MJLiverock

Singles count toward slugging percentages so Morgan's more hits vs. Camerons' more walks are already included in the OPS stat. They are a wash in OBP but the Cameron still slugs so much better than Morgan that he overcomes the fewer relative hits. So you're right the difference in OPS is almost entirely due to SLG but not because they are weighted differently but because Cameron just flat out slugs a whole lot better even with fewer total hits to add to his slugging. The salary argument just isn't relative since it isn't just a matter of signing Morgan to a $500,000 deal in the offseason as has been shown.

We all could round and round on this but it has been shown Cameron is a supperior ball player, he gets on base at the same rate while hitting for more extra base hits. Now Morgan is ok and sure it would be great to just slide the savings over to pitching but it doesn't work that way. The 20x argument while factually correct, isn't comparably correct. That's like the Cubs questioning paying Lilly $12MM and saying they could have Gallardo instead for $500,000. Morgan isn't available for next year at $500,000. He is under another team's control so a player has to be traded to obtain him. A player that could be used to try an obtain pitching so it isn't just a simple swap of Morgan over Cameron and poof our pitching gets better at the expense of some offense with the savinigs. He will become arby eligible in 2011 so that salary will go up. The Nationals would probably ask for Lorenzo Cain plus another prospect for him (most likely an A ball pitcher if I were them), assuming Cain projects to be Morgan in the majors and they have to be compensated for the risk he doesn't make it and for giving up a player they control for 4 more years in CF. Morgan is also only 69% successfull in steals in his career 56/81, this year about the same 40/57 for 70% so he is borderline adding value with his running if you use the 70% break even rate.

There are 6 guys who play CF who have a better OBP than Cameron - - Span, Fukudome, Victorino, Fowler, Kemp, and Bourn. Cameon has struk out 24.3% with xbh 8.9% - Span 13.7%, xbh 4.3% - Fukudome 17.7%, xbh 9.9% - Victorino 10.2%, xbh 9.3%- Fowler 23.1% xbh 8.8%, Kemp 21.8% xbh 8.8%, and Bourn 19.0% xbh 7.1%. Cam has struck out a little more and has a bit more power than the guys who are drastically lower on the K rate. Kemp, Bourn, and Fowler have all K'd at least 100x like Cameron. (I didn't include Werth as a CF since he plays right most of the time and Victorino is in CF, but Werth has K'd only 4 less times than Cameron) With runners on base Cameron has a .393 OBP/.425 slg/ .818 OPS The guy is one of the top 6 or 7 guys in the game at CF, he puts up those numbers year after year while playing good D.

I'll never understand the hate for Cameron. The guy is a great defensive CFer and has the 7th highest OBP and 4th highest OPS for all Centerfielders in baseball this year. What more do you want from the guy? Yet defensive hacks like Brady Clark are remembered fondly even though in his two "career years" he couldn't match Cameron's offense.

Just remember the number one fast food chain in China is KFC.

I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread on the milk thing but anyway, I understand milk from an individual cow or milk from one specific farm may taste difference but by the time it all gets mixed together it should be pretty similar tasting, assuming both cartons are from the same region of the country. I was just amazed my wife could tell the difference between Dean and any store brand like Piggly Wiggly or Roundy's or whatever. I know when we were in Hawaii last year the milk we bought was very sweet and had an almost floral taste, probably due to the cow's diet there. My friends from CA that visit always comment on the milk here tasting different.

3rd Q is expected to be the first positive quarter in some time, mainly on the backs of cost cutting and easy comparison to last year. People probably won't start feeling a little better under 4th quarter but it depends on if companies can get some top line growth, you can't cost cut your way out of a recession. Of course that top line is dependent on people spending money which is hard if they are jobless so we all have to hope this government stimulus found its way to some of the right places and gave people confidence to spend money on something/anything or start a business or buy some equipment. If companies start rebuilding a little inventory this fall there could actually be some hiring, at least the layoffs should slow now.

The only thing I can think of with the milk tast is the packaging. Maybe they use some different cleaner for the packaging or something because you would think that milk is milk, but she picks it out everytime. Side by side I can taste a difference but I wouldn't be able to taste one over the other without the side by side comparison and I don't think one is bad, just different tasting. Thanks for the comment Burnie, at least Phil knows about the produce if the comments have been around. I always guessed they bought in such bulk that unless I got there on truck day it would be picked over. Cub used to have good produce for a warehouse mart and Pick N Save as well until Roundy's took over. I noticed the produce quality dropped immediately when Roundy's took over, the produce manager said he was well aware of the drop off.

Just be careful at Aldi with the expiration dates. I know of a few people who have noticed a lot of goods sold there are very near the expiration date which is why they are cheap. Now this probably isn't true of thier brands but of the others. They own Trader Joes and I haven't noticed this phenomenom there but have heard it about Aldi's many times. I will admit to being a bit of a food snob. I like cooking and can make gourmet/restaurant quality foods so we eat pretty well but I probably haven't seen the inside of a Wal-Mart in 15 years other than the buying a gift card for my Grandma who loves the small town one she lives by but man that Wal-Mart on the west side of Madison is about as terrible of a store as I have ever been in. I also hate Woodman's as well, their produce was so bad the last time I was there I just walked out and have never returned. I think I have been in the store 2x total and hated it both times. I'll eat some store brand canned, boxed goods but never Mac N'Cheese, tried the off brands in college and they just can' t get it right for some reason. Canned fruit is another one, I have had too many nasty store brand Mandarin Oranges or pears with the pits still in them. For some reason my wife hates store brand milk, she knows everytime if I buy the Pig brand or anything other than Dean. She takes one sip and yells out, "you bought the store brand" she catches it everytime.

He's an absolutely terrible outfielder and can't hit LH pitching whatssoever. His only role should be as LH PH, basically Kevin Mench 2.0 but worse vs. non platoon strength.

Yes as mentioned, unemployment is a lagging indicator. It doesn't rise until the economy is already heading down and it doesn't fall until the economy is getting better. Why? Because companies don't want to get head faked either. They don't start hiring workers again until they absolutley have to, they wring all the productivity gains they can out of the existing workers then start hiring. It just makes econonomic sense since there are cost associated with hiring, laying off, etc. they don't want to jump the gun and be early. Unemploymet won't start dropping until the recovery is well on its way, we are probably still in the very early stages, interest rates haven't even been raised off the bottom yet which will be a sign the Fed is confident they won't crater the economy with higher rates. Remember, much of the panic selling that lead to the March 9th lows was fear that everything was going to collapse, once the financial system stabilized that armegeddon fear was removed and a more normal recessionary type environment set in. The average recession last about 18 months, our past couple ones were short, about 6 months so it makes sense that this one would be worse than average. In December we will hit the 2 year mark which is also right about the time GDP should start showing positive numbers. Investing in gold is really more of a hedge and even then losses can occur. Anyone that thinks gold is some sort of guranteed returne should ask people who bought Gold at $1000/oz. last year and watched fall to $750/oz. in a short period of time. It moves with inflation fears, currency fears, speculations, industrial demands, and stock market fears. A lot of variables that tend to trap people into buying it at the top and thinking they can't lose money but never realizing Gold can lose value. Investing in foreign markets can be risky as well. Regulations are different, valuations may be hard to trust, and frankly it is hard to know a lot about some foreign companies. Europe tends to move pretty close to the U.S. and the emerging markets tend to be closely tied to the U.S. economy, just shifted a few quarters ahead. i.e. China, and SE Asia fell first last year and fell even harder and also recovered first this year. China has a huge government stimulus package helping to keep their economy going as orders from the U.S. fell off a cliff. I think international diversification is good but it isn't a panacea of uncorrelated returns with the U.S. markets.

Well we all know guys like Joe Torre are geniuses. I mean look at what he did with the Yankees and now the Dodgers, its not like the Yankees could win games with some guy like Joe Girardi at the helm....

It is replayed on the NFL network at 10PM, that is probably where the DirecTV reference came from. NFL network shows replays of preseason games constantly so nothing unusual there.

I'm not so sure I want to see Hart in CF, he hasn't been all that great in RF. He just doesn't seem to get a very good jump on the ball or read it off the bat. Sure Cameron has spoiled us to some degree with his amazing jumps but Hart would be bringing back the old days of Clark and Pods in CF, probably more like Pods, speed with no ability to read the ball. Clark was more of a no speed, play on the warning track guy.

Unfortunately I still have tickets for 4 or 5 games, fortunately they seem to win when I go so I alway hold out hope on those nights. In general it is painful to watch, even moresoe than the awful teams of the past in some ways. Back then the expectations weren't there and it was just fun watching baseball, even if it was to see the other team or a young Ben Sheets pitch. Now after some success it is hard to watch the just plain awful pitching and the players even look furstrated and sort of like they just don't care anymore. Sure a guy like Prince gets excited with a HR that pulls them close but you just know the pitching is just going to give the runs right back. I usuallly have the games going on my second tuner on the DVR and will flip over and check the score, maybe rewind a little to watch some plays but I can't watch a whole game anymore and too many times when I check the score the bases are juiced for the opponents and the bullpen carosel is going round and round and no one is throwing strikes. I have zero confidence in any pitcher, even Gallardo, at this point. He is talented but probably hitting the wall this year and watching him throw 100+ pitches to labor through 5 or 6 innings isn't exciting and he is the best we got. I'll watch Braun, Fielder, and Escobar hit but other than them I just can't muster the interest anymore. Maybe in September when they call up some guys I'll gains some interest just to see some of the young guys play if Macha actually puts them in the game. When the Brewers used to be out of the race, I didn't care, I usually just got interested in some other team and rooted for them and watched the playoffs and WS. Now, I can't bring myself to care a bit about any other team and probably won't watch much of the playoffs, maybe the Dodgers games since I like a number of their players but I probably won't watch the WS at all, guaranteed not at all if the Yankees are in it. I'll get sick listening to the Jeter, Rivera, Posoda, love fest from McCarver and everyone else.

No kidding how is that rotation/bullpen much better than this year's atrocious results. Hoping mediocre players suddenly simulaneously improve to career years is just overly optimistic and not a way to build a team. I wouldn't expect that roster to be any better than a .500 team at best.

Arguing that the Patriots get free agents over the Lions is true but it isn't because Boston is some mecca for football players it is because they are good right now. It wasn't all that long ago that the Patriots were terrible and I would lay money they weren't attracting free agents then. Players at the end of their career in football often choose winners to try and get the ring as well as prolong their career by not having to be "the guy" on already good teams. Sort of like Smoltz signing with the Cardinals. Why didn't he sign with the Nationals? They are desperate for pitching and would probably let him struggle for longer. Instead he picks the Cards where he will be 5th starter or bullpen on a team headed for the playoffs but may not even make the playoff roster unless it is as a reliever. Not saying he is a great player but it happens in baseball too. Back to football, the Lions aren't bad because of poor competitive balance it is because Millen was terrible. The Lions at least have a chance to turn it around. Detroit isn't a great city but I doubt it really has much impact on getting free agents. Green Bay is not a very impressive NFL city, in fact it may well be the worst city in the league for a player who wants bright light big city clubs, restaurants, houses, and frankly, other black people around but Green Bay still manages to put a competitive team on the field because it's all about the money and everyone has basically the same amount to spend. I hear arguement about how the Yankees haven't won the World Series in X years but have spent all that money. At the same time people say all you have to do is make the playoffs and anything can happen, its a crap shoot. Well during all these years the Yankees missed the playoffs once and it is a huge deal to the media, fans, and the team. So which is it? Making the playoffs and having a shot or only winning the World Series? The Yankees themselves seem to believe it is about WS titles and just let everyone else worry about just making the playoffs. Brewers fans were exstatic making the playoffs and exiting in the first round. We may not see another playoff game for years now. Meanwhile the Yankees freaked out and spent a quarter billion dollars when they missed the playoffs. They may not win the WS but they came as close to guaranteeing they would get a shot as you can. The critics who say they paid too much will be proven wrong again just like when they overpaid for Giambi, or ARod, or Clemens, or Pavano, or all the other contracts that were going to cripple them in the future. It isn't paying too much when you have so much money it doesn't matter. The money doesn't do them any good sitting in the bank and there is no trophy for fewest dollars spent per win.

I didn't want to be so blunt since I don't know everyone's preference but yeah, Wheel of Time grinds to a halt somewhere in that range. If you are just getting into Fantasy/Sci Fi I would stop and pick up any other book mentioned thus far so as not to make you hate the genre. The series started out so promising and really had me hooked but begins to drag on and on with seemingly pointless pages and storylines. Check out the reviews of later books on Amazon and you will see the venom people feel about where this series went. Don't worry about spoilers in the reviews, there really isn't any plot advancement to spoil. I gave up after book 9, but I just looked at book 10 to try and remember where I gave up and saw it had 1 1/2 stars on Amazon and some pretty funny reviews.

I have read many of the books previously mentioned and agree there a lot of good ones there. Tolkien was my first experience in fantasy as a kid so he sort of spoiled me by setting the bar so high. I would recommend George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. Four books are done a fifth is supposedly nearly done. The first book is A Game of Thrones. I can't recommend this series enough, my second favorite after the Tolkien works. HBO is working on a show based on the books sort of a Sopranos meets the the Tudors. I don't want to ruin the Wheel of Time Series but the author, Robert Jordan, died a year or so ago so I don't know if the series will ever be finished. I read all the books up until the last one but started losing interest as the story dragged on as Logan mentioned. If you liked the Harry Potter books, I think you will like the David Eddings Belgariad and Mallorean series. These are among my favorite books from years ago. The story, characters, etc. aren't as deep or convoluted as some high fantasy stuff but the overall pace and characters are excellent, certainly not as detailed as the Wheel of Time, but I think a much better read. I've read the Robin Hobb, Raymond Feist , Terry Brooks, and would seriously put the Song of Ice and Fire above them all. Another good series I just started this year that falls into the sort of Robert Jordan level of detail is Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series. Gardens of the Moon is the first book. It is hard to get into but once you figure out the geography, alliances, and a little of the history it gets pretty good. I actually read the book twice to understand it better. I just finished the second book which was much easier to follow now that I understand the world a little more. The story is very deep with a huge geography and long long history behind the story. There are supposed to be 10 volumes and I think number 9 is coming out soon. The author has done a good job of sending out a book every year or so unlike GRRM who has been slow to get out the Song of Ice and Fire books. I've never read the Dune story but have always meant to pick it up. I saw the movie with Sting in it when I was a kid and remembered being disappointed but from what others have said it wasn't a very good representation of the books. I've had the books recommended to me many times over the years.

Pudge actually gets on base less than Kendall at this point in his career although he can at least hit it out of the infield so he slugs a little better than Kendall. I don't know if Pudge still has the arm he once did but he can't be any worse than Kendall. I was just commenting at the game on Saturday night when Pudge's stats were up on the board that he is barely above Kendall anymore the fact that Houston got someone to give up a couple players for him has to be a steal for the Astros.

I laughed when I read the comments from him stating calling Childress on July 29th to say he was remaining retired was the hardest decision he has had to make. Really Bret? I thought when you cried during your first Packer retirement it was the hardest decison you had to make, then when you came back it was the hardest decision, then when you retired after the Jets cut you it was the hardest, let me guess if you sign the papers today it will be the hardest decision you have ever made. Talk about drama queens. I can't imagine waiting on him in a restaurant or selling him a car, think of the choices and options he has to weigh. I know it is tought to walk away from the game but this has gotten completely ridiculous.

If Macha turns in that lineup card he should be fired before he can return to the dugout but I could see him doing it. Finding a way to get Kendall into the game anyway possible even over Fielder. Just one of those moves that makes Attanasio step in like Yost having Shouse IBB Howard to face Burrell.

Gotta agree with Ender's analysis. A lot of the guys the Brewers traded were mediocre players who brought back mediocre players. I think it is a little revisionist or wishful thinking to think some of these guys were difference makers or even good players when they were traded away. The Clark for Dessens was basically garbage for garbage, Clark was out fo the league shortly after that trade and never produced anything meaningful with Dodgers. Davis was going to be a free agent and t the time it seemed the Brewers weren't going to sign him for what he wanted or was going to get and frankly isn't that great of pitcher. The Brewers had no catching and they got a pitcher in Vargas who was nearly the same as Davis. Eveland has never turned into anything other than a fringe major leaguer. I like Gross for Butler. Gross was never going to be anything but a 4th outfielder and as we see the Brewers are desperate for pitching in the upper levels of the minors. Sure Butler is a risk(with upside at least for once) but you don't get sure thing prospects for 4th outfielders. No matter how many times people wish it to be true, Gross was never going to be a starting CFer because he just isn't that good defensively other than his arm. I will always rail against the Kevin Mench treatement. Mench was basically a RH version of Jenkins and Gross who got unseemly love compared to Mench. Yost was the one who insisted on using Mench vs. RH pitching but over his career Mench hit LH better than Gross did vs. RH. He was platoon guy who for some reason Yost loved to play vs. RHers when he probably should have been working Hart into the lineup or playing Gross. I believe Mike Adams had Tommy John surgery after pitching just 13 innings in 05 and 2 innings in 06. He missed the entire 2007 season. I just don't see how Adams is even a viable complaint. A GM isn't going to keep injury riddled middle relievers around forever hoping he can turn it around unless the guy is under a contract. Koksie was a very good defensive 3B and a decent hitter until he had a freak injury. Branyan at the time had posted an OBP less than .330 in 2 out of the previous 3 years, was cut by 2 teams in 06, then 3 teams in 07 after putting up BA's below 200 and OBP's less than 300. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire.

I don't like U2, Field or Dreams or Hoosiers so how about that trifecta? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Sugar sounds interesting, now I have to run off and check out Half Nelson's summary. The mention of it triggered a memory that it was a movie I wanted to see after seeing a trailer somewhere.

I was thinking the same thing, Machas mind must be racing...more tatoos, meaner stares, and an uncanny ability to make outs so you can run back to the dugout and get the equipment on quickly before the pitcher needs to begin warm up tosses, and if possible, have your weak ground balls get other team mates out at 2nd so they can rest in the dugout as well. Because that's what big league catchers do, they make others around them better. Not being terrible at offense is overrated.