JohnBriggs12

What if he was just adequate as a catcher with that bat as sort of a poor man's Mike Piazza? It's going to be extremely interesting to see who ends up where. Will Weeks finally move to the OF? Will Hart move to CF? Will Gamel or even McGehee end up in RF? Will Hall end up in a platoon not at 3B but in CF? Who, if anyone, gets traded? Does McGehee's performance make them open to the idea of dealing Gamel and if so, who's the designated Fielder heir at 1B?

I have a strong inclination that Arizona is asking for McGehee in any deal that includes Lopez and Davis.

I guess we should look at this as practice. We didn't send Parra to the minors to work on his "stuff" - we sent him to learn how to recover and minimize damage when things go wrong.Practice?? Parra's down there to prove he belongs in the majors and help the Brewers. That means stringing together good starts. This type of start certainly pushes back his return (if indeed he ever makes it back).

We already have DeRosa on the team and his name is McGehee.Nice try guys but I don't think this acquisition can be minimized. Cards filled a big hole here. They did give up bullpen depth though and that might haunt them later this year. Brewers need for DeRosa was certainly lessened by McGehee's performance. While the Brewers could use an extra bat, the critical need is in the rotation. I sure hope McGehee is DeRosa. DeRosa is adequate in the OF. McGehee's bat has to play somewhere next year and RF looks to me to be the most logical spot.

Lucroy's bat has warmed up as well. He might not be the offensive threat Salome is, but he's got more walks (37) than strikeouts (35). The good news on Salome is that he's throwing out runners at a decent clip (38%). I think it's a safe bet that one or the other of those guys is going to make more than a token year end appearance before it's all over this season. They absolutely cannot bring Kendall back as anything other than a backup for 2010 and they need to know whether they have to find someone else.

Would you and others stop twisting my words? My initial post said "this looks like a team that will be selling in July". I didn't advocate selling now. In fact somewhere I posted they need to buy a guy or two now then if it doesn't work turn around and sell the same guy a month from now. It's been done. My comment on Escobar was based on if as I predict, they are out of it in July then it's a perfect time to see Escobar. How is that a false premise? What part of the word "if" is so confusing? That I occasionally go out on a limb with a negative prediction is based on the reality of what I'm watching. Sure there are ups and downs in seasons, but this team just doesn't have the starting pitching that either the Cardinals or the Cubs have. Would anyone here not rather have a top 3 of Carpenter, Wainwright and Piniero or Zambrano, Lilly and Dempster over Gallardo, Suppan and Looper? It's a no-brainer. I started this thread for one reason. So that whenever what appears to me to be inevitable happens, that fans take it in stride. It's not the end of the world, and there are positives that can help this team as it looks to the future.

Think Doug Melvin = Jon; Ben Sheets = Kate.

I'd take either Davis or Garland or both right now. Garland's turned it around this month (3.38 in June) and has 9 quality starts despite his high ERA and low K totals and Davis is Davis. He just won't give in to hitters even if it means walking guys and putting fans to sleep. Neither has gotten much run support in Arizona.

If Indians fans were reading this thread and hearing us balk at trading Alcides Escobar for Cliff Lee, I'm certain that they'd laugh in our faces. A defensive SS prospect who hasn't proven himself at AAA yet (Escobar) for the reigning AL CY Young Award winning ACE pitcher (Cliff Lee). I just don't see the Indians trading Cliff Lee this season. Their fans would probably revolt if they traded a reigning AL CY Young Award winner two seasons in a row (Sabathia), especially to the same team. First, Escobar isn't just a defensive SS. His career minor league BA is .293 with almost 2,500 professional AB's. That "he hasn't proved himself at AAA" is totally false and meaningless. Hanley Ramirez never played at AAA and had numbers at AA at the same age as Escobar that were roughly identical. Escobar is hitting .295/.340/.418 with 27 steals, 18 doubles and 4 triples in half a season at AAA. How is that unproven? No paulmolitor4 is absolutely right. The Brewers shouldn't trade Escobar. The Indians wouldn't have Sabathia now either. So why should the fact they got something for him bother their fans? I doubt they'll trade Lee this year so the point is moot anyway, but it's not because Escobar wouldn't be attractive. If they could ever construct a decent bullpen, they could contend next year.

I believe Braddock could jump 2 levels easily and set himself up to make a run next spring at the majors. I can understand in the days of free agency, arbitration etc, that it might be wise to hold back position players somewhat, but pitching is so scarce that I think you need to get talent up to the majors regardless of age or experience because pitchers in general have a much shorter shelf life. Braddock's the same age as Vida Blue was when Blue won 24 games for Oakland in 1971. I'm not saying Braddock is Vida Blue, but Blue is an example that a guy at 21 just might be as good as he's ever going to get. As for Butler, I'd like to see him get a September call up if the Brewers are out of it. He needs to be in the rotation discussion for 2010. He's originally a 2nd round pick so I assume he's got stuff that projects to the majors.

Nobody's expecting teams would trade a number one starter, but Hart has value. He's a guy that's put up a .892 OPS as recently as 2007 and he's been a 20-20 guy the for 2 straight seasons and he's not eligible for FA for a few more years.

Why keep going there? The problem wasn't the innings but his propensity to run up pitch counts because he couldn't get easy outs. He exhibited that same weakness this year. The "most people" you refer to are those that wanted him to succeed and looked for an excuse when he didn't or were just plain wrong.

If they added a guy this week via trade, there's no reason they couldn't turn around and sell him before August 1st if the team continues to flounder. bklynbrewcrew is right on the mark although the signs that Parra wouldn't cut it were there late last year. Looper was an okay signing if you're looking for a number 5 but paying anything for a number 5 isn't usually money well spent. Some of us were suggesting dealing Hart for quite some time. Melvin never seemed interested in dealing a Brewer produced product like Hart or Hardy. I suspect ego played a part. I think he loved hearing people in baseball talk about all the home grown products the Brewers had. I think in retrospect, they also made a mistake in not returning Villanueva to the rotation this year and using the money spent on a mediocre starter like Looper on a solid reliever instead. Villanueva was very solid in his starting trials in 06 and 07. His struggles early in 08 (remember he only got 9 starts and a few of those were fine) were no doubt due in part to it being his first time in a rotation from the start of the year and basically knowing he had to prove himself. I think he would have been much more confident this year after his bullpen success last year. After all, other than Gallardo, Villanueva has the most experience starting in the majors of anyone under the age of 26 in the entire organization. To basically give up on him ever starting is shortsighted especially with so few real high level pitching prospects. My suggestion would be that they call KC. Juan Cruz has been a big disappointment and they'd probably listen to any offer for him. Then I'd put Cruz in the Brewer pen and hope a return to the NL revives him. I'd then send down Villanueva for 2-3 AAA starts to stretch out his arm and bring him back in mid July in the Brewer rotation.

Reality is the Brewers have the worst starting pitching in the division. Reality is the Cubs offense which has underachieved all year is starting to wake up. Reality is the Cardinals are the most balanced team in the division. Either the Cubs or Cards are capable of taking off at any time and burying the Brewers. The division is up for grabs but the Brewers could be out of it in a month unless their pitching turns it around now. So the Brewers are only 1 1/2 games out now? Wasn't the 04 team right there in early July too? The standings mean nothing. It's what kind of team you have to compete the rest of the way. The Brewers starting rotation is in shambles.

Let's face it. Rickie Weeks is done for the year. Manny Parra has pitched himself out of the league at least for now. Bush and Looper are way too hittable. Suppan is Suppan. The next 3 weeks they are facing the top teams in the NL. This looks like a team that will be selling in July, not buying. I'm not trying to be negative but it's looking like a year where aside from some nice individual accomplishments, the last couple months peoples attention will turn to the Packers. Hoffman is the obvious one to dangle but even he's been shaky in the few opportunities he's been needed lately. Cameron should have some value too if he can emerge from his recent slump. Kendall might interest a team in the right situation. Hardy's value has obviously slipped but if the team is out of it isn't it a perfect time to let Escobar get used to major league pitching?

Sure they do. They currently have 8 arms in the bullpen. One of those (likely McClung) will be summoned to start. After that, the next one depends on which route they choose to go. They could go the minor league veteran route in Burns. His numbers at AAA and in his one appearence are worthy of a shot. They could also try to pull the plug on a deal now which may be hard to do but not impossible. Or they could go the route that was commonly used back in the day. For lack of a better term, lets call it "give a kid a chance". That is, take a guy who ideally you'd like to have develop longer in the minors and give him a shot now. Butler, 24, and Cody, 25 aren't kids, but both have performed well this season.Anundsen, by all accounts is 2 years away but on track to be a major league pitcher. He throws strikes. Maybe give him an early shot. A lot of you will scoff at this last option but I suggest you look back at some great pitchers. Catfish Hunter was barely 19 when he came to the majors in the 60's. That wasn't all that uncommon back then.

In 2006, Villanueva was 1-2 with a 3.93 ERA and 1.15 WHIP in 6 starts. In 2007, he was 2-2 with a 2.06 ERA and 1.31 WHIP in 6 starts. He was given 9 starts in 2008. Who knows how well he would have done had they given him the number of starts that Parra got this year. I totally disagree that Villanueva doesn't have enough stuff. He has 4 major league quality pitches, an 88-90 mph fastball, a decent slider, a curveball that he can get over and one of the better changeups in the league. His whole key is spotting his fastball. When he spots his fastball, it doesn't matter whether he's starting or relieving, he gets big league hitters out because it sets up his out pitches, his change and his slider. Conversely, when he's not, he doesn't.

June: .130/.277/.222 with 24 K's in 54 AB's. Season with RISP: .115/.333/.154. Now I understand what a great clubhouse presence Mike is and if anything his defense this year is better than it was last year but at age 36 I think he needs more days off than he's getting. Right now he's a huge hole in the lineup.

I don't get the "he's too valuable out of the pen" argument for any guy. If your rotation has collapsed, having a great bullpen is of zero value. Besides it's a lot easier to replace the 6th or 7th guy in the pen than it is finding a reliable starter. By the way, why isn't Smith being used? McClung was okay as a starter last year. Villanueva could start (he's got the multiple pitches to be a starter) but he's not stretched out enough so unless he goes down to Nashville for a couple of starts, I don't see that happening. Difelice needs to be stretched out too but he's become basically a one pitch pitcher so that usually works only one time through the order.

Where in my post did I say Suppan-type? Or put another way, when did Suppan become synonymous with proven major league starter? The guy I have in mind is Washburn. Washburn's career ERA is a half run lower than Suppans pitching exclusively in the AL. This year his ERA is more than a run lower than Suppans Plus he's lefthanded which is desirable for a Parra replacement. We saw this week what pitching in the AL means. Even Sabathia is human in the AL. Penny is another guy to consider even though he's right handed but he's better than Suppan too.

The Giants have some fine young pitching at AA they could use to get a bat. Alderson and Baumgarner are no doubt untouchable, but Henry Sosa could draw interest.

I disagree that Hall's salary has any impact on Gamel's playing time. It's Hall's defense that plays. Until Gamel hits or fields well enough in his limtied opportunities to overcome Hall's glove he will continue to have his playing time limited.Gamel has to hit well enough to overcome his own glove like Braun did in 07.. He hasn't so far. Not that his glove's been terrible or that he needs to be Braun-like on offense, but he does need to hit. If he goes down, McGehee and Counsell and to a lesser extent his likely roster replasment, Iribarren benefit, not so much Hall.

The amount of front line pitching that could be available has been shrinking daily. The best bet considering the market and the guys the Brewers are willing to deal is the mid tier starting pitcher market that includes guys like Washburn. But even deals like that are on hold until more teams fall out of races.

Unless he has a big series against Detroit or unless McGehee has to go on DL, I'd send him down for the simple reason I don't think Macha will use him enough and he's not done enough to force them to keep him or to play him every day. He'll have over 90 PA by the end of the week. That's a pretty fair first test. It's not that he has failed his test but that he didn't show he's going to rake right out of the box. Remember he's only played 38 games at AAA, so he could use both the extra experience and he'd be playing everyday which is key to his defensive development. Give him 5-6 more weeks at Nashville and re-visit the idea. It's also not like they don't have a logical roster replacement in Iribarren. I have no problem with Iribarren sharing the 2B job with Counsell vs. righthanders with McGehee playing 3B vs. righthanders and sliding over to 2B vs. lefthanders. As bad as Hall's been, he's actually been making a little better contact lately and I still think at some point, he's going to have at least a mini revival like he did in 08 when he torched the Cardinals in July and Hall's saved them a lot of runs with his defense. Plus we're all better off finding something we like in Hall because he's signed through next year and not worth anything in a trade.

The Brewers have already been burned by assuming Parra would be a solid member of their rotation if not a number 2. Throwing a guy will identical issues "against the wall" falls into the category of fool me twice, shame on me. They are better off with a guy who might not have the alluring upside, but who's had a proven track record. Teams out of contention can afford to "throw guys at the wall". Brewers need stability.