TooLiveBrew

ESPN > The Force Chris Berman > Han Solo Public Transportation > Millennium Falcon Bill Schroeder > Yoda Reagan Star Wars > Lucas Star Wars. Did I forget any? Just one... Ned Yost > Fatter than Joey

Man! You're stupid Buc. Everyone knows how to do blue font! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Much of credit has to go to Bill Hall, whom I am gaining more respect for by the day, but some of it goes to Ned as well. If Bill had lost respect for Ned that type of situation turns into a real problem like the Mets situation did when they lost respect for Randolph. That's a great point. And I'd like to sort of merge my thoughts on this with... Yost and Melvin make a pretty good management team. I agree completely. When you look around MLB, you start to notice that the Brewers and their fans are pretty lucky. As moronic as Yost can be or seem at times, he's nothing compared to some of the hacks out there skipper-ing big-league teams. Add in that Melvin is, at worst, a more than competent GM, and that's quite a pairing. However, I want to address something I've noticed popping up more & more lately: the notion that the players are being 'led' by Yost to whatever W-L record they have / 'the players are winning for Yost' / 'Yost creates a good atmosphere in the clubhouse' / 'The players like each other, largely due to Yost' Now, not all of those are direct quotes, nor am I singling any one single poster out. I want to address the general sentiment that's there for those points. These ballplayers are (mostly) fully-matured, grown men. And as Buc points out, it takes a team to win. Ned Yost should not get all the credit (or even much at all imo) that grown men can get along, especially when they've been winning as much as they have lately. The players deserve, individually & collectively, every bit as much -- if not more -- credit for the great team chemistry. Ned Yost does not do a whole lot there. Sure, he does some good, positive things in backing up his players. However, the bulk of the players getting along is that the players themselves seem to genuinely like one another. That is mostly to their credit, not Ned's. **Another aspect I think is getting lost in this is that Melvin (& Attanasio) makes the character of any prospective Brewer a priority. While I agree that skill should not be sacrificed for 'niceness', there are many cases where it doesn't have to be. Melvin (& Jack Z) has done a wonderful job bringing in players that are every bit as good of people as they are ballplayers. Doug, in all likelihood, deserves more credit for the 'mood/rapport in the clubhouse' than Yost, since Melvin is the one actually targeting potential Brewers (Yost may have moderate input there). Ben Sheets is my shining example of this type of player (Sabathia fits this mold too), and I'm aware that Melvin/Z/Attanasio had nothing to do with his presence here. However, if Ben does indeed move on to another team after this season, I'll miss his goofy, sarcastic, wonderful personality just about as much as I'll miss his prowess on the mound. Imho, it makes being a fan *that* much more rewarding and gratifying. ------------------------- Just like inaccurately stating, 'Player X is a .287 hitter' (as opposed to, 'Player X has batted .287 to this point in the season'), I feel people also make inaccurate judgments of a manager -- saying things like, 'Look, Yost has got this team leading the WC race, and 1 GB from the Cubs. He's doing a great job!' Yost plays a part in the team's success, but imho a baseball manager in general is much more accurately viewed as a cog in the machine, as opposed to the machinist skillfully manipulating the gears & whoozits & whatzits to result in a finely crafted result. Yes, the manager does manipulate his 'machine', but the parts of said machine execute results largely/almost completely independent of him. I think we should be discussing Ned as a part of a group of roughly 30-40 men whose job it is to pile up the W's for the Milwaukee Brewers. In this manner, both critics & supporters (& everyone in between -- most of us) can take a much more realistic approach to Ned's actual impact. Is it greater than Sheets? Fielder? It might be roughly the same, but it's probably a bit less impactful. That's not a knock on Yost, just what I feel to be reality. My apologies for the mega-post, but thanks to anyone that actually read the whole dang thing.

ROOGY -- Righty-One-Out-GuY http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif And yes, Mota's career numbers appear to indicate that he fares better against RHB. Being that he's a RHP, that shouldn't be too surprising... now if we can just get Ned to notice this... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Of course Mota dominated LHers last year while RHers killed him..... His career splits strongly indicate he's best used as a ROOGY. I don't think that's any stretch.

I'd hope it doesn't take Ned digging through stats to determine the relative talent levels of his pitching staff. If that's the case (I don't believe it is), we're in serious trouble. Torres has done a better job at not allowing runs to score. But there's so much out of his hands that goes into this. Torres has actually had several outings this season in which good luck either bailed him out or helped him tremendously. For a recent example -- last night, Molina missing a HR by a matter of feet. Did Torres secretly throw the 'warning track meatball'? Of course not, and I'm only overstating to make the point that Torres, while he has been good, is not infallible, nor does he possess greater skill or value than Villy to the point where a chance to add one run to a 1-run lead in the top of the 10th inning should be eschewed in favor of 'Torres over Villy'. I'm no rluz, but adding that one run is going to increase your odds of winning drastically. Of course there are no guarantees that a PH would plate the run, but there are no guarantees that Torres wouldn't make an out, and then blow the game in the bottom half. I respect that you're searching for the greatest chance(s) at victory, Buc, and in that sense everyone disucssing here is on the same page. I just believe that extending a 1-run lead to a 2-run lead in that situation increases the team's odds of winning far more than using Villy decreases our chances at winning compared to using Torres. I also recognize that a PH is actually likely to not get the run in -- but the reward relative to the risk involved (not having Torres for the 10th) screams 'go for it!' to me. Imho Yost should have gone to a batter for that gigantic-leverage PA, but he instead chose to take less than the best available choice (a curse that plagues & defines his tenure here in my eyes), and hope that things worked out how he hoped. Luckily for everyone, things did indeed work out the way Ned hoped. But as has been said before & will be said again, Yost should not be praised for playing the smaller odds just because the team picked him up.

I'm also really enjoying the 'working title' for this thread

I think Al was just saying that Mota's not as god-awful as he's being made out to be. Mota, as it turns out, is a ROOGY. Now if we could just get a manager that knew how to use him... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

The Cubs 'have had' a hard time winning on the road -- sorry, this is a particular quirk I have when it comes to baseball, like an announcer declaring, 'Player X coming up; he's a .294 hitter'. It's not a skill or anti-skill they possess that should be expected to continue. If anything, their home/road split should be expected to even out a bit. I don't think we should expect them to win 76% of all home games this season & only 42% of all road games.

But that's just another example of seeking out venom where none exists. It'd be nice if you would either show where someone explicitly said "Because it's not what Yost did", or admit you're way off base there. Torres batting, man in scoring position, with only a 1-run lead >>>> Torres/Villy. That extra run -- or shot at adding on an extra run -- is far more valuable than the difference between Torres & Villy.

Nice catch -- thanks for sharing that, brett. So basically, they're: - Paying extra money - Getting a bad pitcher - Losing a marginal pitching prospect from an already decimated system ...for no draft compensation. Yeah... and? http://gritsngrace.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/alfred.jpg

Overall (261 PA): .238/.297/.389/.680 240 PA v. RHP: .250/.304/.414/.718 I'm thinking the Phils were hoping for a bit better production than that. Sad to see it, Jenks -- still love ya man... and I agree. Weird to see #5 on anyone else.

Torres has a 2.73 ERA Villy a 4.87. ... going with a pitcher more than twice as likely to give up a run that inning. With all due respect, this is where your problem begins -- using half a season's ERA to determine talent. ERA is not = 'odds' Especially considering Torres in now hitting .500 for the season. You cannot be serious.

I dunno... sub-.400 SLG at age 23 in Triple-A, and sub-.400 SLG at age 22 in Double-A... doesn't look all that good, but that's just me. Low BB totals along with a lack of power don't tend to project well to MLB. Listed at 5'11" & 180 lbs., it appears that the Nats just got themselves a speedy slap hitter. He does appear to be a good base-stealer, so maybe Bowden is just another GM that overvalues speed. Gotta imagine the return for a RP as effective as Rauch could have/should have been better, especially since he's under salary control for another season. Also, for those wanting to search on the youngster, his name is spelled Emilio Bonifacio

But reasons like it would screw up the routine or put pressure on them or that it will adversely effect the bullpen all seem to be things that everyone brings up anytime anything new is tried. P, especially SP, function on a relatively strict schedule of work & recuperation. I think one reason the 'regular rest' gets brought up often is that it's pretty relevant. Getting out of that schedule means either throwing more frequently than one is used to, or throwing less frequently. Managers & pitching coaches routinely reference that pitchers need to 'stay sharp', as in not go for too long without pitching... otherwise risking efficiency/command when they go next time. I'm not saying you don't know this, Buc... just that there's a seemingly decent reason the point gets repeated. Not saying your doubts are that type of extreme scenario TLB your fears might be warranted. None of my fears ever seem to be warranted. I fear Guillermo Mota from afar, yet those closest to him continue to let him pitch! This is one of those times where the risk reward factor is in favor of trying it. This idea may very well may turn out to be a poor one. If it is the risk isn't all that high I agree on this part... but just don't think the idea's good. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I think Guillermo Mota is an alien like the 'Bugs' from Men in Black -- inhabiting a human shell. The guy could survive an atomic blast, it seems.

Look at how late Brandon Phillips and to a lesser extent Ryan Howard developed. Agreed on Phillips, but Howard was held down in the minors by Philly to keep him cheaper in his prime years. Hence why Howard was pissed at them. I'm not saying he's that kind of player, but he's still got a good chance to be a darn good one. I don't think benching him for a 36 year old will help him develop or even make us a better team for the last 60 games of this year. I certainly share these sentiments.

Now that's adding an impact arm. The race for the bullpen arms is now well underway. I'd guess we'll be hearing about another Brewers acquisition relatively soon.

At best it will allow them to finish 6 or 7 games out of the wild card instead of 10. Don't forget that they'll be able to draft from a poorer position, too! Instead of trading for players they should instead shop Tejada and Lee. My thoughts exactly. They could get premium returns for those two right now. I genuinely think that McLane is devoted to grabbing what he thinks of as superstar players & then cobbling together a roster around them. It's like a 'Pre-2008-NY Yankees Light' approach to organizational building/rebuilding. I'm exceedingly happy that I'm not an Astros fan. EDIT: Thanks to AndThat, for the much more descriptive thread title. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Don't they need more pitching for the future? Oswalt is enough, apparently.

Give Rickie another shot (he impressed last night) at picking up his production. He's been playing extremely well for 2 weeks or so now, though. Theres no reason we need to decide Durham's playing time right now... If he starts to slip I'm sure Durham will see more playing time. Yes, this is what I think of Durham -- and, as you point out, he strengthens an already strong bench.

I think 112 pitches is pretty much 112 pitches, unless you're of the belief that Harden intentionally throws less effective/stressful pitches when he's not 'in jams'. I think it's more mentally stressful to have to pitch around runners on base, but not physically moreso. It's probably also a heckuva lot more stressful to fans than it is to professional pitchers.

The Juicebox -- I love that! Am I the only one that hadn't heard that nickname? That's making me chuckle.

I can't hang this on Wade -- iirc the owner (McLane) is the one that's been pushing for things like signing Lee, getting Tejada. I'd have to imagine he's throwing his weight around on this one, too. Why you would give away a decent young P for Randy Wolf... man. That'd be like dealing away three young arms for Scott Linebrink or something! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

It was 3-3 in the bottom of the 9th -- the winning run was already on 2nd. -- Unless we are talking about a different time Well I had it in my head that the score was 3-2, so... I 'get' you. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

But in this case it meant putting the potential winning run on base, as opposed to having him have to earn his way aboard. I hear you on the force out, but I'm not sure which the proper move is/was.