danzig6767

I think most potential buyers want to wait as long as possible before making an important trade given things could change their thinking in those last two weeks or so before the deadline.

No question pitchers are a bigger risk, but injuries can hit anyone. Look at Profar with Texas. Not long ago he was the number one prospect in baseball and now he may never amount to anything.

Watching them pitch over a more extended time frame like pretty much any other pitcher.

Who knows at this point what exactly his future holds, way to early. That said, i'm just thrilled that Jungmann is pitching so well so far given his minor league stats to this point had been pedestrian at best for a guy drafted 12th overall. I do wonder though if there might be something to him focusing better by being in the majors? Not only is his living his childhood dream by being in the majors, he's no long pitching in Colorado, getting frustrated, and wondering if he'd ever reach that dream. Or this great start to his MLB career could be mostly a fluke. I don't know what to think except being extremely happy to see what he's doing so far compared to the pessimistic expectations i had for him.

I get not just giving Segura away, but he's back hitting like crap and we has SS depth in the minors. He should be shopped.

I think you are understating the importance of bullpens in today's version of baseball. Hell, just look at the playoffs the last 4-5 years. For so long the adage was you had to have really good to great starting pitching to have any chance to win in the playoffs. Yea the Giants had Bumgarner last season, but he was an extreme outlier in his insane greatness in those playoffs. Even with that, the rest of the Giants starters struggled. It was Bumgarner and his historic effort alone, along with their pen who won that series vs KC. When the Cardinals won the title in 2011, their rotation was very mediocre overall in the playoffs, but LaRussa was masterful at riding his good bullpen for much of the playoffs on the way to a ring. When Boston won it all, their bullpen was huge throughout the playoffs as often their rotation struggled besides Lester. After Lester and Ortiz, Uehara was arguably their third most important player in the playoffs. Last year, if not for Bumgarner, the Royals could have won it all as their dominant bullpen was not only a massive factor in the playoff success, but also in them simply making the playoffs. Clearly teams need to have enough good starting pitching over such a long 162 game season for any hopes of simply making the playoffs because a bad rotation is a death sentence to a MLB season. That said, have a pretty good offense, at least a solid overall rotation with one upper tier starter, and a great bullpen, your team can make the playoffs today and once there, have as good a chance as any team to win it all. The days of needing more than one really good starter to have any chance to win in the playoffs are mostly over so long as a team has a very good pen and a productive offense. Years ago teams would want to wear down the starter to get to the pen in the playoffs, but today if a team has a great bullpen, often an offense is better off with a starter in longer so long as a dominant ace isn't on the mound. Plus, with off days in the playoffs and the season ending which combined allows managers no longer having to worry as much about over use of the bullpen, they can use them earlier if needed and more often. So a starter is struggling or just mediocre, a manager can simply yank the guy in say the 4th/5th inning as LaRussa often did and turn instead to a stable of sub-3 or 4 ERA bullpen pitchers to keep his team in the game.

He wasn't throwing anyone under the bus, he's simply frustrated. Listening to Lucroy, he just badly wants to win, but can clearly see that given the terrible record, trades likely will happen for prospects and thus some degree of rebuilding will take place, so he'd be very open to the thought of being traded to a contender vs staying on a team likely headed for a rebuilding phase. Hard to blame a competitive guy like him at all. So whether it's at the deadline or in the offseason where a fair enough offer was presented, moving Lucroy would be in the best interest of the team and him. He's a valuable commodity though and shouldn't be moved in haste just to trade him, especially given his super team friendly contract. Any trade involving Lucroy needs to bring appropriate value in return.

Yep The Brewers haven't been able to draft and develop pitching all the way back till Bando was allowed to be GM for way to long under the Selig's. Then he was followed by Taylor, Zduriencik, and Seid. None of whom could do a good job either at drafting/developing pitching compared to other organizations. It's truly amazing when you think about it. Just consider the countless amount of pitchers that those four guys drafted and how few actually became not only quality starters, also how few simply just became quality relief pitchers. By simple odds, it almost defies statistical logic that so few pitchers panned out. Had those scouting directors threw darts while blindfolded at available pitchers on their draft boards, they probably would have had more pan out than picking pitchers as they did. I get that the team has seemed to have some bad luck with injuries to drafted pitchers in the early rounds, but many other teams managed to land good pitchers in rounds outside say the first two. Overall though, it's been a complete train wreck for decades now when it comes to drafting/developing pitching. This has to eventually change. Pitching is such a valuable and expensive commodity that small market teams who have to regularly buy pitching in free agency because they can't manage to draft their own pitching, it's so hard overcome. Sure you can acquire quality young pitching at times via trades and other avenues, but in general, small market teams have to draft/develop their own and the Brewers have been abysmal at this for a really long time.

I understand that the draft is different in baseball than the other major sports. One really need not look beyond the length of time required to reach the "big club" in the major sports to paint a picture of just how different they are. The top pick in the NBA, or the NFL, are with the big club immediately. The top draft pick in the Majors can take multiple years to make the show, if ever. Ultimately, Melvin determines who the scouts are, and who the director of scouting is. Much like a head chef picks everybody in their kitchen, Melvin assembles his team. If the man responsible for buying the groceries used in menu preparation picks rotten food, who ultimately is to blame? The man screwing up the buying, or the idiot who put him in a position of importance in the first place? Regardless if it's Doug Melvin sending the names to the Commissioner, or one of his envoys, the entire direction of this franchise rests with one man. To imply that the buck stops with anybody but the GM would be disingenuous. I didn't say anything disingenuous if you actually had read what i said "Simply to much for a baseball GM to do along with running a big league club, which is why scouting directors in baseball are so incredibly important. Make a bad hire as happened with Seid and the impact to a farm system can be devastating. It was arguably the biggest mistake Melvin made in his whole tenure as GM and it not only badly hurt the team, it hurt him as a general manager when the minor league talent pipeline mostly dried up." As you should have seen, i said that hiring Seid was arguably the biggest mistake Melvin made in his whole tenure as GM. That hire did serious damage to the farm system as Seid made to many mistakes in the draft compared to good picks.

Do I need to provide a list of the first round draft picks taken under Melvin that will never play an inning for the Brewers? Evan Frederickson, Eric Arnett, Kentrail Davis, Kyle Heckathorn, Dylan Covey. From 2006 to 2010, a five year span, we had nine first round and first round supplemental picks. All those players are either out of baseball, or playing in other organizations save one, Jeremy Jeffress, who we traded away, and eventually got back. Since Ryan Braun was drafted in 2005, Taylor Jungman (drafted in the first round of 2011) was the first first rounder to make it to the big club. You cannot run a small market team and continually whiff like that, and be successful. Melvin has. What about the other guy drafted in the first round of 2011, Jed Bradley? Yeah, don't count on him being up any time soon, with his 7-9 ERA at AAA. 2012? Mitch Haniger is gone for....who? I forget. Clint Coulter might make it. Victor Roache has great power, not much else. So maybe one of three in some way contribute to the Brewers. 2013? Oh, wait. We had no first round draft pick, because Kyle Lohse needed to be a Brewer, Lohse with his touchdown ERA this year. Great. I guess one way to make sure your first rounders don't bomb is not to have any, huh? So, the last decade of Doug Melvin's draft history rests on two classes, 2014 and 2015. Let's hope some of those guys end up being the real deal. Melvin certainly has his share of flaws and it clearly is time for a change at GM, but when it comes to the draft at least, where is the evidence that he was the guy selecting the draft picks instead of the various scouting directors over the years? From what i remember reading, Melvin would communicate with the scouting directors as all GM's do, but it was those guys who actually evaluated all of the high school and college talent who made the selections. When it comes to the draft, it sure seems like the biggest mistake Melvin made was hiring Seid to replace Zduriencik, not that Melvin was running the drafts instead of letting the scouting director and cross checkers run the drafts. They once had a behind the scenes show of the Brewers draft and Melvin was in the room, but it was Seid making every pick. Baseball is a different animal when it comes to the draft compared to other sports like football and basketball. There are 40 rounds compared to 7 and 2 in the other sports. High school kids across the country along with college kids need to be scouted. Then there are all of the various all-star events. Simply to much for a baseball GM to do along with running a big league club, which is why scouting directors in baseball are so incredibly important. Make a bad hire as happened with Seid and the impact to a farm system can be devastating. It was arguably the biggest mistake Melvin made in his whole tenure as GM and it not only badly hurt the team, it hurt him as a general manager when the minor league talent pipeline mostly dried up. Hopefully whoever the new GM is, that guy ads some fresh new thinking to our front office and almost as importantly, Attanasio finally chooses to stop interjecting himself as much into roster construction and team direction. I get that he owns the team and thus is free to do as he wishes, but that GM hire will know more about baseball than Attanasio can ever envision that he himself knows. Let the new GM do the job he's being hired to do.

Yea, my guess is that signing Pujols was more a decision made by Moreno. I gotta think most GM's would understand that contract was going to be an albatross, it was only a matter of how soon, not if. In pro sports, the degree of involvement by owners is a huge wildcard. Some owners are willing to mostly set a budget and let their GM make the decisions and some owners want to be much more involved, playing the role of both owner and part time GM. Here with the Brewers, it seems very clear that Attanasio likes being involved with both setting a direction each year and negotiating with the agents of free agents he wants to sign, be it Suppan, Loshe, Garza, K-Rod, etc.

I'd trade Segura before wasting his defensive gifts as a shortstop by playing him at thirdbase. Defensive Gifts? He isn't even that good of a SS. I'd peg him some what above average, but nothing to write home about. You have to be gifted to be an above average major league fielder at arguably the most important defensive position on the field. Now i could potentially get behind playing him at secondbase if Arcia were at shortstop next season, but wouldn't waste his range at thirdbase. He could be traded instead to a team who needs a shortstop, where his ability to play that position increases his overall value as a player.

I really hope that Nelson can develop a fairly reliable changeup. Same for Peralta. That's such a great pitch to make hitters have to think instead of mainly just looking for hard stuff like fastball/slider.

I'd trade Segura before wasting his defensive gifts as a shortstop by playing him at thirdbase.

It does seem like as each year goes by, there are fewer major trades before the deadline, especially those types involving teams giving up big time prospects. In the past, trade deadline time seemed to fairly often involve quite a few trades and including big names with multiple quality prospects going the other way. Now when trade deadlines come around, there are countless rumors as has always been the case, but fewer actually happen, particularly major trades. Trade deadline time has tended to become much more of a yawnfest than exciting flurries of actual moves. I think there are two reasons for this. 1. The rule change involving draft pick compensation. Teams are simply less inclined to give up a lot for a three month rental when they won't get at least a draft pick if/when that rental bolts after the season. 2. Most teams really highly value quality prospects today, especially high quality pitching prospects compared to years ago. With the huge rise in player salaries, prospects who pan out well are so incredibly valuable given their cheap paycheck, even to the higher revenue franchises. So sure, here and there contenders will still give up multiple quality prospects for an available veteran at the deadline, but it sure seems to happen less now. Front line starters will always be in demand as teams push for the playoffs and a guy like Hamels especially might be able to draw a bidding war between multiple teams since he's really good and isn't a rental, but i wouldn't be surprised at all if there is another very rumor filled lead up to a then pretty uneventful trade deadline overall for baseball. Hope i'm wrong though and the Brewers can swing some impactful trades.

Build off this how?

Marco Estrada with back to back starts into the 8th inning with a no hitter going, including a perfect game today before giving up a hit.

No way would they trade all three of them

K-Rod isn't valuable enough to get anyone to even consider taking on Garza's contract with the way he's pitching.

Legally that's not exactly true. Logistically, it would be even more of a challenge and a ridiculous waste of time. Oddly ironic and pretty hysterical that ARod's 3000th hit is caught by a guy like the Happy Youngster on steroids. What are the odds?? It is pretty bizarre that guy catches the ball. That ball could have landed anywhere else but into his hands.

I know that the Pirates have good farm system and especially some highly ranked pitchers, i was just talking about their rotation this year and the randomness which can happen in baseball for a number of teams in each given year. A baseball season for many teams is often both predictable and unpredictable, with luck/randomness playing varying degrees of influence. So that's a factor why some teams end up doing quite a bit better than most expected and some are quite a bit worse. It's more over multiple seasons where good or bad fortune gets washed away and overall good decision making rises up. That's why when i responded to that guy's post about when the Brewers could be good enough to compete for a playoff berth, i don't necessarily think it has to be some long drawn out process if a quality new front office is hired and Attanasio allows that front office to do their jobs without the owner playing a quasi-GM role. Have a plan, make more smart decisions than bad ones, and draft well, things can sometimes change for the better quicker than expected in baseball. Luck helps also on the injury front and having say a couple of lowish profile pickups exceed expectations by quite more than you could have hoped for.

As much as it would be very refreshing to finally put together a high quality rotation mostly anchored by draft picks, there can be a variety of ways to put together a high quality staff. Look at the Pirates as an example and the great pitching by them so far. For as much credit as they've gotten for building through the draft, the only guy in their rotation who was drafted by the team is Cole and he wasn't exactly a guy unearthed by savvy scouting other teams missed on. Cole was picked first overall. A.J Burnett and his 1.89 ERA is 38 years old and was signed off the scrap heap after a bad year for the Phillies. Liriano is another free agent signing. Charlie Morton and his 1.62 ERA is a 32 year old sinkerball pitcher with solid but nothing special stats over the previous five years. Locke was picked up in a trade, but has been mediocre since. Worley is a soft tossing junk ball pitcher. We'll see if that Pirates staff can keep pitching well over the rest of the season, but it goes to show that in baseball sometimes a team need a sprinkling in of luck to go along with skill when putting together a team. Luck just that multiple guys simply out-perform your realistic expectations before a season starts and that plays a role in being a high 80's to 90 plus win team. Hopefully the Brewers clean house in the front office, Attanasio stops being part owner/part GM, and maybe in say two years from now, a mix of young guys performing well, a few savvy pickups via trades and/or free agency, and some luck mixed in allows the Brewers to legitimately compete again for a playoff berth sooner than many fans might expect.

Not surprising at all. The guys that we're willing to sell other teams don't want and the pieces other teams actually do want aren't available. Who knows if Attanasio would be willing to trade Gomez, but it sure would be nice to see him get healthy and playing well so that if Attanasio actually would be willing to trade an asset of real value, that Carlos is healthy and productive enough to draw serious interest. That would just be our luck. Attanasio finally becomes willing to trade a guy like Gomez, but then Carlos struggles with injuries up to the deadline. It also would be nice to see Lucroy get really hot on the slim chance Attanasio would be willing to trade Gomez and/or Luc.

Pipe dream is being kind to think the Mets would trade both of Syndergaard & Wheeler. Plus, Ramirez and Lohse have been pure garbage all season long and make a lot of money.

I think it is frustrating only if you want to be frustrated. A good manager will just write down the out on his scorecard and move on. A lot of his stellar plays come with his aggressiveness. You are going to run into some outs, but in my opinion it is well worth it. No one comes out when he makes a stellar aggresive play...only when he makes a bad one. No kidding If the Brewers had more players near as good as Gomez, even with his brainfarts, they'd be in contention for a playoff berth, not buried in last place. Many players have differing faults and for Carlos, he's always made mistakes running the bases by thinking his speed will allow him to take an extra base which sometimes isn't the smart play. To believe benching him for a game or two will shut off and stop that part of the brain which makes Gomez do those things is very likely wishful thinking.