JohnBriggs12

Get Brinson up here if you're not going to trade him. Broxton's had his shot and he can't avoid these monster slumps. This one is especially untimely.

He pinch hit against the Cubs late in the makeup game on July 6th. He was called up when Sogard went on the DL.

When I watch Jungmann pitch I don't see an MLB pitcher. Depends on when you looked. Jungmann was solid for 15 or so starts just 2 years ago, and he's been very good at AAA this year. He's no prime prospect but he fits very well as a 3rd piece in a Gray trade as he could step into their rotation right now. Having a guy like that in the offer might help swing a deal in their direction or allow you too not give up quite as much with the top pieces. As far as his Brewer future, only if they fall too far behind and want to look at 2018 candidates in September.

You just cannot put Gray and Verlander in the same category or deGrom for that matter. Gray is just entering his prime and is pitching extremely well right now (3 ER allowed in last 4 starts). Verlander is well past his prime and not pitching well now. When fully healthy Gray's been the equal of deGrom if you consider he's been in the AL. deGrom would cost more in prospects if he were available (he's not) because he has 2 more years of control than Gray has not because his future is any more certain. Gray's 2014 and 2015 numbers were outstanding. He was injured in 2016 and is just now rounding into his 14-15 form. Gray might not get the Brewers to the playoffs this year, but he gives them a shot this year and next year which is something they weren't expecting, and if he performs well and the team doesn't, he'll still have considerable trade value where the Brewers can recover most of the value in prospects they surrender this year.

Timely 4 hit night from Taylor, the forgotten guy in the Brewer system who's been raking since his return. If he comes around, dealing Brinson wouldn't be as painful. He's ready to move on the AAA isn't he?

Or Oakland.

The Cubs stole Quintana. He'll be a stud in the NL. Still can't believe the Cubs got him without giving up a prospect above A ball.. Gray is not quite on his level but he's a prime big league starter. Rome is burning while Stearns is fiddling. The juice the Cubs got from the Quintana deal woke them up.

Cooper 3 for 4 tonight with 2 doubles (both rockets) and his first MLB RBI. He's setting in nicely. My hunch is that in 2-3 years this trade will look very onesided.

Hader: "I'm a real prospect aren't I?" Counsell: "Absolutely Josh, that's why we have you sitting out in the pen instead of pitching"

Pardon me if this was brought up in the game thread but Hader had thrown 14 pitches between Friday July 7th and Sunday July 16. Are you telling me Counsell was afraid to use him in the 6th inning yesterday? I understand not wanting to overwork a young arm, but really? That game was there to be taken. Every game is big now. Hader is a big league pitcher. He shouldn't need training wheels.

Cahill with another strong outing yesterday. If the Gray deal falls apart, the cheap rentals in SD look like a viable alternative to me. Cahill's numbers are very impressive and he won't cost a top prospect.

If he's not used in a deal or brought up earlier, Jungmann certainly will be back. I don't foresee an issue opening up a couple 40 man spots to add Wang and perhaps another player.

You give them a choice of any prospect, then you get 3 names that are untouchable. They make their 2nd selection, and then you get 10 more names to take off the board, and after their 3rd selection, you get another 10 untouchables. They end up with essentially the number 1, number 5, number 16, and number 27 in the system. Only caveat, the first two picks can't both be pitchers. Pretty simple.

I could see Jungmann having some value as the 3rd piece (a guy ready to replace Gray in Oakland's current rotation) in the deal to get Gray. Regardless, I'd say if he does make a start in the majors this year, it's less than 50-50 that it's with the Brewers.

Nelson has shown flashes of dominance every year he's been up. Sustaining it sometimes takes maturity. Shaw was a 9th round pick. He wasn't handed a job in the majors. He posted an .813 OPS as a 25 year old rookie in 2015 in 65 games. Now he's putting up numbers we haven't seen from a LH hitting 3rd baseman in Milwaukee since the heyday of the great Eddie Mathews. I'd say he's part of the core.

Agree. If the names being mentioned are the offer, the Cubs will swoop in and grab Gray too. it's going to take Brinson, Ortiz or Woodruff and one or two more guys outside the top ten and the Brewers should feel fortunate they didn't have to give up Hader too. The price of poker for a controlled starter is high. But remember if they aren't in the race next year at this time, they likely can get back 75% of what they gave up. That's how they have to look at it.

Relationships are important in baseball. Acquiring a guy who'd come in and feel comfortable, not just with the pitching coach, but with Vogt and Sogard as well seems like the right fit for a team where chemistry has been a big ingredient in it's success. Carfado wrote that the Brewers "are showing the most interest" in Gray. Stay tuned. With pitchers going down all over, it might behoove them to act soon. Heck maybe they could turn around and get a minor piece for Garza by month's end if Gray pushes him out.

Odd pickup. He is 30 and his OPS in the independent league was below 700. And he's another utility IF. Meanwhile the AAA team has no obvious 1B or OF for today's game. Agreed, why not just sign Halton and Gindl out of the Atlantic League?

The guys on most of the lists, Hader, Brinson, Burnes, Woodruff, are the guys who can help get the kind of return that can make a difference. I am fine with any one of those as long as it's just one from those four. I'd be okay with a Brinson/Ortiz package or a Burnes/Diaz package​ but not a Hader/Brinson or a Woodruff/Burnes.

Gray's allowed fewer earned runs in his last 4 starts than Davies allowed last night. By all accounts, he's rounding into his 2015 form which would make him every bit as valuable as Quintana. It's step up time for Stearns. He needs to get it done before the Cubs visit Miller Park in 2 weeks.

Awful lot of pitches for 2hits 1walk and only 5k. I'd take 6 shutout innings from my starter and take my chances with the pen any day. Besides he didn't face the opposing pitcher a couple of times.

Exactly. One does wonder if Suter who also has options falters in the next few starts, that they aren't better off with Hader in the rotation now that they have a lefty in the pen and the ability to recall Blazek too.

He could have done all that and still had a bunch of young players filtering into the team at the same time though. I looked at this Cubs team as one that was going to be a dominant team for the next 10 years or so mid season last year. Now I see it as one that is just going to have the typical 5 year window and a GM hoping he can stretch it with good moves. The franchise outlook has changed dramatically in the past calendar year. It won a World Series and I fully expect them to be in the hunt for at least one more over the next 4 years so it was a good move. But this certainly has helped the Brewers future as well. I don't really see how that is debatable given everything they have traded away with a focus on this 5 year window of Rizzo/Bryant. I agree with Danzig. The Cubs control their core players through 2021 and it's still a very young group. They have plenty of money to spend on FA. There will be 4 more drafts between then and now, and opportunities galore to add prospects. In short, they had no need for help from prospects and the guys they traded were all 2 years or more away from helping anyway. They like some of their low level arms. If they develop, they'll be all right. There's no guaranty the Brewers core will be good enough to take advantage of a Cub slippage 4-5 years from now anyway. The falloff this year was part hangover, but mainly the failure of the starting rotation and the off years from Schwarber, Russell and Zobrist. They just addressed the rotation. Is that enough? We need to hope their offense doesn't suddenly get rolling. Theo's made mistakes. The money spent on Heyward was a huge one. But big market teams can afford mistakes. I like this deal for them more so than the Torres for Chapman deal last year. Chapman was overkill and short term. They were probably good enough without him. Quintana fills a need for this year and beyond for a cost that didn't diminish the big league roster for at least 3 years.

FA in 2019 don't fit the term rentals. They could still be acquired and dealt at next year's deadline, though I don't think the Brewers' number one priority right now is bullpen help.

Could also be to give Phillips some starts in CF vs tough righthanders that Broxton likely would struggle with, along with a buffer for Braun's shaky health. Guerra was put on the DL and no corresponding move was made for his spot until this one. They still have 8 arms in the pen. So Rivera likely sticks until Sogard returns. Phillips gives them an extra bench player for a few days and a LH bat that they are short with Sogard out. When Guerra is activated, or another arm is, he'll go back down.