupling his HR output. 

    Nice progress I’d say from Mr Black.

    You guys can keep thinking I'm secretly here just to talk down all things Brewers, but we're at almost a year together and I would think you'd have seen enough to start letting that paranoia go.

    Honestly, I think time and the growing amount of content being churned out is having the exact opposite effect on many regulars to this message board.  

    There is nothing about Black's 2023 minor league season offensively that should be cause for a potential Brewers' problem moving forward.

     

    34 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

    You guys can keep thinking I'm secretly here just to talk down all things Brewers, but we're at almost a year together and I would think you'd have seen enough to start letting that paranoia go.

    Honestly, I think time and the growing amount of content being churned out is having the exact opposite effect on many regulars to this message board.  

    There is nothing about Black's 2023 minor league season offensively that should be cause for a potential Brewers' problem moving forward.

     

    I don't think he's here trolling, I just don't think it's as balanced as he thinks it is.

    The PCA question is a very good one. How concerned are we about him? I think the kid looks like a stud, but you can certainly pick apart the same issues.

    But for me, the big thing is, Black was NEVER supposed to be a #4-5 type hitter. Maybe top end #3, more likely a #2 if he develops as expected. And there's really no reason he shouldn't hit 15-20. Especially playing half his games at Miller Park.

    Let's say though, for the sake of argument, he does "only" hit 10. If he's got a 65 bat, and he walks like he has, that's almost ideal for a #2 hitter. 

    I don't think using Frelick or Turang helps his argument about Black or with regard to his bias or lack thereof. They were both rookies and we all compared Frelick to Kwann. Not a power threat. 

    I've been concerned about the long-term value of all of Turang, Frelick, Mitchell and Wiemer, for many of the things MT stated in his article about Black. Each of them have some glaring concerns, IMO. I've been excited about all of them because I think the hardest "jump" prospects can make is to go from good prospect to every day MLB starter. I think most of them showed enough last year that I'm feeling they all can be serviceable starters. This makes me really happy!

    But the concern is that we have a whole team of merely serviceable players without any that are good starters for a playoff team. I don't see anything in the article that is saying anything different.

    With this said, I'm quite hopeful that at least one or two of these guys can make another jump in year 2. If Frelick turns himself into a .300 hitter? if Mitchell's power remains and SO% becomes reasonable? If Wiemer makes enough contact to blossom? If Turang can OPS .700?

    It would be great if Black can assuage those concerns and turn in a promising MLB debut season in '24.

    • Like 1
    17 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

    I have to imagine you’re extremely low on PCA’s bat as well 

    Was checking NSBB for a similar article discussing PCA's MLB ceiling as a late-inning defensive replacement/pinch runner since his bat resembles several soggy rolls of tp strung onto a wet noodle, but strangely enough there wasn't one.

    • Like 1



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